Kurkistan Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I fear that this might be lost in the noise, so I'd like to bring some new WoB to everyone's attention: Source: Q: At the very end of WoR, Dalinar touches a Shardblade and it screams at him. Should that particular Blade have been safe?? A: No it should not have. It's a clue that something has happened. There are other clues that something is wrong with what the story you've been told is. Q: Did Hoid switch out the blades? A: Hoid did not switch out the blades, but good question. So that. I suppose we were all too quick to assume that Hoid was carrying around a second sword. And now I must say that I'm scared. Hoid might not be the most fuzzy of people, but I generally trust his intentions, or at the very least his general inactivity so far as potentially derailing plots and murdering main characters with super-weapons goes. I would have far preferred for Hoid to have added "Honorblade" to his list of powers and then called it a day, versus the disturbing possibility that some unknown party now possesses it. Alternatively, as I believe someone suggested on another thread, the Blade could be misty at the moment and Hoid still put in a regular Shardblade so that no one would be tempted to do evil unto Taln in order to get his. Edited March 17, 2014 by Kurkistan 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm really hoping that Taln still has his Honorblade and he just managed to dissolve it at some point after he woke up in prison... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm really hoping that Taln still has his Honorblade and he just managed to dissolve it at some point after he woke up in prison... Where did the other Shardblade come from in that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) That IS the problem with the scenario. Hoid placed it, or Amaram tricked Dalinar, maybe? I know they're a stretch, but I got nothing better. Edit to make more sense. Edited March 17, 2014 by RShara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted March 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hoid? I don't doubt that he's bonded one or two in his quest for Power. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 Well, even if Hoid didn't switch them, that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have the Honorblade. He may have taken the Honorblade and somebody else provided the double. It might even have been Dalinar. His son came into a bunch of extra blades recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's possible (likely, even) that Taln still has his Honorblade, it's just not summoned. Wit or someone else provided a Shardblade for people to think the 'madman' obtained so they wouldn't kill Taln for his Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PudgyNinja Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's possible (likely, even) that Taln still has his Honorblade, it's just not summoned. Wit or someone else provided a Shardblade for people to think the 'madman' obtained so they wouldn't kill Taln for his Blade. If Taln still has his Honorblade, that could explain his ability to snatch a dart out of the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veil Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 If Taln still has his Honorblade, that could explain his ability to snatch a dart out of the air. And it would bring me back to my gut reaction, which was "Kaladin vs. Amaram: Surgebinder Style." I'd dismissed the idea (for now, anyway) because it didn't seem like Amaram had access to the Honorblade... but if Taln still has it (or if someone other than Hoid or Dalinar got it offscreen), then maybe we can still see that epic showdown. Amaram does seem to be rising in the ranks, from some random bastard Kaladin once knew to Sadeas' flunkie to a significant antagonist in his own right. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see Kaladin give Amaram the beating he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Thorn Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 The Idea that Wit left the blade to save Taln's life really strikes a chord with me. Says he is not just collecting power for powers sake. Amaram killed his own men in his lust for a shardblade for the greater good. And one of the Heralds he started the apocalypse to bring back is likely only around because a someone else decided to leave one around as a decoy to protect him during his madness. And now, just maybe, said Herald can discover Amarams true nature, and kill him. For the extra irony. *Fingers crossed* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I wonder who else could have had access to the Honorblade. I don't think Amaram has it - Dalinar is quite certain he had bonded with "the madman's" Blade, so the Honorblade must have vanished before that little fiasco. But Taln had it when he appeared before the gates of Kholinar - so it must have been swapped sometime between his appearance and Dalinar's trick. This is quite the time period we know nothing about, but I believe we can narrow it down a little. Rereading Taln's interlude, in the scene where Bordin first arrives in the warcamps and meets Dalinar, Papa Kholin says: Where did you get the Shardblade, madman? Tell me. Most Blades are accounted for through the generations, their lineage and history recorded. This one is completely unknown. From whom did you take it? The fact that Dalinar doesn't know the ancestry of Blade (and he probably either knows or can have Navani research every known Blade), combined with how Bordin doesn't remark on the Blade looking different, leads me to believe one of three things: The Honorblade was switched before Bordin got to see it. Nothing suggests that he was on guard duty on the gates when Taln cut through them, so there must have been a time window between Taln's appearance and Bordin's arrival at the gates (presumably after one of the guardsmen there fetched him) during which the whereabouts of the Honorblade were unknown. If someone had switched it then and there, with another unaccounted for Shardblade, then Bordin would've assumed that the Shardblade on the scene was Taln's. He then drove the Herald to the warcamps, sharing the first few days of the trip with Hoid, met with Dalinar, made his report, and Dalinar put his plan into motion (he tells Bordin that he is going to need him for something related to the Blade). The Honorblade was switched sometime after Bordin got to see it, but before Dalinar saw it. If Dalinar had seen the actual Honorblade, he would've also noticed that the one he summons when he confronts Amaram is not the same one - and while that particular scene is from Kaladin's point of view, and Dalinar could've just went with it without remarking on the different Blade, I find this very unlikely. In this scenario, the Blade must have been switched somewhere on the road - and if Hoid didn't do it, the only other suspect is Bordin himself. For this to work, however, Bordin must have taken the Honorblade for himself, bonded with it (and that's a can of worms of its own, because I believe we have a WoB that Honorblades cannot be bonded with), and then procured the second, unaccounted for, Shardblade to present to Dalinar. I kind of like the "Bordin is a double agent / traitor" vibe of this theory, but it just feels so very implausible to me... Finally, the Blade Dalinar saw when Bordin arrived was the actual Honorblade. It means Dalinar stashed it somewhere and then procured some other Shardblade that he actually bonded with and gave to Bordin to hide and eventually Amaram to. I like this theory too, but there are obvious holes in it. Most notably, why would Dalinar go through all the trouble of stashing the Honorblade - which, to him, was just another Shardblade - and then planting another one in its place? Long story short, scenario #1 is the only one I could see happening, but there is virtually no support for it, and that bothers me. I can't imagine where else the Honorblade would be, but I also can't imagine why it would go missing when and where it did. I think I might ask Brandon if it's actually possible for us to divine the location of the Honorblade given what we've seen in the book... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 A good analysis, Argent. While your at it asking Brandon questions about the Honorblade, could you please get some clarity on this "Honorblades can't be bonded" WoB? Something smells off about it, and I fear that we really must have misunderstood Brandon on that point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I'll see if I can smuggle the question in. I am probably going to post a list of questions I am considering in the next day or two, see if forum discussions can help me narrow them down a little. I definitely want to ask for hints about figuring out the Alethi glyph writing system... But this is all stuff for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think Dalinar might of switched it. Even if he thought Taln was just a mad man i can't imagine Dalinar robbing him.. or Dalinar might not be suited for the blade? So it takes a different form? I read that you cant' bond an Honorblade it has to be given. I think i'll sit this one out till you guys come up with a theory that i can pounce on.... don't feel like theorizing on a Tuesday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kier Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 MMm mmm MMm..... Maybe Nalan or another of the Heralds took it in that time period. If there was someone that could come up in a breif period and switch out Talns Honorblade with an unknown shardblade that is who I would suspect. However, there is no evidence to support that, and I can't really think of a reason for Nalan or any other Herald to go take Talns Blade..mmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I think Dalinar might of switched it. Even if he thought Taln was just a mad man i can't imagine Dalinar robbing him.. From Dalinar's point of view, he wouldn't be doing anything wrong. 1.) The blade isn't bonded to the "madman", or Dalinar wouldn't have been able to bind it to himself. 2.) Dalinar's probably convinced that the "madman" gained the blade in an inappropriate fashion. Meaning that it doesn't really belong to the "madman" anyway. 3.) Letting crazy people have weapons isn't a very good idea - particularly when the weapon in question is a shardblade. 4.) If the "madman" suddenly comes to his senses and gives a reasonable answer regarding where the blade came from, Dalinar can always give it back. And in the meantime, no one else can steal the blade (which is a definite concern if it's just left laying around). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant_thoughts Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Crazy thought that I haven't seen mentioned, Brandons answer makes me think that instead of switching blades maybe he switched the madman himself. Granted I know very little about the heralds or taln in particular, but his repetitive loop of info and willingness to be kept in captivity by naive people who don't grasp the implications of his return, as opposed to showing a little surgebinding to get everyone's attention make me suspicious of misdirection. But this may be better than hiding his return bc it may allow some chance of getting people to take the desolation seriously. I'll admit that the end when he catches the dart it made me second guess my theory. Then I thought if it was an act then that was how the impostor became so hyperalert when we know hr had been in a stupor since returning to roshar. We know worldhopping and various cosmere magic systems r at hoods disposal. Hr shows his mastery of illusion when he tells kaladin the story. He effectively makes him see as he wishes. This could b similar just on a grander scale. Maybe this faux-Taln is roshar's version of a kandra. I know its crazy, but this mystery is more than a simple switching of swords I'm sure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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