Konn

Is Eshonai dead?

49 posts in this topic

So, I haven't found this question discussed anywhere on the site. Last we heard from Eshonai she was pushed down a chasm by Adolin at the final confrontation with the Parshendi in the WoR. Here is the extract from the book:

         "His shove threw her over the plateau's edge. He felt Eshonai's panic, heard her shout, as she was dropped into the open blackness" (pp. 1011).

Given the storms raging/ building, at the time, we can expect that the chasms wasn't and wouldn't be very hospitable place to be for the coming hours, and given that Shardplates behave like other armor in water, it probably won't be particularly useful in saving her life. So, going on that I am assuming she is dead.

But, I have three small questions that make me ask whether she might somehow be alive after all.
1. We know that Esonai, based on postings from other people here, that she will have the flashbacks in book 4 (I think), and while Mr. S has said that (also based on postings from other people here) that the person didn't need to be alive to have flashbacks, might this be a factor making it more likely that she survived?
2. And, related, there has been some suggestions on the forum that the the 10 flashback persons are related to the 10 orders of KR, although Mr. S apparently has considered giving someone two flashback books, e.g. Kaladin, which would suggest that there is no relationship between the 10 books and the 10 orders of KR. However, if there indeed is a link between them, that would mean that Eshonai somehow has to be become a KR, which would require her to still be alive (okay, this wasn't really a question at all).
3. In the ending of the WoR, there is no mention, as far as I can remember, of Eshonai, or speculations of what has happened to her. Given the value of shard plates/swords, said to be worth more than a kingdom, isn't it strange that people weren't running to the chasms to find and claim them? Or, do you guys reckon that this is all being taken care of in the background with Mr. S not wanting to use space in the ending of the book for such trivial matters?

So, basically, what I am saying is that she is not mentioned after falling down the chasm, combined with the fact that she has a flashback chapter, and that I am uncertain about how useful a shard plate and sword might be for falling into and getting out of/ surviving in a chasm during a storm while in stormform. What do you guys think, is it pure nonsense from my part, or might she still be alive, somehow?

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I firmly believe she's alive, and that we'll see her fight back against the stormform monster she's become. That's in my land of Roshar of course. No idea if it'll happen in Brandon's or not :D

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I think that she's alive, and that the plate/stormform will have saved her life, but the trauma will have forced the voidspren out of her, so she'll be back to how she was before.  Or possibly in dullform/parshmen until she rediscovers herself.

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Given the value of shard plates/swords, said to be worth more than a kingdom, isn't it strange that people weren't running to the chasms to find and claim them?

 

No, it's not strange. They were running for their lives with the highstorm and everstorm clashing right where they were. She most likely survived the fall as stormform is stronger and she had Shardplate, but unless she somehow became a full Voidbringer or something I can't imagine her surviving what happened. Kal saw rocks tossed hundreds of feet in the air, no Plate could save her from that. But i think she discovered some new form that allowed her to live. She's far too interesting to die so soon.

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"A dynamic character with an ability to survive certain death, and a questionable death scene leaving no corpse? Face it, we'll never see her again!"

 

Eshonai actually being dead would be the bigger surprise. From a narrative standpoint it would make no sense, since her interludes raise more questions than they answer, and no one else is in a position to resolve them (except possibly Rlain to a lesser degree).

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He just fell out the third-story window, plummeting toward certain doom. Of course he'll live!

 

But seriously, a stormform in full Shardplate falling a couple hundred feet? Highly unlikely to be fatal. Now, the storm itself was pretty dangerous, but I have great faith in her problem-solving abilities.

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I'll just say that it never even occurred to me that she might have died until I saw people asking about it.

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No, it's not strange. They were running for their lives with the highstorm and everstorm clashing right where they were. She most likely survived the fall as stormform is stronger and she had Shardplate, but unless she somehow became a full Voidbringer or something I can't imagine her surviving what happened. Kal saw rocks tossed hundreds of feet in the air, no Plate could save her from that. But i think she discovered some new form that allowed her to live. She's far too interesting to die so soon.

 

I realize that they wouldn't start searching immediately, but, we did see some of the aftermath, settling into the tower and such, so I would assume that it would be natural to start searching for the shard plate and sword as soon as possible during that time.

 

But seriously, a stormform in full Shardplate falling a couple hundred feet? Highly unlikely to be fatal. Now, the storm itself was pretty dangerous, but I have great faith in her problem-solving abilities.

I am not expecting the fall to have been fatal, but given the heavy rains during the fight I am more uncertain as to how she would be able to swim the chasms during the flash floods in her shard plate. I guess she could have gotten new powers somehow, but barring that I have trouble seeing her survive that night. Also, if she got some improved powers, wouldn't that also meant all the other storm form parshendi would have gotten the same powers? I can't recall anything for the fighting scene to suggest that, but, maybe it might have happened after the humans got out? 

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I'd say there's definitely a good chance she's still with us. More than anything else, because of the contention with that small part inside of her that's still her and wants to fight back against what she's become with storm form.
While I can't say I would be surprised if she's actually dead, I still feel that she has a part to play, and let's be honest, we didn't see a corpse, and that's always a red flag for character survival.

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I realize that they wouldn't start searching immediately, but, we did see some of the aftermath, settling into the tower and such, so I would assume that it would be natural to start searching for the shard plate and sword as soon as possible during that time.

 

I am not expecting the fall to have been fatal, but given the heavy rains during the fight I am more uncertain as to how she would be able to swim the chasms during the flash floods in her shard plate. I guess she could have gotten new powers somehow, but barring that I have trouble seeing her survive that night. Also, if she got some improved powers, wouldn't that also meant all the other storm form parshendi would have gotten the same powers? I can't recall anything for the fighting scene to suggest that, but, maybe it might have happened after the humans got out? 

 

Given that there was a flood washing through the whole area, I would think that it would be almost impossible to find a single specific piece of equipment (or two pieces, as the case may be) on the Shattered Plains.

 

Kaladin and Shallan survived in the chasms during a flood and they didn't even have Plate.  She could have just carved out a shelter like they did.

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I thought it said/implied that one of the abilities of stormform was immunity to the storms.
 
 

Venli approached, timid at first. “Stormform,” she whispered to Awe. “It works, then? You can
move in the storms without danger?"


Another reason Eshonai is walking it off.

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Given that there was a flood washing through the whole area, I would think that it would be almost impossible to find a single specific piece of equipment (or two pieces, as the case may be) on the Shattered Plains.

 

As I understood the shape/tilt of the area and/or the direction of the storms meant that all the wreckage gathers in particular areas, that was why Kaladin and the bridge men were set to search the chasms, because the water brought the bodies etc. close to the Alethi war camps. Even if the two storms might have changed that pattern, it probably wouldn't be an impossible search given that the currents in the chasm could be expected to bring the bodies from the fight in roughly the same area.

 

Kaladin and Shallan survived in the chasms during a flood and they didn't even have Plate.  She could have just carved out a shelter like they did.

I think it is quite a different thing to carve a hiding place and hide in it before the storm/flood than to fall 200ish feet into a wild current many feet high.

 

I thought it said/implied that one of the abilities of stormform was immunity to the storms.

Another reason Eshonai is walking it off.

Yes, but does immune to the storms mean immune to water currents and drowning?

That being said, I hope and kinda expect her to have survived somehow (based on the importance of her character in the story), I am just having problems imagining how she might have managed to do it :P

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Q: Will we see more of Szeth’s backstory, including how he became a Truthless.

A: His flashbacks will come in a later book, each book is dedicated to one character’s flashbacks. WotK was Kaladin, WoR was Shallan, Then Szeth will be next, followed by Eshonai, and then Dalinar.

 

From the words of brandon thread.  Technically, there's no reason we couldn't have flashbacks for a dead character but i've gone ahead and taken it as gospel that she's fine.  Well, maybe not "fine" but definitely, "alive".

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Yes, but does immune to the storms mean immune to water currents and drowning?

Maybe? Do we have any reason to believe that Parshendi, in any form, have a need for air comparable to humans?  Maybe Stormform added gills in addition to carapace armor!

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It would be a far bigger plot twist if she were actually dead. Characters with questionable deaths and no body actually staying dead? THAT would be bucking a trope. 

As an aside, Eshonai flashbacks don't mean each book won't focus on a different order of the KR or that Eshonai would become a KR. Book four could focus on another order of the KR without featuring flashbacks from a member of said order. As a theoretical example: what if book four focused on the Truthwatchers? Renarin doesn't appear to have an overly exciting past (as compared to the characters we have confirmed for flashbacks) and it would possibly undermine the weight of Dalinar's flashbacks in book five.

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As I understood the shape/tilt of the area and/or the direction of the storms meant that all the wreckage gathers in particular areas, that was why Kaladin and the bridge men were set to search the chasms, because the water brought the bodies etc. close to the Alethi war camps. Even if the two storms might have changed that pattern, it probably wouldn't be an impossible search given that the currents in the chasm could be expected to bring the bodies from the fight in roughly the same area.

 

There were two storms, which would likely screw up the pattern. Kaladin also indicates that far away from the warcamps, the flows aren't exactly as he'd expected (part of why he gets lost). There's never been a battle that close to the center of the Shattered Plains before (the furthest is the Tower, which is still less than a day away). Finally, it's noted in TWoK that Parshendi bodies are much less common near the warcamps than expected; I believe Sigzil theorizes that this is due to Parshendi being more dense than humans and thus less prone to wash away.

 

It might be worth noting though that there's at least one other Shard unaccounted for: Teleb's Shardplate. Probably also lost in the chasms, though.

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Gonna echo everyone else and say I believe Eshonai survived that fall.

 

Possible reason why Mr. S threw her off the cliff? To separate her from the herd of red-eyed voidbringers and likely bring her into the hands of the escaped listeners. Maybe they could then exorcise the stormspren from her, or something. Likely less difficult if they found her injured from the fall and subsequent wet and wild experience through chasm-flood-rapids.

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From a plot perspective, Eshonai is most certainly alive, no point in depicting her death in such a way that people will think that she may live. If to depict her truely dead, it is way better to let her die by being cut down by Adolin.

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Right, so we all believe she is alive. Good. Main reasons for her survival:

  • Shardplate
  • Stormform
  • Stormform's rumored immunity to the highstorms' destruction
  • Plot reasons
  • No corpse
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As I understood the shape/tilt of the area and/or the direction of the storms meant that all the wreckage gathers in particular areas, that was why Kaladin and the bridge men were set to search the chasms, because the water brought the bodies etc. close to the Alethi war camps. Even if the two storms might have changed that pattern, it probably wouldn't be an impossible search given that the currents in the chasm could be expected to bring the bodies from the fight in roughly the same area.

 

I think it is quite a different thing to carve a hiding place and hide in it before the storm/flood than to fall 200ish feet into a wild current many feet high.

 

All she needs to do is to carve out a handhold.  If she manages to do it before she hits the bottom (which seems possible given the abilities of Shardplate and Stormform), she's set.  If she hits the bottom, once she manages to get even a slight handhold anywhere, it should be relative easy to make more and then a shelter.  

 

Finding random bodies is easy.  Find a specific one, I think is less plausible.

 

If anybody knew that it was out there, you might get a few individual treasure hunters, but Dalinar has bigger things to worry about than one set of Shards.  Most people probably aren't even aware that it happened.

Edited by PudgyNinja
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I agree that she is likely alive.  Though, to be honest I wish she was dead.  Don't get me wrong.  I like Eshonai (pre-stormform at least).  But, Kaladin's arm came back, Syl came back, Jasnah came back, and Szeth came back.  That is a lot of coming back from the dead.  This book finished without much n the way of actual cost.  The only person of particular note that actually dies and apparently stays dead is Sadeas (which was good, Sadeas was played out in my mind).  Other than him, it was a lot of characters which could barely be described as side characters at best.  

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Well she fell into a chasm and then there was a high storm and an ever storm, so that's a lot of water and flash floods. The biggest indicator that she might have survived is that we didn't see her die, she just fell.

The other thing I want to know; did any of the other Parshendi survive? It didn't sound like they all got killed by weapons. I guess they could have survived because of storm form, but I'm sure there isn't a whole lot of them remaining.

Edited by FlatLine
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"Eshonai woke up. She felt her limbs trembling like leaves, her mind ensconced in a thick syrup. Each tremor brought enormous pain; the shattered remnants of Shaedplate clung to her in only a few small places. Yet somehow, she was alive. She had survived the storm and the flood."

Boom. She's alive, no further explanation needed. Characters surviving improbably to advance their development seems to be a thing in SA - Kal multiple times, Shallan one or two.

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The other thing I want to know; did any of the other Parshendi survive? It didn't sound like they all got killed by weapons. I guess they could have survived because of storm form, but I'm sure there isn't a whole lot of them remaining.

 

The stormform Parshendi routed and jumped chasms. Of course, they were running directly into a Highstorm that was just about to crash into the Everstorm, so I can't imagine it was a fun trip, but probably most of the ones who ran survived.

 

It's worth noting that Eshonai fell into the chasm a good bit before the Everstorm was completed or the Highstorm arrived. Add to that that stormform is strong enough to jump chasms and has armored carapace, she's tough as nails, and that if she weren't able to shelter in the immediate area she'd most likely get washed directly into the storm her patron Shard designed to provide investiture and therefore could work like when Kaladin and Szeth went into the Highstorm, and her odds are looking pretty decent.

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He just fell out the third-story window, plummeting toward certain doom. Of course he'll live!

Oh, name_here, this line makes me laugh EVERY time.
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