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Bigmikey357

[OB] So who is the head of the last order?

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Ok, maybe this has been answered before so let me attempt to frame this properly.

There are to be 10 books in the Stormlight Archive. Each focal character is to represent their order. They are as follows:

Front 5

Windrunner-Kaladin

Lightweaver-Shallan

Bondsmith-Dalinar

Willshaper-Eshonai/Venli

Skybreaker-Szeth

Back 5 (in no particular order)

Elsecaller-Jasnah

Truthwatcher-Renarin

Edgedancer-Lyft

Stoneward-Taln

Dustbringer-Ash

Now I can understand Taln being on the list as the Patron Herald of his Order but Ash? She's supposed to be the Patron Herald of Lightweavers. Chanarach is the Dustbringer Herald, shouldn't she be the one who gets the Dustbringer book? Or Malata, the confirmed Dustbringer we've seen (briefly) on screen? Or will Ash actually shun her own Order sometime later and instead join the Releasers? We have seen destructive tendencies from her previously and living for over 5 millennia has certainly put enough cracks in her soul to qualify for a Nahel bond. From Nale's example we know it's possible for a Herald to achieve a bond.  So how's this going to work? If there's a WOB I've missed then feel free to enlighten me.

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It's all speculation based off this WoB. 

Quote

Cemci

Have we-- I think you mentioned in a previous signing that we'd already met one member of every Order of the Knights Radiant.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I think you have.

Cemci

My question is, have we met two Edgedancers? And is one of the Dustbringers a viewpoint character?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the Dustbringers is eventually a point-of-view character.

Cemci

Haven't been yet?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not yet, I don't think. But it depends if you count the Heralds as members of their order.

Cemci

I don't.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, see I would, because they're kind of heads of their Order. If you don't count them you have not met some from every Order.

Cemci

Have we met someone from the Dustbringers?

Brandon Sanderson

Well-- Dustbringers are really complicated. Really complicated. So that's the weird one. Okay? So let's shelve that one. You'll see why it's really weird later on.

source

I subscribe to the belief though. 

We've seen future members of all orders (this was prior to OB) if you include Heralds, and we've seen a future Dustbringer... But they're complicated. 

What's more complicated/convuluted in this context than a Herald of one order, bonding and joining another? 

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That is kinda what it would have to be. I don't think Brandon is going to change the viewpoint characters he's already stated this late in the game. That's the most likely scenario although there are of course other options. The Eshonai/Venli outlier in the front 5 is an example of a way things can go pear-shaped for the Dustbringer book, although we don't yet know all of Ash's associations. We know she's Jezrian's kid and likely Taln's lover but Jez is dead dead and Taln is getting his own book. Maybe she's Chana's sister? Or she could become a mentor to the main Releaser and her flashbacks are somehow relevant to that person despite not sharing an Order. It's all speculative at this point. I was just wondering semi out loud.

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Oh hey, its this subject again. (I'm surprised how long it took. We went from 3 times in 3 months to a 4 month gap)

20 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Or she could become a mentor to the main Releaser and her flashbacks are somehow relevant to that person despite not sharing an Order.

Thank you. It's very refreshing to hear someone else who sees more than one option. On the subject of options, have 9 of them:

Quote

You're equating the flashback character of a book with the order the book will focus on. They are two separate things, and Brandon has directly stated that they will not always match up. All the WoB says is that the book will have a flashback character, and that the book will focus on an Order.

On a side-note, these WoB's provide us with several possibilities:

  1. Shalash bonds a Spren and becomes a Dustbringer, allowing us to learn about the Dustbringers in her book.
  2. Chana is indisposed(or dead) at the time of Shalash's book, so she takes command of the Dustbringers in the interim, allowing us to learn about Dustbringers in her book without her being a Dustbringer.
  3. Shalash takes up Chana's Honorblade(for reasons), allowing us to learn different stuff about Dustbringer powers from her, and learning about the Order itself from some minor character like say.. Redin.

4. Shalash could be a member of literally any of the Orders, or none of them, during her flashback book, and we learn about Dustbringers from a different member of the primary three viewpoints(like Kal/Shallan in WoK/WoR).

5. Shalash could be dead at the time of her book(like Eshonai), and we learn about Dustbringers from whoever replaces her in the primary viewpoints.
6. Shalash x Dustbringer romance/professional relationship, allowing us to learn about Dustbringers from a more minor character involved in the main narrative. (Kinda like if we'd been learning about Shallan's order from Adolin's PoV of her, so Brandon can switch it up on us)
7. Literally anything else that would lead us to learn about the Dustbringers, so long as it is interspersed with Shalash's flashbacks in a way that makes sense.

Nothing Brandon has stated prevents any of these, but everyone seems to think it automatically has to be option 1, which is why I've gone back to using the phrase "connecting dots that aren't necessarily there."


Brandon loves to switch things up on us, but he also likes coming up with new and inventive ways to change it up. So as for your theory itself, I'd say it's not as likely anymore because we already have this happening now, what with Eshonai indisposed and Venli taking her place in the narrative.


8. After several books of trying to get better, Shalash gives up, "drinks to forget rehab," and takes up residence with the Dustbringers, where she(and her destructive tendencies) won't feel out of place. (Note: she'd potentially be non-powered in this one)
9. Speaking of which, in an effort to channel her destructive tendencies towards a purpose, Shalash ends up becoming a Dustbringer Squire. (Who said we'd learn about the Order from a Radiant?)

(I'm tired of having to format this as a multi-quote, so it's been condensed into just one now. Individual links to parts one, two, three, and four, for context/discussion value)

Edited by The One Who Connects
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1 hour ago, The One Who Connects said:

Oh hey, its this subject again. (I'm surprised how long it took. We went from 3 times in 3 months to a 4 month gap)

Thank you. It's very refreshing to hear someone else who sees more than one option. On the subject of options, have 9 of them:

(I'm tired of having to format this as a multi-quote, so it's been condensed into just one now. Individual links to parts one, two, three, and four, for context/discussion value)

My word, was that ever fast and thorough...Have an upvote for uncanny vigilance and speed of reference.

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I don't think that the Ash as Dustbringer theory is the only option, I just think it's the most interesting. 

How do the new Lightweavers and dustbringers, as well as the other Heralds, respond to the ultimate historical representation of one order joining and advancing in an order that I drastically different than what she originally represented? 

I want to read that. 

Edited by Calderis
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6 hours ago, Calderis said:

How do the new Lightweavers and dustbringers, as well as the other Heralds, respond to the ultimate historical representation of one order joining and advancing in an order that I drastically different than what she originally represented? 

Shallash seems to have changed a lot as a person from when she was originally a Herald during the Desolations - of course we can only get this through the current context of the story since we haven't seen her back then, but to me she seems bitter and angry, and very neurotic, mainly from her incessant defacing of Herald-themed artwork.  I think that we will learn as time goes on that Shallash has changed drastically as a person from when she was the Herald of Lightweavers, and that her personality and priorities are now very out of sync with someone the Cryptics would look for in a Radiant, and much more in line with the Order of Dustbringers.  The fact that she used to be associated with Lightweavers is essentially a coincidence - now, she is very oriented towards the ideals of the Dustbringers, which is what matters the most to the spren.  

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8 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Oh hey, its this subject again. (I'm surprised how long it took. We went from 3 times in 3 months to a 4 month gap)

Thank you. It's very refreshing to hear someone else who sees more than one option. On the subject of options, have 9 of them:

(I'm tired of having to format this as a multi-quote, so it's been condensed into just one now. Individual links to parts one, two, three, and four, for context/discussion value)

It is helpful to see the original WOB, because I agree it is not clear-cut. We also know it is possible that back four characters will die before there books and other characters will be focused on like Eshonai/Venli. I can imagine if Ash falls in Moash in 4 or 5, having Ash's 'descent into distruction' backstory along side a dustbringer present day story would work well.

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There are hints that she will in fact be a Dustbringer. One hint is Nale, who has bonded a spren, so we know Heralds can do it. One is how she breaks things, just like a good Dustbringer. Another one is her name. She is literally called Ash, and the spren are Ashspren. Finally, there was a line in the Thaylen Battle, about every Order being represented there. And since Malata wasn’t present, but Ash was, the logical conclusion is that she will be a Dustbringer.

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16 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Each focal character is to represent their order. 

When did we learn this?

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When Brandon put out the list for viewpoint characters around the time Words of Radiance came out. He gave out the list of characters slated to get a book and that each one would represent an Order of KR. 

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I remember that as each book focusing on an order, not each flashback character. Do you have a link?

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6 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

(...)  And since Malata wasn’t present, but Ash was, the logical conclusion is that she will be a Dustbringer.

Far too many people seem to ignore this fact.

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32 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

I remember that as each book focusing on an order, not each flashback character. Do you have a link?

I'm pretty sure Brandon has referred to Oathbringer interchangeably as "Dalinar's book" and "The Bondsmith book", same with WoK = Kaladin = Windrunner and WoR = Shallan = Lightweaver

book 1, Way of Kings: Kaladin / Windrunner
book 2, Words of Radiance: Shallan / Lightweaver
book 3, Oathbringer: Dalinar / Bondsmith
book 4, Venli/Eshonai : Willshaper
book 5, Szeth : Skybreaker

(Books 4 and 5 may be swapped in ordering)

The back five books - ordering TBD, but with known main POV characters and Order affiliation:

Lift / Edgedancer
Renarin / Truthwatcher
Jasnah / Elsecaller
Taln / Stoneward ?
Ash / ?? Dustbringer ??

So it would seem that Taln will eventually follow suit with Nalan and "join the Order he originally headed as a Herald", but that Ash will "go Dustbringer."

That, or Taln goes Dustbringer and Ash goes Stoneward, which would also be interesting, but less sensible from what we know after Oathbringer.

 

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14 minutes ago, robardin said:
50 minutes ago, Nymeros said:
52 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

He gave out the list of characters slated to get a book and that each one would represent an Order of KR. 

I remember that as each book focusing on an order, not each flashback character. Do you have a link?

I'm pretty sure Brandon has referred to Oathbringer interchangeably as "Dalinar's book" and "The Bondsmith book", same with WoK = Kaladin = Windrunner and WoR = Shallan = Lightweaver

I mostly agree with Nymeros, because that's what Brandon said:

Quote

INTERVIEWSep 4th, 2014

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Verbatim)

QUESTION

What are the other books in The Stormlight Archive going to be about?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well each book is going to cover a flashback sequence for one of the characters and each book will focus on a different order of the Knights Radiant. And that's not always the same, like the flashbacks for the first one were Kaladin and it was also Windrunners, but we won't always have them be the exact same.

He's essentially said that sometimes they'll match, sometimes they wont. And given that Eshonai was proto-Willshaper, nobody seems to count the Eshonai/Venli switch as focusing on different ones, so it's gotta happen later on, no?

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^That's what I was looking for. Thank you Connector.

 Ash can be a Lightweaver and still have flashback sequences for a book where Dustbringers (or whoever else) are the main focus.

Edited by Nymeros
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I wonder if one of the 9 "shadows" bad things could potentially be a dustbringer maybe?

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14 hours ago, Odin1981 said:

I wonder if one of the 9 "shadows" bad things could potentially be a dustbringer maybe?

These shadows were a reference to the Unmade.

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Yes but the one in Oathbringer I forget the name of but who was trying to work with the knights radiant potentially. I can't prove it by any means at all but since in the above posts it was referenced as the dustbringer head is "weird" via WOB maybe that one becomes it potentially. Just a shot in the dark though. 

In referance to Calderis's post.

 

Edited by Odin1981
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42 minutes ago, Odin1981 said:

Yes but the one in Oathbringer I forget the name of but who was trying to work with the knights radiant potentially. I can't prove it by any means at all but since in the above posts it was referenced as the dustbringer head is "weird" via WOB maybe that one becomes it potentially. Just a shot in the dark though. 

In referance to Calderis's post.

 

That was specifically in reference to the character that we would see as a Dustbringer Radiant. 

I find it unlikely that Sja-anat will be our dustbringer. 

While I personally do think the the Unmade could be bonded, I think they would only end up creating Bondsmiths (hence why expanding the order beyond 3 members was seen as seditious). 

For a spren itself, I don't think that they can become a Surgebinder, excluding them from the "complicated" mess of the at WoB. 

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On 5-6-2018 at 4:20 PM, robardin said:

(Books 4 and 5 may be swapped in ordering)

No they may not. Though Brandon has swapped flashback characters around in the planning he's given us, it's always been men for each odd-numbered book and women for each even-numbered book. Clearly, he plans to stick to that.

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13 hours ago, Calderis said:

That was specifically in reference to the character that we would see as a Dustbringer Radiant. 

I find it unlikely that Sja-anat will be our dustbringer. 

While I personally do think the the Unmade could be bonded, I think they would only end up creating Bondsmiths (hence why expanding the order beyond 3 members was seen as seditious). 

For a spren itself, I don't think that they can become a Surgebinder, excluding them from the "complicated" mess of the at WoB. 

Yeah, i'm just guessing on that one. Because it would be weird. Though I found it interesting how one of the unmade got trapped in the sapphire and one herald died to the dagger with a crystal. But that is another tangent entirely.

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Perhaps Ash was never the Herald of Beauty?

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