Hidden Things in Map of Roshar?

[Samurai]

this could be complete off base but doesn't the map of Roshar list the city in a similar relationship to each other that we see in the symbol of the Knight Ridaints. Could just sleep deprivation.

[Skyrider]

Ok, first post and I haven't gotten my hands on all of Brandon's books so some of this may be off base.
 
I skimmed through WoB and a few pages of this thread and have come up with a few ideas.
 
 
Background info:
 
From one of Brandons signings/speaking engagements:
Q:  Can you give me a hint in the easter egg in the map of Roshar? What particular skill do you need for it?  Is it a different language or math related?
A:  It's not linguistics.  It is math related.  Let me remind you this is not going to be a mind blowing revelation.  It is going to be a nifty thing.  Someone actually got close at one of my signings.  They noticed something.  But it is a fun easter egg that will tell you more about the history of the world.
 
From there I was skimming this thread and wandered across the idea of fractals, specifically Dragon curves.  I saw someone reference them on Page 25 and Peter confirmed that someone on that page was getting close.  
 
Next, I understand we're working with two pretty important numbers: 10 & 16.

I used both those numbers for the Dragon Curve (at 90 degrees) and generated two images.
                  

10th Order  -   http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dragon+curve&a=*C.dragon+curve-_*Formula.dflt-&f2=10&f=DragonCurve.n_10&a=*FVarOpt.1-_**-.***DragonCurve.theta---.*--                         

16th Order -    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dragon+curve&a=*C.dragon+curve-_*Formula.dflt-&f2=16&f=DragonCurve.n_16&a=*FVarOpt.1-_**-.***DragonCurve.theta---.*--

 Map of Roshar -   http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130609204511/stormlightarchive/images/thumb/3/34/Map_roshar.jpg/1000px-Map_roshar.jpg                                 

 

 
(I couldn't get the images to paste, so I attached the links.  Sorry about that.)

 

I think that 16 is a little closer to the map of Roshar and the discrepancies in shapes can be accounted for by erosion and crem from highstorms.

 

Theories:

-The Shattering took place here/nearby.  This fits the idea of 16 shards/16th order of the fractal.  It's also a larger reveal then my second possibility.

-Cultivation has been on Roshar long enough that it has begun to influence the worlds development/patterns of the highstorms.

 

What do you think?

Edited April 18, 2014 by Skyrider

[Wherethewindgoes]

I think the 10th iteration looks a lot more like Roshar, except for that curve on the top right. In fact, if you take that part out and shift it to the other side, then rotate it, you get this...

 

...which looks rather familiar...

 

So perhaps the shape of the continent was originally modeled after the Dragon Curve, but Aimia broke off somehow?

[Skyrider]

I agree. Both ends have islands that are separate from the mainland, so it's possible that at some point a couple of the 'spokes' (for lack of a better word) broke free.

I was reading through some of the other threads and someone indicated that WoB was that the shards do not originate from Roshar. I'll see if I can find a quote about this so we know for certain. If true, this would bust the Shattering theory and lead me to agree with Wherethewindgoes in that 10 might be a better guess.

Though I'm not sure how that would be a tie into Roshar's past.

[Arin]

I get the secret hiden in the map may be math related, but some, if not all of Roshar are greatshell islands that continue to increase in number. How does that work if Roshar is a fractal? The land moves on its own. At least the islands do and I suspect all of the place is alive.

[GreyPilgrim]

[Disclaimer: I do not want to divert the thread at all, so if you're trying to follow the conversation please ignore this.]

 

I am (obviously) kind of a latecomer to this thread, and it is way too big at this point for me to want to even attempt to read it. Can someone please either post a summary of some of the main ideas that have come out of this discussion in the thread for others like me or send me a PM with the information? It would be greatly appreciated. 

[Veil]

You know, I've been thinking we needed a summary for a while now, so I'll take on that insanity and try to sum up the topic-so far.

 

(Covers pages 1-10; will be updating as time allows)

 

Updated through page 20 below. Hiding the body of this post to reduce clutter.

 

Ongoing Theories

-Symmetry (point, rotational, diagonal.) Urithiru may be the origin.

-The shape of Roshar is reminiscent of a spiral galaxy/two colliding spiral galaxies, a hurricane/storm cell/two colliding storms (possibly a highstorm and an everstorm), or an Aes Sedai/Yin Yang symbol. Basically the shape is weird and reminds us of a lot of things.

-Roshar itself may be spinning or moving (The "Great Roshar-Shell circling the globe and passing through a single stationary highstorm" theory.)

-Jigsaw Roshar (the possibility that the islands, or at least Aimia, broke off the main landmass and/or has a different origin.) Brought up early in the topic, then returned with the Dragon Curve theory (more on this as I get through the rest of the topic.)

 

Compass Roses and Map Projections

-The rays of the compass rose on the WoR (full-color) map are not equi-angular.

-The WoR compass rose bears some similarity to the roses on the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to point out that the numbers on the translation were off, and that yes, it mattered.

-Efforts were made to overlay various maps with the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to say it was a projection issue; the lines on the Frostlands map would curve at the bottom.

-Maresia gave us this lovely spherical projection of Roshar.

-Veil eyeballed latitude and longitude on the map of Roshar. (Peter confirmed that this gives the right general idea, though he hasn't compared it to the original; minor discrepancies may exist.)

-Should be noted that, while Peter gave us a couple nudges in the right direction, he also pointed out that this was not "The Thing" Brandon has been hinting at.

 

Observations covered more extensively in other topics

-Frostlands Map and Thaylen Glyphs

-Map Symbol

 

Unanswered but abandoned questions

-What's the significance of the double-line latitudes?

-What's the significance of the compass roses on the Frostlands map? Suggestions to date include Oathgates, Shardpools, and Unmade. They connect to each other, but not always--suggesting there could be more beyond the borders of the map. Most have 16 lines, but not all.

-What's up with highstorms? The continent of Roshar covers nearly the entire western hemisphere, yet the storm covers the land in about a day, while taking a week or more to cover the other half of the globe and then return.

 

Interesting observations that are not "The Thing."

-The Sea of Lost Souls in Shadesmar corresponds to Alethkar, possibly in reference to the Recreance.

-The WoR (full-color) map has a signature and symbol in the lower corner. The signature may belong to Isasik Shulin (Royal Cartographor whose seal is on the WoK map.) The symbol also shows up on the sword stance scroll. It's not clear if the symbol indicates Isasik, Nazh, or someone/thing else. Symbol

-The symbols on the border of the WoR map correspond to the cymatic pattern for Akinah and the map symbol.

-The WoR map has several new cities labelled, but there doesn't seem to be anything significant about them (yet.)

-Shadesmar has mountains where the Purelake is, like the bead-ocean was superimposed on a pre-existing landscape. (Shadesmar pre-dates Roshar?)

-The shape of Roshar stays the same from the Silver Kingdoms era through modern day. There are no plate tectonics at play, but erosion/crem build-up lead to a slow migration of the continent. Two possibilities here: erosion and deposition are so similar the shape of the continent doesn't change; or this is such a slow process that it hasn't changed more than a couple inches over the last 4000-odd years (comparable to continental drift on Earth.)

-There are new islands in the modern maps. Unclear if the Reshi Isles are reproducing or if the modern map was just drawn with more detail.

 

Theories that were brought up and then either disproved or abandoned for lack of evidence

-Words and images in the texture of the WoR (full-color) map or in the pattern of mountain. We had several people trying to mess with contrast to clarify the "text" but never found anything concrete.

-Shape of the map/lines indicating somewhere to fold the map/overlap on itself. Never heard of anything being discovered through this method.

-The "Ray-Letter" Theory. Possibility of a hidden message. Brought up here, expanded upon/mostly discounted here.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Veil

[Shaggai]

Ok, first post and I haven't gotten my hands on all of Brandon's books so some of this may be off base.

 

I skimmed through WoB and a few pages of this thread and have come up with a few ideas.

 

 

Background info:

 

From one of Brandons signings/speaking engagements:

Q:  Can you give me a hint in the easter egg in the map of Roshar? What particular skill do you need for it?  Is it a different language or math related?

A:  It's not linguistics.  It is math related.  Let me remind you this is not going to be a mind blowing revelation.  It is going to be a nifty thing.  Someone actually got close at one of my signings.  They noticed something.  But it is a fun easter egg that will tell you more about the history of the world.

 

From there I was skimming this thread and wandered across the idea of fractals, specifically Dragon curves.  I saw someone reference them on Page 25 and Peter confirmed that someone on that page was getting close.  

 

Next, I understand we're working with two pretty important numbers: 10 & 16.

I used both those numbers for the Dragon Curve (at 90 degrees) and generated two images.

                  

10th Order  -   http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dragon+curve&a=*C.dragon+curve-_*Formula.dflt-&f2=10&f=DragonCurve.n_10&a=*FVarOpt.1-_**-.***DragonCurve.theta---.*--                         

16th Order -    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dragon+curve&a=*C.dragon+curve-_*Formula.dflt-&f2=16&f=DragonCurve.n_16&a=*FVarOpt.1-_**-.***DragonCurve.theta---.*--

 Map of Roshar -   http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130609204511/stormlightarchive/images/thumb/3/34/Map_roshar.jpg/1000px-Map_roshar.jpg                                 

 

 

(I couldn't get the images to paste, so I attached the links.  Sorry about that.)

 

I think that 16 is a little closer to the map of Roshar and the discrepancies in shapes can be accounted for by erosion and crem from highstorms.

 

Theories:

-The Shattering took place here/nearby.  This fits the idea of 16 shards/16th order of the fractal.  It's also a larger reveal then my second possibility.

-Cultivation has been on Roshar long enough that it has begun to influence the worlds development/patterns of the highstorms.

 

What do you think?

The tenth and sixteenth are the same, just with different levels of detail. Roshar looks like a dragon curve (of any sufficient level of detail. It could be a 10-fold curve, a 16-fold curve, or a 100-fold curve) with some extra islands and Shinovar added on, and the whole eastern end eroded by highstorms.

[Veil]

The Really Big Thread Summary

**Updated through page 20**

 

Now FINISHED. See below.

(Hiding this post to reduce clutter.)

 

WoB

-"The Thing" pertains to the main Roshar map (from either book), is hard to find but relatively minor, and does not have to do with the compass. (Thanks to Luke.spence.)

-The observation that Roshar looks like a spiral galaxy is on the right track, but "The Thing" does not have to do with gravitation/black holes. (Thanks to Shicaca.)

 

WoP

-Specific knowledge is required to discover "The Thing," and there's no reason to assume most of us would possess this knowledge. Even if we have the knowledge, we may not realize it's applicable.

-The specific knowledge is not Cosmere-related. "The Thing" is cool, but fairly isolated.

 

Ongoing Theories

-Roshar has a striking degree of symmetry (point/rotational/diagonal.) Urithiru may be the origin. The significance of this is unknown.

-The shape of Roshar is reminiscent of a spiral galaxy/two colliding spiral galaxies, a hurricane/storm cell/two colliding storms (possibly a highstorm and an everstorm), an Aes Sedai/Yin Yang symbol, the Double Pupil of the Almighty, or Brandon's signature. Basically the shape is weird and reminds us of a lot of things.

-The spiral galaxy parallel in particular has led to a lot of speculation about Roshar being a Cosmere hub world and/or Rosharan cities/landmarks corresponding to other Shardworlds' locations in the Cosmere, but so far no confirmation on any of these theories.

-Roshar itself may be spinning or moving. (The "Great Roshar-Shell circling the globe and passing through a single stationary highstorm" theory.) Alternatively, it maybe the Pangaea of Roshar (i.e. a supercontinent in the process of breaking up.) Also known as the Jigsaw Roshar Theory.

-The "Aimia is Weird" Theory. Namely that Aimia either broke off the main landmass or has a different origin entirely. First brought up early in the topic, then returned with the Dragon Curve theory (more on this as I get through the rest of the topic.)

 

Compass Roses and Map Projections

-The rays of the compass rose on the WoR (full-color) map are not equi-angular.

-The WoR compass rose bears some similarity to the roses on the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to point out that the numbers on the translation were off, and that yes, it mattered.

-Efforts were made to overlay various maps with the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to say it was a projection issue; the lines on the Frostlands map would curve at the bottom.

-Maresia gave us this lovely spherical projection of Roshar.

-Veil eyeballed latitude and longitude on the map of Roshar. (Peter confirmed that this gives the right general idea, though he hasn't compared it to the original; minor discrepancies may exist.)

-Should be noted that, while Peter gave us a couple nudges in the right direction, he also pointed out that this was not "The Thing" Brandon has been hinting at.

 

The study in madness that is pages 11-14

-Seriously, we all kinda descended into insanity for a while there.

-Kicked off when Luke.spence asked if we'd discovered "The Thing" and Peter popped into say, "No." (That was literally his entire post.)

-This happened.

-We got off on a lot of tangents that made the post count skyrocket but didn't actually advance our quest. Lots of laughter and crack theories, and then we finally refocused.

 

Observations covered more extensively in other topics

-Frostlands Map and Thaylen Glyphs

-Map Symbol

 

Unanswered but abandoned questions

-What's the significance of the double-line latitudes? Something to do with the moons?

-What's the significance of the compass roses on the Frostlands map? Suggestions to date include Oathgates, Shardpools, and Unmade. They connect to each other, but not always--suggesting there could be more beyond the borders of the map. Most have 16 lines, but not all.

-What's up with highstorms? The continent of Roshar covers nearly the entire western hemisphere, yet the storm covers the land in about a day, while taking a week or more to cover the other half of the globe and then return.

 

Interesting observations that are not "The Thing."

-The Sea of Lost Souls in Shadesmar corresponds to Alethkar, possibly in reference to the Recreance.

-The WoR (full-color) map has a signature and symbol in the lower corner. The signature may belong to Isasik Shulin (Royal Cartographor whose seal is on the WoK map.) The symbol also shows up on the sword stance scroll. It's not clear if the symbol indicates Isasik, Nazh, or someone/thing else.

-The symbols on the border of the WoR map correspond to the cymatic pattern for Akinah and the map symbol.

-The WoR map has several new cities labelled, but there doesn't seem to be anything significant about them (yet.)

-Shadesmar has mountains where the Purelake is, like the bead-ocean was superimposed on a pre-existing landscape. (So Shadesmar pre-dates Roshar?)

-The shape of Roshar stays the same from the Silver Kingdoms era through modern day. There are no plate tectonics at play, but erosion/crem build-up lead to a slow migration of the continent. Two possibilities here: erosion and deposition are so similar the shape of the continent doesn't change; or this is such a slow process that it hasn't changed more than half a kilometer or so over the last 4000-odd years (comparable to continental drift on Earth.)

-There are new islands in the modern maps. Unclear if the Reshi Isles are reproducing or if the modern map was just drawn with more detail.

-Isasik Shulin has a city named after him (or at least his family.)

 

Dead theories (through lack of evidence or just lack of interest.)

-Words and images in the texture of the WoR (full-color) map or in the pattern of mountain. We had several people trying to mess with contrast to clarify the "text" but never found anything concrete.

-Shape of the map/lines indicating somewhere to fold the map/overlap on itself. Never heard of anything being discovered through this method, or if it was even attempted.

-The "Ray-Letter" Theory. Possibility of a hidden message. Brought up here, expanded upon/disputed here.

-Superimposing the Surgebinding chart to reveal the secret. Don't know for sure if anyone tried this, but it didn't lead to any revelations.

-Radial glyphs behind the R in Roshar and around the compass look like the same glyph, just repeated a different number of times. Best translations we've had is "SasassasaS," so probably no Plains-Shattering revelation there.

-Drawing lines between cities reveals a glyph or cymatic pattern. There wasn't a lot of effort spent on this theory, since there are just so many cities and possible lines, and nothing Peter or Brandon has said suggests this is worth pursuing.

-Physical vs. digital map distinction. (The idea that a physical print of the map has something (e.g. under blacklight) not found on the digital map.) Never specifically refuted, but it sounds like any version of the Roshar map, physical or digital, works.

-It was noted that some wallpaper versions of the WoK map found on Isaac Stewart's website cut off the latitudes strangely, leaving ghost zeroes in the oceans. THIS IS NOT A CODE.

-Points of convergence obtained by duplicating/reflecting the compass rose might be significant (Shardpools were mentioned), but the discussion never really took off.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Veil

[woolhead]

Alright, I just finished reading the entire thread. I recall Peter posting favorably around the time the idea of tessellation was brought up, and it hasn't really been mentioned again (unless fractals count?). Brandon responded favorably to the observation about the spiral galaxy shape. We also know that the continent "moves" - this lends some credence to the rotating continent idea, which also seems to be supported by the trailing "arms" of islands. 

 

I notice that the peninsula/s of Iri and Rira fit rather well into the Tarat Sea and Longbrow's Straits, respectively. There's even a lake that lines up with Thaylenah. If the peninsulas have been built up by sedimentation as Kheran suggested (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6912-hidden-things-in-map-of-roshar/?p=123426) then the fit would be even better. Or perhaps the thicker crem deposits in the east mean the Sea+Straits are smaller and Thaylenah larger than they once were. Or both. 

 

Having made this perfectly reasonable observation, my crazy, far fetched conclusion is that the entire continent was once wound up into a much tighter spiral. Imagine curling the western half of the continent right around the east coast of the eastern half so that you can tuck Iri and Rira into the Tarat Sea and Longbrow's Straits. So somehow it's spiraled out from this original position leaving a bunch of trailing islands. 

 

This sounds unlikely even to me, and I'm not sure if it's contradicted by the no tectonics on Roshar rule. The true explanation is likely much simpler and plausible. I'm going to post it anyway though, just so someone else doesn't get the fun of doing it. We've gotta keep ruling out possibilities till there's only one easter egg left ... 

[Sirscott13]

I think we need to end discussion of all the things we know its not or that Peter has not confirmed. So stop with the crem theory, the great shell theory, the storm drain theory, etc. 

 

The map is just supposed to be reminiscent of a shape from something relating to math and or galaxies. Peter said we would need special skills to understand. Nothing major important, just a fun little easter egg. 

 

So lets stop with the tangents and figure out this mystery shall we?

 

On that note I am in favor of the dragon curve theory

 

here is a photo of roshar over the dragon curve, and I would be damned if it didn't look like the fractal if just elongated a bit in places..

 

http://imgur.com/ThdEHsw

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sirscott13

[Veil]

The Really Big Thread Summary

**COMPLETE**

 

WoB

-"The Thing" pertains to the main Roshar map (from either book), is hard to find but relatively minor, and does not have to do with the compass. (Thanks to Luke.spence.)

-The observation that Roshar looks like a spiral galaxy is on the right track, but "The Thing" does not have to do with gravitation/black holes. (Thanks to Shicaca.)

-The special skill needed to find "The Thing" has to do with math. Also, someone at a previous signing got close. (Thanks to Peterwinkle.)

 

WoP

-Specific knowledge is required to discover "The Thing," and there's no reason to assume most of us would possess this knowledge. Even if we have the knowledge, we may not realize it's applicable.

-The specific knowledge is not Cosmere-related. "The Thing" is cool, but fairly isolated.

-Someone on this thread has finally gotten close (well... closer.)

 

Prominent Theories

-These concepts were brought up shortly before Peter's "Getting Close" comment, have to do with math, and generally seem likely candidates for "The Thing."

-Fractals (particularly the Dragon Curve.)

-This could support the Fractal Cosmology theory (that Roshar itself is a map of the Cosmere).

-The Dragon Curve is particularly fitting if you break off the eastern arm and move it over to where Aimia is.

-Odical compiled a list of natural fractals (and discovered a possible inspiration for the term "Nahel bond.")

-Julia Sets

-Tessellation

-People have tried using the whole of Roshar in a tessellation pattern, but it doesn't line up

 

Ongoing Discussions

-Roshar has a striking degree of symmetry (point/rotational/diagonal.) Urithiru may be the origin. The significance of this is unknown.

-The shape of Roshar is reminiscent of a spiral galaxy/two colliding spiral galaxies, a hurricane/storm cell/two colliding storms (possibly a highstorm and an everstorm), an Aes Sedai/Yin Yang symbol, the Double Pupil of the Almighty, or Brandon's signature. Basically the shape is weird and reminds us of a lot of things.

-The spiral galaxy parallel in particular has led to a lot of speculation about Roshar being a Cosmere hub world and/or Rosharan cities/landmarks corresponding to other Shardworlds' locations in the Cosmere, but so far no confirmation on any of this.

-History of Roshar: The continent may be the Pangaea of Roshar (i.e. a supercontinent in the process of breaking up.) Or it could be the result of a collision between two or more continents. Or it could be a mashup of lands from different Shardworlds. Also known as the Jigsaw Roshar Theory.

-The "Aimia is Weird" Theory. Namely that Aimia either broke off the main landmass or has a different origin entirely, since it ruins Roshar's symmetry. First brought up early in the topic, then returned with the Dragon Curve theory.

 

Compass Roses and Map Projections

(A cool tangent, but not "The Thing.")

-The rays of the compass rose on the WoR (full-color) map are not equi-angular.

-The WoR compass rose bears some similarity to the roses on the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to point out that the numbers on the translation were off, and that yes, it mattered.

-Efforts were made to overlay various maps with the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to say it was a projection issue; the lines on the Frostlands map would curve at the bottom.

-Maresia gave us this lovely spherical projection of Roshar.

-Veil eyeballed latitude and longitude on the map of Roshar. (Peter confirmed that this gives the right general idea, though he hasn't compared it to the original; minor discrepancies may exist.)

-Should be noted that, while Peter gave us a couple nudges in the right direction, he also pointed out that this was not "The Thing" Brandon has been hinting at.

 

The study in madness that is pages 11-14

-Seriously, we all kinda descended into insanity for a while there.

-Kicked off when Luke.spence asked if we'd discovered "The Thing" and Peter popped into say, "No." (That was literally his entire post.)

-This happened.

-We got off on a lot of tangents that made the post count skyrocket but didn't actually advance our quest. Lots of laughter and crack theories, and then we finally refocused.

 

Observations covered more extensively in other topics

-Frostlands Map and Thaylen Glyphs

-Map Symbol

 

Unanswered but abandoned questions

-What's the significance of the double-line latitudes? Something to do with the moons?

-What's the significance of the compass roses on the Frostlands map? Suggestions to date include Oathgates, Shardpools, and Unmade. They connect to each other, but not always--suggesting there could be more beyond the borders of the map. Most have 16 lines, but not all.

-What's up with highstorms? The continent of Roshar covers nearly the entire western hemisphere, yet the storm covers the land in about a day, while taking a week or more to cover the other half of the globe and then return.

 

Interesting observations that are not "The Thing."

-The Sea of Lost Souls in Shadesmar corresponds to Alethkar, possibly in reference to the Recreance.

-The WoR (full-color) map has a signature and symbol in the lower corner. The signature may belong to Isasik Shulin (Royal Cartographor whose seal is on the WoK map.) The symbol also shows up on the sword stance scroll. It's not clear if the symbol indicates Isasik, Nazh, or someone/thing else.

-The symbols on the border of the WoR map correspond to the cymatic pattern for Akinah and the map symbol.

-The WoR map has several new cities labelled, but there doesn't seem to be anything significant about them (yet.)

-Shadesmar has mountains where the Purelake is, like the bead-ocean was superimposed on a pre-existing landscape. (So Shadesmar pre-dates Roshar?)

-The shape of Roshar stays the same from the Silver Kingdoms era through modern day. There are no plate tectonics at play, but erosion/crem build-up lead to a slow migration of the continent. Two possibilities here: erosion and deposition are so similar the shape of the continent doesn't change; or this is such a slow process that it hasn't changed more than half a kilometer or so over the last 4000-odd years (comparable to continental drift on Earth.)

-There are new islands in the modern maps. Unclear if the Reshi Isles are reproducing or if the modern map was just drawn with more detail.

-Isasik Shulin has a city named after him (or at least his family.)

-Roshar's archipelagos line up along perfect ellipses--although this is only true on the flat map projections and wouldn't hold up on a sphere.

 

Dead theories (through lack of evidence or just lack of interest.)

-Words and images in the texture of the WoR (full-color) map or in the pattern of mountain. We had several people trying to mess with contrast to clarify the "text" but never found anything concrete.

-Shape of the map/lines indicating somewhere to fold the map/overlap on itself. Never heard of anything being discovered through this method, or if it was even attempted.

-The "Ray-Letter" Theory. Possibility of a hidden message. Brought up here, expanded upon/disputed here.

-Superimposing the Surgebinding chart to reveal the secret. Don't know for sure if anyone tried this, but it didn't lead to any revelations.

-Radial glyphs behind the R in Roshar and around the compass look like the same glyph, just repeated a different number of times. The only possibly translations we've had are "R (for Roshar)" and "SasassasaS," so probably no Plains-Shattering revelation there.

-Drawing lines between cities reveals a glyph or cymatic pattern. There wasn't a lot of effort spent on this theory, since there are just so many cities and possible lines, and nothing Peter or Brandon has said suggests this is worth pursuing.

-Physical vs. digital map distinction. (The idea that a physical print of the map has something (e.g. under blacklight) not found on the digital map.) Never specifically refuted, but it sounds like any version of the Roshar map, physical or digital, works.

-It was noted that some wallpaper versions of the WoK map found on Isaac Stewart's website cut off the latitudes strangely, leaving ghost zeroes in the oceans. THIS IS NOT A CODE.

-Points of convergence obtained by duplicating/reflecting the compass rose might be significant (Shardpools were mentioned), but the discussion never really took off.

-Roshar (the continent) was originally on the sea floor but was then somehow exposed, possibly by tides. Someone suggested a 4th moon in geosynchronous orbit such that it's never visible from land creating a tidal trough.

-The highstorm was originally stationary and the crem built up into the continent. Then Honor arrived and moved the highstorm off the continent to allow for human life. Disputed because life on Roshar is well adapted to a cycle of highstorms, suggesting that this has been constant for a long time.

-Various theories about crem build up around Dawncities creating mountain ranges, ect. Not quite a death discussion, but largely accepted to be a tangent as it has little to do with math or the various hints we've received.

-The "Great Roshar-Shell Theory," which posits that the continent is a greatshell or thunderclast, possibly moving across the globe. Again, not quite dead, but also not quite relevant.

-The Highstorm used to travel the opposite direction.

-The planet rotates opposite Earth's rotation (debunked thanks to a book quote stating that the sun sets in the west.)

-Rosharan AonDor. Either it exists or it's developing, or something.

[batabab]

I like the theory that all of Roshar is a bunch of greatshells. I think Arin posted that theory.

[batabab]

Chapter 3 WoK. "A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The water surged beneath so far beneath and he heard a child crying, they were his own tears."

My theory has been that Roshar is a lot of greatshells. We have the interlude about the Reshi islands being greatshells and the "land" of Roshar is increasing the number of islands, which you can see when comparing old maps with the newer ones. More greatshells are gathering. The land floats and takes the shape of a storm. -(I have a couple other posts on this thread about it)

I would like to add the death rattle above to this theory. It sounds like the land began to move and destroy everything. It appears to acknowledge the water deep below as if the land was floating.

 

Why would the land start to move? Do you think it is the Everstorm?

[Shaggai]

The Really Big Thread Summary

**COMPLETE**

 

WoB

-"The Thing" pertains to the main Roshar map (from either book), is hard to find but relatively minor, and does not have to do with the compass. (Thanks to Luke.spence.)

-The observation that Roshar looks like a spiral galaxy is on the right track, but "The Thing" does not have to do with gravitation/black holes. (Thanks to Shicaca.)

-The special skill needed to find "The Thing" has to do with math. Also, someone at a previous signing got close. (Thanks to Peterwinkle.)

 

WoP

-Specific knowledge is required to discover "The Thing," and there's no reason to assume most of us would possess this knowledge. Even if we have the knowledge, we may not realize it's applicable.

-The specific knowledge is not Cosmere-related. "The Thing" is cool, but fairly isolated.

-Someone on this thread has finally gotten close (well... closer.)

 

Prominent Theories

-These concepts were brought up shortly before Peter's "Getting Close" comment, have to do with math, and generally seem likely candidates for "The Thing."

-Fractals (particularly the Dragon Curve.)

-This could support the Fractal Cosmology theory (that Roshar itself is a map of the Cosmere).

-The Dragon Curve is particularly fitting if you break off the eastern arm and move it over to where Aimia is.

-Odical compiled a list of natural fractals (and discovered a possible inspiration for the term "Nahel bond.")

-Julia Sets

-Tessellation

-People have tried using the whole of Roshar in a tessellation pattern, but it doesn't line up

 

Ongoing Discussions

-Roshar has a striking degree of symmetry (point/rotational/diagonal.) Urithiru may be the origin. The significance of this is unknown.

-The shape of Roshar is reminiscent of a spiral galaxy/two colliding spiral galaxies, a hurricane/storm cell/two colliding storms (possibly a highstorm and an everstorm), an Aes Sedai/Yin Yang symbol, the Double Pupil of the Almighty, or Brandon's signature. Basically the shape is weird and reminds us of a lot of things.

-The spiral galaxy parallel in particular has led to a lot of speculation about Roshar being a Cosmere hub world and/or Rosharan cities/landmarks corresponding to other Shardworlds' locations in the Cosmere, but so far no confirmation on any of this.

-History of Roshar: The continent may be the Pangaea of Roshar (i.e. a supercontinent in the process of breaking up.) Or it could be the result of a collision between two or more continents. Or it could be a mashup of lands from different Shardworlds. Also known as the Jigsaw Roshar Theory.

-The "Aimia is Weird" Theory. Namely that Aimia either broke off the main landmass or has a different origin entirely, since it ruins Roshar's symmetry. First brought up early in the topic, then returned with the Dragon Curve theory.

 

Compass Roses and Map Projections

(A cool tangent, but not "The Thing.")

-The rays of the compass rose on the WoR (full-color) map are not equi-angular.

-The WoR compass rose bears some similarity to the roses on the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to point out that the numbers on the translation were off, and that yes, it mattered.

-Efforts were made to overlay various maps with the Frostlands map.

-Peter stopped by to say it was a projection issue; the lines on the Frostlands map would curve at the bottom.

-Maresia gave us this lovely spherical projection of Roshar.

-Veil eyeballed latitude and longitude on the map of Roshar. (Peter confirmed that this gives the right general idea, though he hasn't compared it to the original; minor discrepancies may exist.)

-Should be noted that, while Peter gave us a couple nudges in the right direction, he also pointed out that this was not "The Thing" Brandon has been hinting at.

 

The study in madness that is pages 11-14

-Seriously, we all kinda descended into insanity for a while there.

-Kicked off when Luke.spence asked if we'd discovered "The Thing" and Peter popped into say, "No." (That was literally his entire post.)

-This happened.

-We got off on a lot of tangents that made the post count skyrocket but didn't actually advance our quest. Lots of laughter and crack theories, and then we finally refocused.

 

Observations covered more extensively in other topics

-Frostlands Map and Thaylen Glyphs

-Map Symbol

 

Unanswered but abandoned questions

-What's the significance of the double-line latitudes? Something to do with the moons?

-What's the significance of the compass roses on the Frostlands map? Suggestions to date include Oathgates, Shardpools, and Unmade. They connect to each other, but not always--suggesting there could be more beyond the borders of the map. Most have 16 lines, but not all.

-What's up with highstorms? The continent of Roshar covers nearly the entire western hemisphere, yet the storm covers the land in about a day, while taking a week or more to cover the other half of the globe and then return.

 

Interesting observations that are not "The Thing."

-The Sea of Lost Souls in Shadesmar corresponds to Alethkar, possibly in reference to the Recreance.

-The WoR (full-color) map has a signature and symbol in the lower corner. The signature may belong to Isasik Shulin (Royal Cartographor whose seal is on the WoK map.) The symbol also shows up on the sword stance scroll. It's not clear if the symbol indicates Isasik, Nazh, or someone/thing else.

-The symbols on the border of the WoR map correspond to the cymatic pattern for Akinah and the map symbol.

-The WoR map has several new cities labelled, but there doesn't seem to be anything significant about them (yet.)

-Shadesmar has mountains where the Purelake is, like the bead-ocean was superimposed on a pre-existing landscape. (So Shadesmar pre-dates Roshar?)

-The shape of Roshar stays the same from the Silver Kingdoms era through modern day. There are no plate tectonics at play, but erosion/crem build-up lead to a slow migration of the continent. Two possibilities here: erosion and deposition are so similar the shape of the continent doesn't change; or this is such a slow process that it hasn't changed more than half a kilometer or so over the last 4000-odd years (comparable to continental drift on Earth.)

-There are new islands in the modern maps. Unclear if the Reshi Isles are reproducing or if the modern map was just drawn with more detail.

-Isasik Shulin has a city named after him (or at least his family.)

-Roshar's archipelagos line up along perfect ellipses--although this is only true on the flat map projections and wouldn't hold up on a sphere.

 

Dead theories (through lack of evidence or just lack of interest.)

-Words and images in the texture of the WoR (full-color) map or in the pattern of mountain. We had several people trying to mess with contrast to clarify the "text" but never found anything concrete.

-Shape of the map/lines indicating somewhere to fold the map/overlap on itself. Never heard of anything being discovered through this method, or if it was even attempted.

-The "Ray-Letter" Theory. Possibility of a hidden message. Brought up here, expanded upon/disputed here.

-Superimposing the Surgebinding chart to reveal the secret. Don't know for sure if anyone tried this, but it didn't lead to any revelations.

-Radial glyphs behind the R in Roshar and around the compass look like the same glyph, just repeated a different number of times. The only possibly translations we've had are "R (for Roshar)" and "SasassasaS," so probably no Plains-Shattering revelation there.

-Drawing lines between cities reveals a glyph or cymatic pattern. There wasn't a lot of effort spent on this theory, since there are just so many cities and possible lines, and nothing Peter or Brandon has said suggests this is worth pursuing.

-Physical vs. digital map distinction. (The idea that a physical print of the map has something (e.g. under blacklight) not found on the digital map.) Never specifically refuted, but it sounds like any version of the Roshar map, physical or digital, works.

-It was noted that some wallpaper versions of the WoK map found on Isaac Stewart's website cut off the latitudes strangely, leaving ghost zeroes in the oceans. THIS IS NOT A CODE.

-Points of convergence obtained by duplicating/reflecting the compass rose might be significant (Shardpools were mentioned), but the discussion never really took off.

-Roshar (the continent) was originally on the sea floor but was then somehow exposed, possibly by tides. Someone suggested a 4th moon in geosynchronous orbit such that it's never visible from land creating a tidal trough.

-The highstorm was originally stationary and the crem built up into the continent. Then Honor arrived and moved the highstorm off the continent to allow for human life. Disputed because life on Roshar is well adapted to a cycle of highstorms, suggesting that this has been constant for a long time.

-Various theories about crem build up around Dawncities creating mountain ranges, ect. Not quite a death discussion, but largely accepted to be a tangent as it has little to do with math or the various hints we've received.

-The "Great Roshar-Shell Theory," which posits that the continent is a greatshell or thunderclast, possibly moving across the globe. Again, not quite dead, but also not quite relevant.

-The Highstorm used to travel the opposite direction.

-The planet rotates opposite Earth's rotation (debunked thanks to a book quote stating that the sun sets in the west.)

-Rosharan AonDor. Either it exists or it's developing, or something.

Incidentally, the dragon curve does tessellate. So the tessellation theory would hold true if Roshar is an eroded dragon curve.

[navybrandt]

Is it just me, or does Roshar look like this galaxy (but on its side):

From the website "The galaxy, titled NGC 4911, lies more than 320 million light-years away in the "Coma Cluster" of about 1,000 galaxies and islands of stars similar to the Milky Way."

[Veil]

I wish I knew more about math so I could really contribute to this conversation. Like I have no idea what Julia sets and Fatou sets are or whether they have anything at all to do with Roshar, but...

 

Come on. Tell me that doesn't look like Roshar.

 

Also, I like the sound of "Julia set behaviour is chaotic, while Fatou set behavior is regular/ordered." Sounds a bit like Honor and Cultivation to me.

 

(By the way, RShara, if you see this, it might be helpful to add the summary to your first post so newcomers to the thread can get caught up.)

[Jensen]

Ok, first time poster, long time lurker.

 

Going to wikipedia searching for the Julia set and using the same animation that Veil used I was able to produce this.

 

 

Mystery solved right?

[Jensen]

Adding a comment,

 

Was it not said earlier that the discovery would be cool, but isolated as well as telling us something about Roshar's past. Well I'm thinking that the animation at Wikipedia shows us how the continent has been built up by crem deposits throughout the millenia.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Julia_set_3d_slice_animation.ogg

[navybrandt]

By jove, I think you've got it!

[Sirscott13]

so julia set and fractals combine in the construction of roshar. Thats one up on the dawn cities haha

[WeiryWriter]

Ok, first time poster, long time lurker.

 

Going to wikipedia searching for the Julia set and using the same animation that Veil used I was able to produce this.

 

 

Mystery solved right?

 

Oh wow, that is pretty spot on.  I know that when Brandon/Isaac have discussed making the maps that Isaac had a lot of freedom in the final empire map but for Roshar Brandon gave him something and said "this is the shape to make it".  I think we just figured out what he gave Isaac?

[Grayv]

I'm still curious how the ever storm is going to affect the geography in the long run if they can't find a way to stop it.

[Veil]

Yeessssssssss.

 

Okay, now let's get a math major in here to tell us what this actually means. (I tried reading explanations of Julia sets on a couple math forums, but the chaos/order thing was literally all I got out of the jargon. Oops.)

 

Also, that Wikipedia animation is apparently a Julia set in four dimensions (and not the time-is-the-fourth-dimension 4D I'm at least kinda sorta acquainted with.) So.... no idea if that's significant or not. (Shadesmar is the 4th dimension?)

[PeterAhlstrom]

Took you guys long enough.