Islington Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Isn't there a quote about the landmass being on the back of a giant thing? Like, it goes something like "they could not live on the forbearance of his stillness forever" or something along those lines. I'll edit it in when I find it! EDIT: Ha! The wiki is the greatest thing man has invented since indoor plumbing and the firearm. "Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia" -From the diagram. Emphasis mine to prove my point and ignore everything that doesn't go along with my theory, as is proper of a scientist. Edited April 12, 2014 by Islington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Pretty sure Taln, Stonesinew, is the Ancient of Stones, who's held off the Desolations for 4500 yrs all by himself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islington Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Has someone called him that? Because I like the idea of a giant monster being the landmass of Roshar more than the idea that Heaven's Weirdest Angel is what's referenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andheiswitty Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) May have been posted already, since I didn't go through all 28 pages of posts, but I noticed on the map of Alethkar in WoK that the pattern of the Shattered Plains is clearly visible. Thought this was a fun "easter egg" that I would have never thought twice about until after WoR. Edit: Going back through the other maps in WoK, the pattern is also in the Kharbranth map and forms the compass in the black and white map of Roshar. There's also multiple patterns in the Frostlands map connected together with "travel" lines (maybe?). Edited April 12, 2014 by andheiswitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Roshar Greatshell is an awesome theory that I love, but I don't think that particular line is referring to it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) It's "Greatshells all the way down!" Edited April 12, 2014 by Aether 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erai Sedai Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 theres definitely something everyone is getting close to pointing out.. something odd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iarwainiel I Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) I just searched this topic and didn't see that anyone has theorized this yet - What if Roshar was assembled from pieces of other worlds, to serve as an arena where good and evil fight it out? So many different kinds of plants and animals, not to mention sentient humanoids. IIRC, there are a total of 10 planets in the cosmere, and there are 10 areas on the map of Roshar in the Silver Kingdoms. I also like the theories re: fractals above - there are just too many 10's, and too many instances of symmetry, for it not to be something like that. And I thought about it all being a greatshell too, though I agree that's not "math-related." (My initial theory was that Roshar was actually a plane, not a planet at all, and that Shadesmar would be the back side of the plane. But that theory got shot down by Brandon at the WoR signing - shucks, I thought I really had it figured out...) Edited April 13, 2014 by old aggie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 IIRC, there are a total of 10 planets in the cosmere, and there are 10 areas on the map of Roshar in the Silver Kingdoms. No, there are definitely more than 10 planets in the cosmere. There *are* ten core shardworlds, but then there are numerous minor shardworlds as well (of which we know two). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Pardon me to tooting my own horn, but in case anyone's interested, here's a List of the currently known Shardworlds and their respective Shards (or lack thereof). Edited April 13, 2014 by Aether 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I just searched this topic and didn't see that anyone has theorized this yet - What if Roshar was assembled from pieces of other worlds, to serve as an arena where good and evil fight it out? So many different kinds of plants and animals, not to mention sentient humanoids. IIRC, there are a total of 10 planets in the cosmere, and there are 10 areas on the map of Roshar in the Silver Kingdoms. I also like the theories re: fractals above - there are just too many 10's, and too many instances of symmetry, for it not to be something like that. And I thought about it all being a greatshell too, though I agree that's not "math-related." (My initial theory was that Roshar was actually a plane, not a planet at all, and that Shadesmar would be the back side of the plane. But that theory got shot down by Brandon at the WoR signing - shucks, I thought I really had it figured out...) 10 is the holy number of Honor, or something like that. Kind of like 16 and Preservation. The tens and the symmetry are probably related to the influences of Honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Looking back through this thread, Peter had to be referring to Shaggai's Dragon curve post. More specifically, a twindragon fractal with the eastern shore weathered away and Shinovar (the Alien landmass) dropped in the middle of the Misted Mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Odical Posted April 14, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) Hey Guys! Been a long time lurker round these parts, and the insanity this thread has caused most of us has finally projected me to surface my head from beneath these stormy waters, for my first post! So, do go easy on me if I make any mistakes on this post, and enjoy, criticize and delve into to your contentment =) now, onwards. So, after doing a little wikisurfing, and with credit to all the posts before this ( I do apologize if this has been mentioned before ), I think that the entirity of Roshar is either : a ) a giant fractal b ) governed by the pattern of a particular fractal now, this is purely based on this wikipedia page, but it sparked some pretty awesome revelations. Somewhere further down the page it states, with regard to Natural Phenomena with Fractal features : Approximate fractals found in nature display self-similarity over extended, but finite, scale ranges. The connection between fractals and leaves, for instance, is currently being used to determine how much carbon is contained in trees. Examples of phenomena known or anticipated to have fractal features are listed below: clouds river networks fault lines mountain ranges craters lightning bolts coastlines Mountain Goat horns animal coloration patterns Romanesco broccoli Pineapple Heart rates Heartbeat Earthquakes Snow flakes Crystals blood vessels and pulmonary vessels Ocean waves DNA various vegetables soil pores Psychological subjective perception looking at the list of fractal related natural phenomena, I couldn't help but think that perhaps with regard to most of the things on the list, that they ring a bell when it comes to thinking about them in the context of Roshar's anthropology, mythology, magic systems, geography and the number 10 of course. Now, I do apologize for any ineptitude displayed with regard to maths (it's not my strongest subject) but I do believe that the fractal pattern governing Roshar's self-similarity is inextricably linked with this number, so much so that it governs the pattern which Roshar the supercontinent matures by. Now, it's a bit of a long shot but hey, that's what speculation is, innit? =) So, there it is, do let me know on any areas I can improve! Oh, and i almost forgot, that last one there, yeah that last one on the list? Well, one wiki-click away blew my mind. (This one right here!) "The subjective character of experience is a term in psychology and the philosophy of mind denoting that all subjective phenomena are associated with a single point of view ("ego"). The term was coined and illuminated by Thomas Nagel in his famous paper What is It Like to Be a Bat?" I think the NAHEL bond was inspired by Thomas NAGEL's work! On the page, it states that : "Nagel argues that, because bats are apparently conscious mammals with a way of perceiving their environment entirely different from that of human beings, it is possible to speak of "what is it like to be a bat for the bat" or, while the example of the bat is particularly illustrative, any conscious species, as each organism has a unique point of view from which no other organism can gather experience.To Nagel, the subjective character of experience implies the cognitive closure of the human mind to some facts, specifically the mental states that physical states create. The subjectivity of perception of reality implies that perception of all of the things, concepts, and "truths" in the universe differ between individuals: we all live in different worlds, each of which may have things in common, because of our unique perspectives on our worlds. The only thing to which one can hold oneself is something one has experienced or perceived. Until someone has had an experience of something the object or concept within itself is not real. Someone in Africa is aware of the existence of fire and sees it but for an Eskimo who has never seen fire before the fire does not exist in the same way. The idea of the subjectivity of reality also hints at an aspect of moral relativism, that each person's opinions are the only things they can hold themselves to." I think that the Nahel bond too has to do with this self-symmetry that Roshar is governed by, and the phenomena regarding psychological subjective perception to be referred to as having fractal tendencies also has a part to play in this mystery. I think there's waaay more to this, but I'm tired, and I'm pretty confident that the Nahel bond and Thomas Nagel's work are somewhat connected, but I need to do a whole lot more research on this. Hopefully all you lovely people out there can dissect this and flesh it out into a bigger theory, with a whole lot more information! Cheers guys! =) Edited April 14, 2014 by Odical 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aheerema Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Nice work Odical, I think this is a beauty of a first post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrina Stormshard Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 How about it Peter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think I accidentally gave Odical a down vote. Somebody please correct that with a up vote. Then everybody else give an up vote. I really like that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I think I accidentally gave Odical a down vote. Somebody please correct that with a up vote. Then everybody else give an up vote. I really like that post. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoMancer Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I was just browsing through here, and something struck me as kind of odd right off of the bat (for several reasons...). This may not be pertinent, so feel free to shame me if needed. We know that there is no tectonic activity on Roshar, soooooo: where exactly did the continent come from? How are there mountains? Not only mountains, but mountain ranges (that appear to have no correlation to prevailing wind direction via highstorms.) Geologically, this map makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I was just browsing through here, and something struck me as kind of odd right off of the bat (for several reasons...). This may not be pertinent, so feel free to shame me if needed. We know that there is no tectonic activity on Roshar, soooooo: where exactly did the continent come from? How are there mountains? Not only mountains, but mountain ranges (that appear to have no correlation to prevailing wind direction via highstorms.) Geologically, this map makes no sense. The mountains were presumably created by whatever made the weird stuff with the shape. Incidentally, I looked over a dragon curve again, and Roshar would only look like it if part of the curve was removed. Edited April 14, 2014 by Shaggai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) It sure looks a lot like this to me. Mountains at the overlaps, north and south sides (Edit: also the east side) eroded due to high storms, and the Aimian Sea sunken due to the added weight of Shinovar. I'm assuming that Shinovar is at a higher elevation and was not part of the original world-building. Whether Shinovar is the seat (do Shards need a physical home?) of Cultivation and The Unclaimed Hills the former (now unclaimed) seat of Honor I'll leave to you to judge, but that is surely fodder for a different discussion. Edited April 14, 2014 by potato 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 440px-Lévy's_dragon_curve_(IFS)~2.jpg It sure looks a lot like this to me. Mountains at the overlaps, north and south sides (Edit: also the east side) eroded due to high storms, and the Aimian Sea sunken due to the added weight of Shinovar. I'm assuming that Shinovar is at a higher elevation and was not part of the original world-building. Whether Shinovar is the seat (do Shards need a physical home?) of Cultivation and The Unclaimed Hills the former (now unclaimed) seat of Honor I'll leave to you to judge, but that is surely fodder for a different discussion. That's a lot of erosion on the east, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasslehoff Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 First time poster, and I just want to say that I've been following the forum for awhile with regards to the Cosmere, and the map bit has really intrigued me. I know others have raised questions about how the mountains/continent itself was formed if there are not plate tectonic forces occurring, but what's up with the archipelagos? I don't understand what could possibly create islands could be created without plate tectonics and through that volcanoes, especially ones that look very similar to say... the Hawaiian Archipelago. I guess you could "magic" and answer up, like a God of some sort just threw down islands in a line in addition to the continent, but for some reason the islands have really bothered me. The shape of the continent is symmetrical (mostly) about the diagonal, but the islands are really a wild card to me. They aren't symmetrical really at all. Side note: In the Shadesmar map, there is a "mountain range" in the very center at the bottom. Are we to assume that the ocean is very shallow there? As shallow as the Purelake? Pretty random to me as well, but it may just be an artistic liberty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccstat Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 @ Odical, That Nagel::Nahel discussion is interesting in its own right. I suggest you start a dedicated thread to the nature and creative influences of the Nahel bond. As far as it relates to the map, I'm not sure about the fractal connections (in particular I don't understand the definition of fractal as relates to psychology), but there may be something there. @potato, thanks for posting that picture. I've been skimming most of the recent posts, and dismissed the "dragon curve" references as the supposed resemblance of the landmass to a dragon (which some insist on but I don't see). Your pic prompted me to look up various tilings of the dragon curve, and I'm definitely seeing a resemblance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 That's a lot of erosion on the east, though. No doubt. I've no geology background and no knowledge of what sort of rock the continent is formed of, but even on a condensed schedule of thousands of years, a weekly tsunami/storm surge is bound to cause massive erosion. I'm almost completely convinced that the whole landmass is lighter than water but somehow anchored in place, thus explaining the northern islands- they were blown off of the northeastern shore and arced back along the northern edge, becoming barrier islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasslehoff Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 No doubt. I've no geology background and no knowledge of what sort of rock the continent is formed of, but even on a condensed schedule of thousands of years, a weekly tsunami/storm surge is bound to cause massive erosion. I'm almost completely convinced that the whole landmass is lighter than water but somehow anchored in place, thus explaining the northern islands- they were blown off of the northeastern shore and arced back along the northern edge, becoming barrier islands. I think Sanderson said that the crem was his way of "scientifically/magically" ignoring erosion. Things don't erode in Roshar, they just get crem piled up. Remember how everything in the Parshendi city was covered in layers and layers of crem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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