Avandar

[OB] Azure

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Does anyone have a theory on 

Spoiler

Who made her sword

 

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I had guessed that she made it together with Vasher's help.  But we don't know how long she and Vasher have been separated, or how long she's had the sword, so it's hard to know.  It was probably Vasher though, just because she doesn't seem to be much older in Oathbringer than she is in Warbreaker (not much time has passed), and at the time of Warbreaker only Vasher probably would have been skilled enough with Awakening to bring to life an inanimate object.

 

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I guess from the Warbreaker annotations, that the sword was made by Yesteel, and he's dead between the events of Warbreaker and SA. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Lightsong Thinks about How Hallandren Wouldn't Fall

He's wrong here. If he hadn't intervened and taken responsibility, the God King would have died, and another Manywar would have begun. It would have ended with Hallandren in flames, destroyed by the advancing Idrian coalition, who by then would have gained the secret to creating swords like Nightblood from Yesteel, who is hiding in one of the kingdoms across the mountains and who secretly knows what Vasher did to create the sword. He would have brought his kingdom into the conflict. And the world would have burned.

source
Quote

Brandon Sanderson

First is Nightblood's mention of Yesteel. I believe this is the first mention of him in the book. If you've been paying attention, you probably realized that there was one person missing out of the Five Scholars. Vasher, Denth, Arsteel, Shashara . . . and this guy. You'll see him in the sequel. (And yes, he's much better at sneaking than Vasher or Vivenna.)

source

 

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Yeah, we know that Yesteel has the knowledge of how to construct another Nightblood and it seems more likely for him to have made the sword than for Vasher to have done so, given what the latter did to prevent that sort of thing from happening centuries earlier. Plus, you need a huge amount of Breath to Awaken metal over and above the amount you intend to put into the object. Vasher and Vivenna between them might have had about two thousand Breaths at the point when each first acquired their stores (Vasher had enough for the Fourth Heightening, Vivenna the Third) which isn't even a fifth of what you'd need. It's far easier to imagine Yesteel not only having retained a sufficient amount of Breath needed to Awaken metal since the Manywar but to be willing to do use it for that purpose.

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The main question is why Yesteel would want to make another Awakened sword? I would guess that he felt the need to counter Nightblood somehow, and made a blade specifically for fighting Nightblood. Having just another Awakened sword wouldn’t really benefit anyone, but a sword that can take on Nightblood? That would be neat.

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Can we all agree to call her new sword Whiteblood?

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1 hour ago, Patrick Star said:

Can we all agree to call her new sword Whiteblood?

I thought it was Dayblood? (fighter of Nightblood)

...I'll see myself out...

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Trying to give the sword a fan nickname would just confuse people since it will eventually have a proper name, Brandon just hasn't decided what it is yet.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Just wondering if I could ask what the name of Azure's sword was?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I'll RAFO it now. That's mostly a RAFO because I have several names that I have not-- it's a TBA, sorry. I was gonna stick it in, and then I just didn't. I wasn't satisfied.

source

 

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I've always called it Lightblood, but Dayblood is pretty cool too.

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Interesting thing to note is that Azure's sword is normal sized (someone correct me if I am wrong). Nightblood is larger than normal because it was designed for a Returned. So does this mean Azure's sword was not designed for a Returned? This might argue against Yesteel creating it for himself.

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4 minutes ago, shadowwisp said:

So does this mean Azure's sword was not designed for a Returned? This might argue against Yesteel creating it for himself.

It could still have been made by him. From the annotation snippet Calderis posted.

Quote

destroyed by the advancing Idrian coalition, who by then would have gained the secret to creating swords like Nightblood from Yesteel,

Brandon used "swords" plural here, and mentioned usage by the Idrian Coalition. Vasher(it was Vasher, right?) had a vision of Lifeless wielding Nightbloods.

Yesteel playing Blacksmith to the War Effort seems reasonable in the face of these things.

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People seem to have it in their mind that Nightblood is ENORMOUS. 

Book descriptions seem to fit it at about 55 - 65 inches in my eyes, thats about what a standard longsword is at their larger recorded sizes. 

I'm guessing it has a larger hilt for larger hands but the sword itself isn't some monstrosity out of final fantasy 

Edited by Xtafa
inches not cm
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1 hour ago, Xtafa said:

People seem to have it in their mind that Nightblood is ENORMOUS. 

Book descriptions seem to fit it at about 55 - 65 cm in my eyes, thats about what a standard longsword is at their larger recorded sizes. 

I'm guessing it has a larger hilt for larger hands but the sword itself isn't some monstrosity out of final fantasy 

Well, from the Coppermind Article on Nightblood:

Quote

Based on Vasher and Vivenna's statements, Nightblood could be around 53 all the way to 60 inches long overall, with a blade of around 43-46 inches long.


With the original variation of this statement being added in February 2015, looking like this:

Quote

based on Vasher's statements Nightblood could be around 52 inches overall with a blade around 43 inches.

The way you see it and the way Arook saw it are quite different, considering that 65 cm is just over 25 inches.


Brandon has compared Nightblood to the Claymore in Dark Souls, noting that said Claymore might be "a tad" bigger than Nightblood. The Claymore page on the Dark Souls Wiki has a link to a youtube video of the weapon moveset. In said video, the full sword looks to be a little over double the length of the player's arm(counting fist & shoulder), with the blade portion comprising 3/4ths of that length.

As an average 6 foot fellow, my arm is roughly 27.5 inches(counting fist & shoulder). Double that would be roughly 55 inches. Since the sword in the video is over double, this makes the Dark Souls Claymore nearly 5 feet in length, with Nightblood being "a tad smaller" than that. I'm forced to agree with Arook's wording in the Coppermind here and say that Nightblood stands around 4'8"

Edited by The One Who Connects
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Just now, Xtafa said:

Yeah sorry, updated my post with inches, didn't mean CM 

Eh, it got me to actually do the Claymore comparison, so it's all good.

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It might also be possible that Vivenna and the God King collaborated to make her sword. He has enough breaths and the tongue to do it and Vasher might have let a few too many things slip that enabled him and Vivenna to work it out or at least to the extent to make the sword that she has, not quite Nightblood. 

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3 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

It might also be possible that Vivenna and the God King collaborated to make her sword. He has enough breaths and the tongue to do it and Vasher might have let a few too many things slip that enabled him and Vivenna to work it out or at least to the extent to make the sword that she has, not quite Nightblood. 

This is possible, but I am inclined to think that the God King and Siri will not be very involved with the continuing events on Nalthis.  Their conclusion in WB seemed kind of like a "happily ever after" moment for me, whereas many roads and plot threads remained open for Vivenna and Vasher.  I would be honestly surprise if Siri and the God King were ever relevant to the cosmere again, just because their arc in Warbreaker seemed like a happy little self-contained love story.  

Edited by Llarimar
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On 5/21/2018 at 6:18 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

The main question is why Yesteel would want to make another Awakened sword? I would guess that he felt the need to counter Nightblood somehow, and made a blade specifically for fighting Nightblood. Having just another Awakened sword wouldn’t really benefit anyone, but a sword that can take on Nightblood? That would be neat.

This is a good question with an unsatisfying answer.  The thing is, there seem to be lots of ways to fight Nightblood without, well, actually fighting Nightblood.  I note that:

1) Not that many people can actually use Nightblood.  Most of them go into a mad, jealous rage; and most of the rest get queasy at just the thought of drawing the blade.

2) The few people who could draw Nightblood in a pinch would probably be promptly consumed by him.  Most of the world has only one Breath, if that, and it's not like Vasher goes around advertising "Hey, if you're going to draw this sword, make sure you have a lot of Breaths first, or else."

3) Vasher spends a respectable chunk of Warbreaker without Nightblood.  It's not all that hard to separate Vasher (or whoever) from his blade.  It's not like Nightblood's the sort of thing you have to worry about all the time.  Nightblood doesn't play any sort of role in the Vasher/Arsteel battle, IIRC.

Given all the above, why would anyone possibly waste thousands of Breaths in Awakening another sword just to counter Nightblood?  It seems like you could steal him away from whoever has him for a fraction of the Breath and effort.

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Speculation. Lifeless once used a LOT of breaths as well but after trial and error you can make them with next to nothing. 

Perhaps the process for awakening steel has also been refined, and assuming Azure's sword isn't as sentient as Nightblood, may need less breath in general. 

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21 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I vote that we name it Harold.

Sword, Harold be thy name.

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16 hours ago, Xtafa said:

Book descriptions seem to fit it at about 55 - 65 inches in my eyes, thats about what a standard longsword is at their larger recorded sizes.

I used to do HEMA. Our Feders (i.e. Longswords) were around 48-52 inches. The Montante is considered a greatsword, and is definitely larger (I don't have the exact measurements off hand). I would say Nightblood is similar to a Montante.

Of note, the Longswords in HEMA are larger than what I used to consider Longswords (from fantasy like D&D). They're more like what I would have called a bastard sword, in that they're meant to be primarily used two handed, but can be used one handed in a pinch (mostly for extended distance on thrusts and the sweep the leg technique. Anything else you lose too much structure). A Montante isn't being used one handed by normal people.

Of course Nightblood is modeled after a Shardblade, so it's probably got some mystical attributes that make it easier to use one handed.

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14 hours ago, Llarimar said:

This is possible, but I am inclined to think that the God King and Siri will not be very involved with the continuing events on Nalthis.  Their conclusion in WB seemed kind of like a "happily ever after" moment for me, whereas many roads and plot threads remained open for Vivenna and Vasher.  I would be honestly surprise if Siri and the God King were ever relevant to the cosmere again, just because their arc in Warbreaker seemed like a happy little self-contained love story.  

Think about that again.

Susebron is by far the most powerful being on Nalthis right now, unless Yesteel had also amassed a similar stockpile of Breaths dating back to the Manywar and has just been lying low all this time with it. And he's the first God King with a tongue, who is well past the Sixth Heightening of being able to do instinctive Awakening (as we saw at the end of Warbreaker), and can use his Breath to do far more than just to pass it on to the next God King with a mental Command (apparently the first and only Command the now-dead priests would have taught him, under normal circumstances).

I can't see Brandon just shrugging and saying, "OK, the most powerful being on Nalthis is a Returned who is now safely in power on the throne of the most powerful nation on Nalthis, entrusted with a nigh-unbeatable army in Kalad's Phantoms, is in personal and full possession of over 50,000 Breaths, is in a position to completely rebuild his priesthood's organization and mission, and now, with are more Cosmere events to play out there... he's a non-factor because he's happily married, 'nuff said!"

And what about Siri? Without making any obvious iPhone related jokes, given their relationship and his extremely restricted and sheltered life, which framework is now completely gone, she is going to be a key part of Susebron's conscience and moral development. If he does Awaken a sword like Hank to be a counter to Nightblood, it'd probably be at her prompting.

Edited by robardin
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20 hours ago, Llarimar said:

This is possible, but I am inclined to think that the God King and Siri will not be very involved with the continuing events on Nalthis.  Their conclusion in WB seemed kind of like a "happily ever after" moment for me, whereas many roads and plot threads remained open for Vivenna and Vasher.  I would be honestly surprise if Siri and the God King were ever relevant to the cosmere again, just because their arc in Warbreaker seemed like a happy little self-contained love story.  

5 hours ago, robardin said:

Think about that again.

Susebron is by far the most powerful being on Nalthis right now, unless Yesteel had also amassed a similar stockpile of Breaths dating back to the Manywar and has just been lying low all this time with it. And he's the first God King with a tongue, who is well past the Sixth Heightening of being able to do instinctive Awakening (as we saw at the end of Warbreaker), and can use his Breath to do far more than just to pass it on to the next God King with a mental Command (apparently the first and only Command the now-dead priests would have taught him, under normal circumstances).

I can't see Brandon just shrugging and saying, "OK, the most powerful being on Nalthis is a Returned who is now safely in power on the throne of the most powerful nation on Nalthis, entrusted with a nigh-unbeatable army in Kalad's Phantoms, is in personal and full possession of over 50,000 Breaths, is in a position to completely rebuild his priesthood's organization and mission, and now, with are more Cosmere events to play out there... he's a non-factor because he's happily married, 'nuff said!"

And what about Siri? Without making any obvious iPhone related jokes, given their relationship and his extremely restricted and sheltered life, which framework is now completely gone, she is going to be a key part of Susebron's conscience and moral development. If he does Awaken a sword like Hank to be a counter to Nightblood, it'd probably be at her prompting.

Yea, I was going to make a similar reply. I also felt at the end of WB that Susebron was going to be an actual ruler instead of just giving his Breath to another tongueless God King. Spoilers for Hero of Ages, Secret History and Mistborn Era 2 below:

Spoiler

Spook had a nice arc in the Hero of Ages and it felt like his story ended there as well, but he still had ramifications on the Cosmere at large in the form of helping Kelsier presumably get a new body and leaving the knowledge of Hemalurgy behind. 

 While I understand their story may be finished, Susebron and Siri will have had a lasting impact on Nalthis. And to any argument they wouldn't be a party to making Awakened weaponry, they already use Lifeless, nuff said. 

 

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Siri and Susebron will definitely have a continued impact... But the story were getting of Nalthis isn't planned to be about them.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Is the Warbreaker sequel gonna have Susebron and Siri?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It's Vivenna and Vasher. And new characters. You'll get an update in it, if I ever do it, what's going on, but it won't be focused on them.

source

 

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