Zelly

How to fix Nightbood

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So it's a sword, but it's alive.  But it's sword, so can't experience life as a human, which is the whole problem with the "destroy evil" command.

Could Nightblood be given the knowledge/experiences necessary to have him better grasp the natures of good and evil?  

Using metalminds and/or hermalurgy? (Can you spike a sentient sword?)

Boon/curse from the Nightwatcher?

Bonding with a human to create better understanding, something akin to the Nahel bond?

Could Nightblood be affected by emotional allomancy to experience greater emotions and make connections between actions and feelings?

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Given that Nightblood is sapient Investiture, he falls under the same general rule that 'Investiture resists Investiture' so he would be extremely difficult if not impossible to affect with something like Soothing/Rioting and I'm pretty sure he's immunte to hemalurgy on account of being effectively impossible to stick a spike into. Brandon has said that if you could develop a truly thinking machine in the Cosmere, it would develop a soul and could be spiked but Brandon has no idea how the logistics of that would work. I suspect the dificulty of getting a spike in Nightblood alone would rule it out though.

As for bonding with humans, that's pretty much what he does with anyone who he feeds on and who survives. Nightblood is clearly capable of learning from these people, but Brandon has said that some things are essentially hardwired into him due to the manner of his creation. Think of it as Read Only Memory which can't be changed or deleted. So, Shashara is alive, Vasher and Denth are still friends, etc. even when Nightblood should know otherwise. IE, Nightblood killed Shashara but that knowledge gets overridden by the ROM that says 'Shashara created you, Shashara is alive' no matter how many times Vasher might tell him otherwise. But like I said, Nightblood does have the capacity to learn, he just has certain blind spots.

Oh, and as a random aside since I found this while WoB hunting, Brandon was asked if Nightblood could form a Nahel Bond with a spren. Answer: Pretty farfetched.

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We've seen the commands on things with breath be changed, could nightbloods command not be changed?

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1 hour ago, Niteshado said:

We've seen the commands on things with breath be changed, could nightbloods command not be changed?

Lifeless are built with that specific reason in mind. Other things only change after pulling all the Breaths out.

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Just now, Kidpen said:

Lifeless are built with that specific reason in mind. Other things only change after pulling all the Breaths out.

Gotcha, thank you

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Nightblood is perfect thank you very much

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Someone needs to try adding a gem socket to the pommel :P

 

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21 hours ago, King Cole said:

Nightblood is perfect thank you very much

Yes yes he's a very sweet and endearing thing, other than the whole eating people's life essence away until they die in a poof of smoke thing. :P  I think he'd actually be distraught about his own abilities, if he had a better understanding of what distraught even meant.

The metalmind thing I think is interesting.  I'm bad with Scadrial magic systems, what would it take for Nightblood to be able to access a metalmind of memories, emotions, choices, action/consequences, etc?

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1 minute ago, Zellyia said:

Yes yes he's a very sweet and endearing thing, other than the whole eating people's life essence away until they die in a poof of smoke thing.

He's just a bit quirky

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On 18.05.2018 at 11:01 PM, Zellyia said:

Yes yes he's a very sweet and endearing thing, other than the whole eating people's life essence away until they die in a poof of smoke thing. :P  I think he'd actually be distraught about his own abilities, if he had a better understanding of what distraught even meant.

His problem is not his lack of understanding of evil, he can solve his lack of knowlege by bonding people (like Vasher).

His problem is the leaking investiture, what causes him to loose his mind when unshiethed (idk if that's the right word) and eating soul of his owner (vaporizing enemies is a feature). 

Solutions (Oathbringer spoilers):

Spoiler

Since he is leaking the simplest solution that could theoritically work is help of high-level bondsmith. Since they can repair things mabye that would make him not leaking. Otherwise mabue helping fabrial woud help, like strenghtening fabrial - that might make him stay aware and not become HYPER METAL, but still would drain investiture, so it is ot worth the work.

Another idea would be to give him a gem, and enprison inside a Shardblade-Spren, dedeye or living. If done right (mabye by bondsmith) it could create symbiosys - Nightblood nightbloods, and spren shardblades. Nightblood and a deadeye ashspren would make a nice dynamic duo.

 

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On 5/17/2018 at 7:05 PM, Kidpen said:

Lifeless are built with that specific reason in mind. Other things only change after pulling all the Breaths out.

Oathbringer:

Spoiler

Seems like that may not necessarily be true. Hoid seemed to be able to change an awakened dolls commands without "resetting" it.

 

 

Quote

“That’s too bad,” Wit said. He raised the doll to his lips, then whispered a choice set of words. When he set it down, it started to walk on its own.

.......

Quote

He hesitated, then leaned down and touched the doll in the child’s hands. “Forget what I told you before,” he whispered. “Instead, take care of her.

 

Edited by shadowwisp
added the specific qoutes
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8 hours ago, shadowwisp said:

Oathbringer:

  Hide contents

Seems like that may not necessarily be true. Hoid seemed to be able to change an awakened dolls commands without "resetting" it.

Interesting observation. But that's one case where We Don't Really Know What Heightening He Is (at least the Second - this would imply a much higher one), Or What Else He's Got Going On.

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On 6/4/2018 at 4:45 PM, Szmit said:

His problem is the leaking investiture, what causes him to loose his mind when unshiethed (idk if that's the right word) and eating soul of his owner (vaporizing enemies is a feature). 

I think you have it backwards.  The smoke is the byproduct of him consuming the wielder's Breaths, not the cause.  

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3 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I think you have it backwards.  The smoke is the byproduct of him consuming the wielder's Breaths, not the cause.  

We have WOB that nightblood is "leaky".

Plus in oathbringer

Spoiler

his victims become smoke, and later he absorbs part of that smoke

 

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On 6/8/2018 at 7:11 PM, Szmit said:
On 6/8/2018 at 3:08 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

I think you have it backwards.  The smoke is the byproduct of him consuming the wielder's Breaths, not the cause.  

We have WOB that nightblood is "leaky".

Plus in oathbringer

  Hide contents

his victims become smoke, and later he absorbs part of that smoke

 

Yes, the breaths/other investiture that Nightblood consumes is "leaked" back out in a corrupted form (the black smoke).  However, it is not the leaking that causes Nightblood to "lose his mind" and "eat the soul of his owner."  

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22 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Yes, the breaths/other investiture that Nightblood consumes is "leaked" back out in a corrupted form (the black smoke).  However, it is not the leaking that causes Nightblood to "lose his mind" and "eat the soul of his owner."  

Because he is leaky he gets hungry, and as we know from OB 

Spoiler

He wouldnt be eating Lift or Szeth if he wasnt verry hungry 

And the only time when he doesnt loose his mind, is when he is in the sheath, what makes him protected from leaking.

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If Shashara were still alive could she hypothetically pull the breath back from nightblood and would A: She would get all the other investiture he has collected in addition to her own or B: Would only her original breaths come back to her but Nihgtblood would still retain sentience from the investiture he has collected?

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2 hours ago, mr.bug said:

If Shashara were still alive could she hypothetically pull the breath back from nightblood

No. In creating a sentient or sapient being, you would be giving it an Identity of its own. 

Just like a lifeless, that breath is now keyed, and belongs completely, to Nightblood. 

Edited by Calderis
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On 5/18/2018 at 4:01 PM, Zellyia said:

metalmind thing I think is interesting.  I'm bad with Scadrial magic systems, what would it take for Nightblood to be able to access a metalmind of memories, emotions, choices, action/consequences, etc?

Well nightblood would have to be born with Terri’s genes , so he could possibly have the gene that allows humans to become ferrings or full ferachemist . Since  he wasn’t there is zero chance he could use a metalmind. However , just speculation perhaps if somebody tied one of the medallions from southern scadrial that anyone touching could use there might be a tiny chance he could use one as long as it had connection as one of its 3 abilities. Although I can’t think of any abilities that nightblood could use as a sword , he can’t use pewter or steel . Would have no need of brass as he is a sword and doesn’t get cold. He might be able use a coppermind and learn things . Or if there’s is a ferachemical power that perhaps that drains investiture at range he could possibly use that to become more deadly and drain investiture at a distance , brutal . But most metalminds are useless for nightblood because he is a sword , unless it’s a cognitive type ability.

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On 5/18/2018 at 5:01 PM, Zelly said:

Yes yes he's a very sweet and endearing thing, other than the whole eating people's life essence away until they die in a poof of smoke thing. :P 

Hmm. Would getting drained of the "spark of life" that is the final amount of innate Investiture for a living person be the same thing as getting cut by Nightblood's blade? I always pictured it more like what happened to Lightsong after giving his Divine Breath to Susebron.

The "partial spark-of-life draining" we see when people get close to that absolute limit - Lolan, the guy who started drawing Nightblood in the Court of Gods, and later Szeth and Lift - ends up draining colors from the person's hand, with streaks of colorlessness reaching up towards the person's head (hello, "Crazyface" Szeth). I think if Nightblood hadn't been interrupted, the "colorless streaks" would end up over the entire body, resulting in a body drained of color - and of life - but not physically poofed (and perhaps not "severed" on the Spiritual level, either?).

 

Edited by robardin
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