EighttrackListener

[OB] Thoughts on the Adhesion Surge

12 posts in this topic

A string of thoughts, feel free to smash them to bits.

I was rereading OB last night and got through the chapter where Kaladin used a surge to split the Highstorm around him to help a group of people to safety. I believe the consensus is that Kaladin used adhesion to create a bubble of high pressure around him.  This caused me to think about what would it look like to have all of the Windrunners do this together, maybe a  "Windrunner" storm aimed at the highstorm. "Wait a minute someone already did that, the "Stormform Army" made the Everstorm" I think the singing Stormformers at the end of WoR were using adhesion to create high and low pressure areas in the atmosphere to summon the Everstorm. "So how does a Singer in Stormform "throw" lighting?" 

This is really where I want some help and maybe a WoB on what the limits might be on adhesion to create an area of high pressure.

Is it possible to compress enough air into a small volume to convert the air into plasma(lightning) outside of a star?

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welp, scientifically your question goes way over my head. Sorry.   But I'm going to post some possibly related WoB in the name of potentially helping.

Most interesting:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Could a Windrunner in Shardplate travel to other planets?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Uh, theoretically possible. Take a long time.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, it would. 'Cause he wouldn't need to breathe, if he's got enough Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah, well, I mean, they can control pressure, so. You'd need oxygen scrubbers, but they can also, so... you can create a ball of air around yourself with their power anyway, so--

source

Others, less relevant?

Spoiler
Quote

the other Nathan

If a large group of Windrunners lashed enough mass towards a single point, could they create a black hole?

Brandon Sanderson

Offhand, I think that would be theoretically possible, though in practicality impossible. We'd need [Peter Ahlstrom] to do some math.

source
Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

For a Windrunner, if he had enough heating fabrials and enough Stormlight, how high up could he get?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You could exit orbit. Windrunners, remember they're gravitation and pressure. So if he knew what he was doing, we have actually factored how long it would take to get to the various moons.

source
Quote

Bat_Mannington

If a Windrunner lashed Wax upwards, could he dump all of his weight into his metalminds and be unaffected or would the lashing affect his clothes and whatever else he had on him too?

Brandon Sanderson

Wax could mitigate the effect (unless he was in a vacuum) but not eliminate it completely.

faragorn

Vacuum or freefall?

It can be easy to confuse them in the context of surface to orbit.

Brandon Sanderson

I was talking about a Vacuum, but it's good to clarify. What I'm saying is that without wind resistance, his mass doesn't matter--and the books have established that what Wax does is a freakish transformation of his mass, not just his weight.

Kaladin changes how much gravity pulls on someone, and in what direction. Wax (basically, it's more complex than this) changes how much mass he has. The two, then, have some very distinctive effects.

source

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Everstorm isn't only a Storm. Regardless of how much pressure you could gather.

In theory yeah enough Pressure users could generate a Storm but the Invested mostruosities that are the Highstorms and Everstorm aren't Simply Storm.

 

About your Lightning by Pressure manipulation... It's possible in theory but It will require a proibitive amount of Investiture. Far beyond the One a magic user could manage normally.

We are probably in the same realm of "Lightweaver producing DeathStar's laser"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Yata said:

The Everstorm isn't only a Storm. Regardless of how much pressure you could gather.

In theory yeah enough Pressure users could generate a Storm but the Invested mostruosities that are the Highstorms and Everstorm aren't Simply Storm.

 

About your Lightning by Pressure manipulation... It's possible in theory but It will require a proibitive amount of Investiture. Far beyond the One a magic user could manage normally.

We are probably in the same realm of "Lightweaver producing DeathStar's laser"

Well Preservation can overcharge Allomancy so mabye Odium can overcharge Voidbinding?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Szmit said:

Well Preservation can overcharge Allomancy so mabye Odium can overcharge Voidbinding?

Every Shard could overcharge whatever magic he wants.

But simply the amount of Investiture to make something like that is beyond the scope of a mortal regardless.

Nothing in the Stormform shows a overcharging of sort. While this is usually very explicit...of course nothing is set into Stone.

But the lightnings seem to be' a standard Stormform's Power rather than a special instance gifted by peculiar scenarios

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/16/2018 at 0:39 AM, Yata said:

The Everstorm isn't only a Storm. Regardless of how much pressure you could gather.

In theory yeah enough Pressure users could generate a Storm but the Invested mostruosities that are the Highstorms and Everstorm aren't Simply Storm.

IIRC  the Regal use Investiture at a slower rate then KR but we have never seen them run out the same way. I was assuming the battle at the end of WoR took hours which would make it the only time we have of an large group continually Investing one thing over a long period of time that I can remember in all of the Cosmere except maybe Nightblood but Nightbloods creation hasn't made it on scrren yet. I was thinking that the physical portion of the storm was what the Parsh were making and then Odium took care of the rest after he had a vehicle to attach everything to.

On 5/16/2018 at 0:39 AM, Yata said:

About your Lightning by Pressure manipulation... It's possible in theory but It will require a proibitive amount of Investiture. Far beyond the One a magic user could manage normally.

We are probably in the same realm of "Lightweaver producing DeathStar's laser"

On 5/16/2018 at 0:45 PM, Yata said:

Every Shard could overcharge whatever magic he wants.

But simply the amount of Investiture to make something like that is beyond the scope of a mortal regardless.

Nothing in the Stormform shows a overcharging of sort. While this is usually very explicit...of course nothing is set into Stone.

But the lightnings seem to be' a standard Stormform's Power rather than a special instance gifted by peculiar scenarios

I agree that the amount of control plus the amount of sheer Investiture required to ionize the air enough to make lightning is improbable but I am having trouble associating any of the other surges to lightning other then possibly Division just ripping the electrons out of their orbits but...

Questioner

The Division Surge: does it actually split atoms or does it split the bonds of molecules?

Brandon Sanderson

It splits the bonds of molecules, it does not split atoms.

Questioner

That would be completely overpowered.

Brandon Sanderson

I have done an atom splitting magic originally in Dragonsteel. And wooow it was overpowered. So really, this is fiddling... You'll see what it does when I use it, but we'll not be splitting atoms. We're not creating nuclear reactio... or fission, so.

So maybe we got something where Division can take electrons off of atoms but cannot touch the nucleolus???

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that Dalinar uses adhesion to learn languages, could it be used as a magic hack for Duraluminum feruchemy?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they are ever so slightly different, kinda like a screw versus a bolt. Could you use one instead of the other? Maybe, but they function best in different ways.

Edited by EighttrackListener
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so, we see in BoM that Connection's main physical realm use is to act as a translator, Adhesion does the same thing when used as a spiritual/cognitive surge. I think they are similar enough to be used as a hack for each other. So yes, screw vs bolt, but similar enough to be used as a entry into either magic system.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pretty sure that Spiritual adhesion is the ability to create Connections.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct, Spiritual adhesion is used to create a Connection between the Bondsmith and others. The reason I am thinking that it behaves slightly differently to duralumin feruchemy is that I don't think we have seen a quickening of a trusting relationship because of direct use of spiritual adhesion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading this thread I feel that I may have something mistaken.  For some reason I was under the impression that the Adhesion surge did not exist in Voidbinding.  I did read Oathbringer very quickly and may just have conflated the lack of a Bondsmith analogue with the surge not being present in the system.  In regards to the diversion of the storm or rather weaponizing a storm I am not entirely sure if the Everstorm was summoned as a direct result of surges.  I imagine that since the surges are all just natural forces they would have had to be manipulated on some level either directly or indirectly by Odium.  We have seen that shards, if their intent allows and they are not opposed by another force, are able to move planets in orbit.  What happened on Scadrial at the end of Era 1 Mistborn definitely involved the forces that surges grant access to.  And in reference to the discussion of Connection and Spiritual Adhesion we can assume that direct manipulation of the surges and attributes can be accomplished with varying results with different magic systems and by extension different Shardic investiture.  

All of that aside, I feel that the practical application for Windrunners would involve manipulating a storm while they fought in it.  Serving as human windbreaks for forces on the ground and causing mayhem and mischief for the enemy.  I think summoning a storm using the surges is more than possible, but I doubt it will be done by Windrunners.  It doesn't really seem like something that they would do.  Besides that, usage of surges in that way may be what led to the destruction of Ashyn.  I imagine that what the Stormfather does on some level is try to keep the weather patterns on Roshar stable, relative to normal Roshar weather of course, and mitigate the negative effects that the usage of surges has on the stability of the planet.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.