Sherlock Holmes Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 I noticed, while listening to Oathbringer, that it was incredibly boring and drawn-out, made sport of Kaladin a lot, and also, uh... Kaladin's baby brother never comes up in any other part of the book at all, like Brandon just stuck that part in there just before releasing. This book definitely could've been a lot shorter, and maybe also WAY less dramatic. Does anybody else think that this isn't Brandon's best work? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naurock Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 Welcome to the Shard! Hey, you're on the Stormlight Archive forum, but this post needs to go in the Oathbringer spoiler board. Also needs [OB] before the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarian AL Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 But I loved OB :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammanas Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 We have a few threads of people who have expressed similar disappointments so you are not alone. Welcome to the shard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 I loved Oathbringer, but to each their own. There have definitely been others that have raised various concerns over OB, so you are definitely not alone. Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 @AxeliustheGreat I don't really think that the book was making sport of Kaladin - he was just having tons of struggles this book, which is what it was all about. Faces struggles and learning to cope with them. Plus, he isn't the main character, so it makes sense that he got less time in the book than he has in past books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomdrinker Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 After giving oathbringer more time and reading all of mistborn era 1 and 2 I feel like it's now one of my least favourite Sanderson books. Having said that I did love reading OB and still enjoy it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomedes Posted May 10, 2018 Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 18 hours ago, AxeliustheGreat said: I noticed, while listening to Oathbringer, that it was incredibly boring and drawn-out, made sport of Kaladin a lot, and also, uh... Kaladin's baby brother never comes up in any other part of the book at all, like Brandon just stuck that part in there just before releasing. This book definitely could've been a lot shorter, and maybe also WAY less dramatic. Does anybody else think that this isn't Brandon's best work? Remember: Sequels always have to be bigger, as some Ardent said. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted May 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: @AxeliustheGreat I don't really think that the book was making sport of Kaladin - he was just having tons of struggles this book, which is what it was all about. Faces struggles and learning to cope with them. Plus, he isn't the main character, so it makes sense that he got less time in the book than he has in past books. It was making fun of Kaladin. He'll just be strollin' along, when all of a sudden, BOOM, he'll be crying because of his baby brother, or be too weak-willed to make sacrifices to help other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin Zahel Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 When I read OB I was pretty disappointed. It felt like the most Hollywood-esque of Brandon's works. Every other book of his has felt organic and naturally intriguing throughout. This one felt very formulaic and missing the soul of his other works. But, this forum has helped keep things interesting with the continued predictions and discourse. P.S. I watched The Last Jedi shortly after finishing OB and that movie also helped make me like OB better due to TLJ being a much bigger disappointment 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted May 11, 2018 Report Share Posted May 11, 2018 Kaladin was great in OB. He didn’t steal the show, and didn’t become superman. His character had some great development, and I’m glad the ending didn’t wind up being ”Kaladin saves the day” yet again. That would have been both boring and annoying. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarimar Posted May 12, 2018 Report Share Posted May 12, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 7:39 PM, Kaladin Zahel said: P.S. I watched The Last Jedi shortly after finishing OB and that movie also helped make me like OB better due to TLJ being a much bigger disappointment Haha I totally agree! I was greatly disappointed by The Last Jedi as well, and comparing that movie with my initial disappointment for Oathbringer, it's reminded me that I've been kind of spoiled by the quality of Brandon's books! I've come to expect a higher standard from Sanderson - OB was mediocre for a Sanderson book (in my opinion), but incredible by any other standard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 6:05 PM, AxeliustheGreat said: It was making fun of Kaladin. He'll just be strollin' along, when all of a sudden, BOOM, he'll be crying because of his baby brother, or be too weak-willed to make sacrifices to help other people. The man has both Depression and PTSD, along with dealing with the moral dilemmas for half a book. I'd cut him some slack. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted May 15, 2018 Report Share Posted May 15, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 9:39 PM, Kaladin Zahel said: When I read OB I was pretty disappointed. It felt like the most Hollywood-esque of Brandon's works. Every other book of his has felt organic and naturally intriguing throughout. This one felt very formulaic and missing the soul of his other works. But, this forum has helped keep things interesting with the continued predictions and discourse. P.S. I watched The Last Jedi shortly after finishing OB and that movie also helped make me like OB better due to TLJ being a much bigger disappointment On 5/12/2018 at 2:12 AM, Llarimar said: Haha I totally agree! I was greatly disappointed by The Last Jedi as well, and comparing that movie with my initial disappointment for Oathbringer, it's reminded me that I've been kind of spoiled by the quality of Brandon's books! I've come to expect a higher standard from Sanderson - OB was mediocre for a Sanderson book (in my opinion), but incredible by any other standard. This is probably very off-topic, but why were you two both disappointed by TLJ? I felt it was really amazing and actually really related to the moral ideas of OB. (If this is too off-topic, we can make a PM or something because I actually want to talk about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 8 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: This is probably very off-topic, but why were you two both disappointed by TLJ? I felt it was really amazing and actually really related to the moral ideas of OB. Not OP, but the movie has multiple failings in terms of plot and character. We waited 34 years to see Luke on the big screen again, and we find out that he's gone full emo on us and spends 90% of the movie whining about how bad the force is, then dies. The whole mutiny plot with Poe was idiotic from the start. Clear orders from command would have caused none of the movie to happen in the first place. Instead of giving orders like "We pass an old outpost in a bit. We'll cloak transporters and escape while they focus fire on the main ship", they instead just go "oh we'll just wait here to die, k?" Then, if those orders come through, Rei gets trapped on Ren's ship. It's like the transitive property of plot holes. Finn starts off as a wuss and tries to desert. Poe's opening scene was out of place. No way in hell both Rose and Finn make it out of that final battle alive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llarimar Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 10 hours ago, StrikerEZ said: This is probably very off-topic, but why were you two both disappointed by TLJ? I felt it was really amazing and actually really related to the moral ideas of OB. This is a bit long, sorry... There were a lot of people who were disappointed by TLJ (just judging by online fan reception, and conversations I've had with friends of mine), and I think that most of them disliked the movie for the reasons that @Patrick Star listed - the characterization of Luke was a big letdown and there were numerous plot holes and storyline issues. While these things did bother me however, I disliked TLJ for a different reason. I think that Star Wars means different things to different people - for some people, they love the characters and the stories in Star Wars, which is why they were disappointed that Luke Skywalker was whiny and disgruntled in TLJ and that the plot had numerous holes. However, the reason why I love Star Wars is because of the distinctive imagery and the worldbuilding of the Star Wars universe. For this reason, I have never hated the prequel movies as much as some people do, because the prequel movies are filled with fascinating cultures and planets and very distinctive imagery, from Coruscant to Naboo to Geonosis. Entire Star Wars videogames have been made based on 10-second clips from the prequel movies, because every location in the movies is so visually unique and memorable. The prequel movies are also very different from the originals - there are no "recycled" planets or locations. The sequel trilogy, by contrast (The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi) has been completely the opposite in my opinion. Every planet, culture and location has been a knock-off of the original trilogy. Starkiller Base is the Death Star, Moz Kanata's hideout is the Cantina Band, Jakku is a worse version of Tatooine, the salt-flats planet at the end of TLJ is basically just Hoth and the costumes and weaponry of the First Order are exactly the same as the Empire. There is almost nothing unique or different about the sequels, whereas everything about the prequel trilogy is different and unique from the originals. At the time of the prequels being released, I think the fact that they were so different may have been off-putting for fans of the originals, but now, fans of Star Wars just view the prequels as part of the universe. I feel like the entire sequel trilogy has been an apology for the prequels, as if Disney is saying "Sorry George Lucas screwed up so much, here are the follow-up movies you actually wanted," but in doing so they have made the sequels a literal knock-off of the originals, thereby removing everything that I personally love about Star Wars, which is the uniqueness and the distinctive imagery of each movie. Both the original movies and the prequels have very unique planets and distinctive worldbuilding, and they contribute a great deal to the Star Wars universe. The sequel movies on the other hand contribute almost nothing to the Star Wars universe in terms of worldbuilding and the larger universe. So there are many reasons why I dislike TLJ, but that is the main one - I see them as much less heartfelt and "real" than the George Lucas movies, because all of the planets, cultures and imagery are much less memorable and less imaginative. Basically, they seem less like creative, exciting science fiction movies that you can love and cherish forever, and more like big-budget money-producing Disney movies that you forget shortly after leaving the theater. Oh, and also, I hated the whole casino sequence with Finn and Rose. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWednesday Posted May 16, 2018 Report Share Posted May 16, 2018 Kaladin was never 'made sport of.' His depression and PTSD are reoccurring, frequently rearing their heads at the worst times.... But they are never made light of. Brandon portrays them in an extremely realistic way(Based on the posts I've read from people suffering from such issues) and calling him a crybaby/weak-willed is just insensitive in the face of how heavy a burden depression or PTSD can be. The criticism about Kaladin's brother seems a tad unfair as well. You need to keep in mind that this series is planned to have 10 books. Things will be brought up only for usage in future. Not to mention that even with Brandon's decent juggling skills, there simply won't be time for some characters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diomedes Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 @AxeliustheGreatI wrote something a while ago on another thread, on what is "up" with Oathbringer. So here you go with some minor alterations: The big "problem" I think a lot of people have with OB that no grand expectation is set or promise made for the last few hundred pages or so. In WoK we had Dalinar vs Sadeas and the situation of Bridge Four and indeed these issues were met by the end of WoK. In WoR an even greater expectation was resolved that the war against the Parshendi would end which we had expected since the beginning of WoK. OB is different. The big villain is Odium but we also know that he is not going to be defeated in this book. There is no plan how to challange him, no ring to throw into Mt. Doom, no Death Star to destroy, no Horcruxes to kill, you get the point. All plotlines hang in a void without some big expectation to tie them all together. Instead the characters stumble along for the last act to arrive. I mean they literally stumble through the Perpendicularity into Thaylen! We could not have expected the books resolution there. This lack of a bigger expectation makes for a somewhat confusing read. This does not make OB a bad book, just an unusual one. I did not like it as much as WoR but it is still damnation good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted May 17, 2018 Report Share Posted May 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, Diomedes said: @AxeliustheGreatI wrote something a while ago on another thread, on what is "up" with Oathbringer. So here you go with some minor alterations: The big "problem" I think a lot of people have with OB that no grand expectation is set or promise made for the last few hundred pages or so. In WoK we had Dalinar vs Sadeas and the situation of Bridge Four and indeed these issues were met by the end of WoK. In WoR an even greater expectation was resolved that the war against the Parshendi would end which we had expected since the beginning of WoK. OB is different. The big villain is Odium but we also know that he is not going to be defeated in this book. There is no plan how to challange him, no ring to throw into Mt. Doom, no Death Star to destroy, no Horcruxes to kill, you get the point. All plotlines hang in a void without some big expectation to tie them all together. Instead the characters stumble along for the last act to arrive. I mean they literally stumble through the Perpendicularity into Thaylen! We could not have expected the books resolution there. This lack of a bigger expectation makes for a somewhat confusing read. This does not make OB a bad book, just an unusual one. I did not like it as much as WoR but it is still damnation good. I think this is a very good explanation, and I also like how you use Brandon's own terminology (or at least terminology I know from him originally) in explaining the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted May 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2018 Guys, I’m sorry that I didn’t know that Kaladin has PTSD. Sorry people, I may have been insensitive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts