[OB] Ideas on how to eliminate the Fused problem

[Gasper]

How would you go about removing the Fused from the equation? They are the Odium version of the Knights Radiant and have an additional benefit of being placed in new bodies every time they are kill, singer bodies specifically. That means they never have to relearn any abilities. Their downside is that they are slowly going crazy. I want to know if the 17th shard has any ideas/methods to remove the Fused from the equation. I think that they will eventually need to learn how either contain them, destroy them, or find a way to end the regeneration cycle. 

[+Harrycrapper]

Nightblood

[Stark]

Take out the Cylon Ressurection ship.

 

End the Everstorm.

 

Nightblood.

 

Take out Odium.

 

Stop killing them and break their connection to voidlight, so that they are trapped in one body, imprison them, and rehabilitate them.  Have everyone sit and talk about their feelings.

 

Xenocide (Please do not use this option)

 

Show the parsh how bad an idea it is to consent to possession during an Everstorm, thereby removing their supply of fresh bodies.

 

Nightblood.

 

Hemalurgy?

 

Find a worse enemy than the humans to give human and parsh common cause together, so fused and radiant must stand side by side or face oblivion.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Stark
One last idea.

[Patrick Star]

Use Dimensional Barrier and declare Fusion monsters.  Fused won't be able to pop up for a turn afterwards.

Other Floodgates would probably work too.  Vanity's Emptiness would be fantastic to side in against the fused.

I'm hesitant to say that Necrovalley, Dimensional Fissure, or Macro Cosmos would be good, since we don't know whether the Fused get sent to the graveyard or banished when they are killed.

Seeing as Odium technically has to tribute a Parshendi to create a fused, Mask of Restrict may work as well, but we'll need a judge to rule on that one.

If you can protect them, Majesty's Fiend and Vanity's Fiend are good choices as well, but less consistent and harder to summon.

Kaijus are a bad option here unless you're sure you can OTK.

I think the best way to counter Odium's deck is to go first and keep him from getting Everstorm out.  That field spell provides ridiculously powerful revival effects and lets him plus like crazy.  3 Ghost Ash and 3 Ghost Ogre are a must.

[Ryder]

In addition to Nightblood, I think the scene where Syl kills the spren that's tormenting Gavinor at the end of the Kholinar sequence is forshadowing shardblades somehow being able to kill Fused.  I'm guessing becoming a Fused is like becoming a Regal except with the soul/cognitive shadow of one of the old singers inhabiting the gemheart instead of a voidspren.  If Syl can "kill" a spren (whatever that means), she should be able to kill the Fused soul.  The question of course is what happens to the Fused soul after the gemheart is broken?  They don't return to Braize, but do they go to the Everstorm?  The cognitive realm?  I think if you could find one outside of a gemheart, Syl or other blades (maybe only live ones?) could kill them.  The KR will need something that can keep them dead eventually, as Nightblood is only one sword.

[Gasper]

If there was a way that the Parshendi could survive with out their gem hearts, then it would be simple. Use a sonic weapon to shatter the gem hearts of every Parshendi on the planet. No gem hearts, no Fused, problem solved.

[teknopathetic]

Soulcast Singers into aluminum statues, and whenever possible do so in an entirely aluminum building that functions as a prison. 

Whatever is resurrecting the Fused must be investiture-based, and my guess is Fused-Souls encased in aluminum will be able to go to the beyond, but wont be able to return to Braize. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by teknopathetic

[dvoraen]

Just get Yelig-nar to consume them.  Easy!

 

On the serious, though, I wonder if it's possible to contain them in a gemstone the way that normal spren and the Unmade can be.

[Leuthie]

You'd need a lot of gemstones.

If there were a simple way to contain the Fused, Honor wouldn't have created the Oathpact, sending 10 heroes to be tortured for hundreds of years at a time to hold them back.

So far, Nightblood is the only big addition to the world since then capable of removing Fused from the board.

[teknopathetic]

15 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

You'd need a lot of gemstones.

If there were a simple way to contain the Fused, Honor wouldn't have created the Oathpact, sending 10 heroes to be tortured for hundreds of years at a time to hold them back.

So far, Nightblood is the only big addition to the world since then capable of removing Fused from the board.

I am so curious to know what happens if you use the blade during an Everstorm... Could it eat the whole thing considering Nightblood consumes exponentially? Maybe Szeth couldn't use Voidlight it, but what about Venli?

[Weltall]

Well, there's Jasnah's suggestion of finding some Heralds and stabbing them in the face. If having a Herald actively participating in the Oathpact can strengthen it (because after 4500 years of just Taln, it was very weak and now he's reincarnated) then it may be possible to close whatever loophole Odium is exploiting to have the Fused perpetually reincarnate.

Brandon has RAFO'd whether Nightblood perma-kills Fused but I suspect that even if he doesn't, he'd damage their souls enough that they'd be completely useless to Odium's plans. If not immediately, then after a couple reincarnations. And if Shardblades hitting a gemheart just so can damage the Fused soul directly, maybe they could as well, it might just take a few more goes before the soul is so damaged that the Fused stops being a threat.

 

3 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I am so curious to know what happens if you use the blade during an Everstorm... Could it eat the whole thing considering Nightblood consumes exponentially? Maybe Szeth couldn't use Voidlight it, but what about Venli?

Brandon has said that Nightblood would try to feed on the mists in Scadrial if given the chance but the mists would also try to pull away, as a similar case. Given that the Everstorm has a clearly supernatural component (it's able to pose dramatically at Thaylen City, arrive at unexpected times and the lightning seems to target specific structures) it would probably try to avoid Nightblood the instant that whatever force is directing it notices that something is trying to absorb its Investiture.

Trying to absorb Investiture through a holder would probably not work, or at least not for very long. Brandon has mentioned that an Elantrian trying to feed Nightblood with an Aon would die as Nightblood would basically eat the Aon and the power flowing from the Dor. So someone trying to draw on a replenishing source of stormlight or voidlight while weilding Nightblood would probably last a fair bit longer than normal but they'd still die.

[Varenus]

Send them all to Sel's cognitive realm and let the Dor deal with them.

Edit: First ever literal interpretation of slamming the door Dor on someone's hopes and dreams. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Varenus

[dvoraen]

10 hours ago, Leuthie said:

You'd need a lot of gemstones.

If there were a simple way to contain the Fused, Honor wouldn't have created the Oathpact, sending 10 heroes to be tortured for hundreds of years at a time to hold them back.

So far, Nightblood is the only big addition to the world since then capable of removing Fused from the board.

This is probably why gemstones haven't been used: the Fused aren't readily available for capture, for one; secondly, if we assume it's possible, I think they're able to break free from a gemstone more easily than a mindless spren.  Re-Shephir somehow escaped her imprisonment inside a (presumably perfect) gemstone, and she's a slight step above 'mindless.'  The Fused are probably hard to capture in a gemstone in the first place, as well.

[Angsos]

Patrick star I gave an upvote even though I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I assume it's Dungeons and Dragons or something?

[CalaCrisp88]

5 hours ago, Angsos said:

Patrick star I gave an upvote even though I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I assume it's Dungeons and Dragons or something?

I believe it's yugioh, lol

[Patrick Star]

On 5/4/2018 at 3:55 PM, Angsos said:

Patrick star I gave an upvote even though I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I assume it's Dungeons and Dragons or something?

Yugioh.  Arguably both the best and worst designed card game out there lol

So many broken cards

[Gray to]

Just build a giant wall on the western edge of Roshar to block the everstorm. No storm no problem

Edited May 6, 2018 by Gray to

[Zelly]

1) Get all the perfect gems (form the megagem?  Capt Planetgem?)

2) Get a bondsmith

3) ??????

4) Profit

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

17 hours ago, Gray to said:

Just build a giant wall on the western edge of Roshar to block the everstorm. No storm no problem

Only problem with this Solution is that KRS will all have to start wearing red baseball caps that say "Make Roshar great again!"

And they'll need to figure out how to trick the Singers into building it too.

[vikorr]

Probably the 5th ideal.

Knights Radiant commonly swore only 4, but there is a fifth, though we don't know exactly what swearing a 5th achieves. My guess is that it could enable the destruction of the world, but it may also be the salvation of the world...so long as the wielder quickly achieves what he has to achieve, then dies. Likley it would take a windrunner to achieve that - to protect, but that protection requiring your life (sort of reminds me of Shainarians in WoT)

[Gasper]

I know that putting the Parshmen back into slave form would be bad, but could there be a way to place a lock on their gem hearts. Say, encase them in aluminum. that way a fused cant bind to them.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

We have seen one weapon capable of killing a cognitive shadow and also doing something else that is rather mysterious,  namely drawing something forth from the incarnate physical form of the cognitive shadow and trapping it in a gem. The Herald killing knife wielded by Moash.

Would be an ironic turn of events if Odium's god metal was the only material able to kill his deathless warriors. This may be the real reason why the Fused were so insistent on delegating the task of taking out Jezrien with this weapon, because to them too it could be the final death.

The Sovereign should probably tread lightly on Roshar as well, he may not be able to survive the prick of the Odious knife either.

Edited May 6, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Weltall]

5 hours ago, vikorr said:

Probably the 5th ideal.

Knights Radiant commonly swore only 4, but there is a fifth, though we don't know exactly what swearing a 5th achieves. My guess is that it could enable the destruction of the world, but it may also be the salvation of the world...so long as the wielder quickly achieves what he has to achieve, then dies. Likley it would take a windrunner to achieve that - to protect, but that protection requiring your life (sort of reminds me of Shainarians in WoT)

Uhh, not sure where you're getting this. We know that there are stages of progression and we know that the Skybreakers specifically consider the Third Ideal enough for full initiation, with the Fourth being accomplished by some and the Fifth being extraordinarily rare. However, there's no indication that among other Orders, swearing the last Ideal is such a rare thing and certainly not that it grants any special powers.

[Xtafa]

5 hours ago, Gasper said:

I know that putting the Parshmen back into slave form would be bad, but could there be a way to place a lock on their gem hearts. Say, encase them in aluminum. that way a fused cant bind to them.

They'd have to go full wolverine on them, as the heart is fused and encased in bone in the chest. 

[vikorr]

4 hours ago, Weltall said:

Uhh, not sure where you're getting this. We know that there are stages of progression and we know that the Skybreakers specifically consider the Third Ideal enough for full initiation, with the Fourth being accomplished by some and the Fifth being extraordinarily rare. However, there's no indication that among other Orders, swearing the last Ideal is such a rare thing and certainly not that it grants any special powers.

The only source we have of the 5th ideal originates in Nale/Nin - with talk of the higher power of the 5th ideal. So that certainly suggests special powers. 

He does not mention the 5th ideal only in relation to skybreakers - he attaches no order name to the discussion (that I remember). Other than his mentioning the 5th ideal, I'm pretty sure all other mentions of the KR throughout the books speak of only 4 ideals. That makes the 5th rare.

Besides, I thought it obvious my post was speculation - as likely is every answer to the OP endgame question - as we're still in the early stages of the books.

Edited May 7, 2018 by vikorr