Who do you ship and why?

[Kon-Tiki]

19 minutes ago, Dalakaar said:

I didn't really stop to think about it until I read that, but I agree on all points. Whether or not a character is well written/enjoyable/liked is completely beside the point of a character being well developed.

Adolin doesn't develop, he's the same. We don't see growth. And from some WoBs I've read he was intended to be a sideline character that got a leading roll somewhat unexpectedly. He also seems to be (and IMO was made to be) the most well adjusted main character. Sort of a foil for the foibles of the others. (Probably a reason he's so well liked?)

Unfortunately, it doesn't leave a lot of room for development. Sadeas was a launching point but instead of taking off he just sort of... jumped up a bit then fell back down to where he already was.

I don't know that I agree.

Adolin used to be something of a playboy. Now, he's turned off even by the idea of Shallan illusioning herself as other women

Adolin used to prefer a lot of shallow relationships, but is developing closer friendships with Kaladin, Skar, and Drehy.

Adolin used to be a socialite and something of a dandy. Now, extreme fashion "doesn't fit" anymore and he's mostly rejected the others of his class.

Adolin learned to accept and understand what his father meant by living the Codes, and backed him up when Sadeas betrayed them at the Tower

Adolin once would have allowed himself to be bullied into the kingship. But with encouragement from Vivenna and Shallan, he's now looking for his own place in the world instead of the one Dalinar is projecting onto him.

I think the only time in all of OB Adolin even thinks about dueling is to note that Shardblades aren't particularly good dueling weapons, but that instead they seem pretty specifically designed to kill thunderclasts. Dueling used to be something of an obsession of his.

Most of all, I think Adolin used to be highly typical of Alethi society at the beginning of WoR. He certainly is not that anymore. Adolin is going to have to learn to find a place for himself moving forward.

[Dalakaar]

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I don't know that I agree.

Not sure I do too, thinking as I go.

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Adolin used to be something of a playboy. Now, he's turned off even by the idea of Shallan illusioning herself as other women

Maybe when SA remembers it's not YA Adolin might ask Shallan, "can you do that thing again" in the bedroom. (Giggityspren here we go!)

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Adolin used to prefer a lot of shallow relationships, but is developing closer friendships with Kaladin, Skar, and Drehy.

Adolin used to be a socialite and something of a dandy. Now, extreme fashion "doesn't fit" anymore and he's mostly rejected the others of his class.

Most of all, I think Adolin used to be highly typical of Alethi society at the beginning of WoR. He certainly is not that anymore. Adolin is going to have to learn to find a place for himself moving forward.

I think all these are connected. He was a dandy because he hung out with dandies as he's good at hanging out and making friends. Now most of those dandies are dead or on the wrong side of the Oathgates, so he's making friends with those currently around him. I don't see that as growth, just an example of his being himself in different times/circumstances. It's not really development per se. Good writing and understanding of how a character would behave in that environment though. But again, not a sign of growth.

Now, that being said, his making friends with people that aren't dandified backstabbing fops like Jakamav may impact his growth and development. (Hopefully it does!)

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Adolin once would have allowed himself to be bullied into the kingship. But with encouragement from Vivenna and Shallan, he's now looking for his own place in the world instead of the one Dalinar is projecting onto him.

That is true. There's some growth in there.

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I think the only time in all of OB Adolin even thinks about dueling is to note that Shardblades aren't particularly good dueling weapons, but that instead they seem pretty specifically designed to kill thunderclasts. Dueling used to be something of an obsession of his.

Not sure that's true. He's pretty nostalgic when training Shallan a few times. Dueling was the centre of his character for WoR so I see it more as a moving on from that particular plot-line than Adolin moving on from dueling. Technical reason as opposed to characterization. (Meaning he'd be dueling if the circumstances were different, less "end-of-the-worldy")

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Most of all, I think Adolin used to be highly typical of Alethi society at the beginning of WoR. He certainly is not that anymore. Adolin is going to have to learn to find a place for himself moving forward.

1 hour ago, Kon-Tiki said:

Adolin learned to accept and understand what his father meant by living the Codes, and backed him up when Sadeas betrayed them at the Tower

He does make a good exemplar of Alethi high-society and the underlying changes it's getting. His acceptance of the Codes is definitely indicative of that. Although I'm not sure how much of Alethi high culture has/will survive lol.

[Kon-Tiki]

4 minutes ago, Dalakaar said:

Not sure that's true. He's pretty nostalgic when training Shallan a few times. Dueling was the centre of his character for WoR so I see it more as a moving on from that particular plot-line than Adolin moving on from dueling. Technical reason as opposed to characterization. (Meaning he'd be dueling if the circumstances were different, less "end-of-the-worldy")

When he's training Shallan, he wonders what kind of fighting style to teach her. He considers dueling, but not any more than any other style of fighting. His love of fighting with his Shardblade is not the same to me as his love of dueling specifically.

 

Quote

"Why not fight a duel?" Adolin asked, leaning in, sounding eager. "Some stuffy pronouncement may explain your ideas, but it won't make people feel them either. Pick someone who is naming you coward, challenge them, and remind everyone what a mistake it is to insult the Blackthorn!"

[Dalinar says no]

"Then charge me with the honor of our house. I'll duel them! I'll face them with Plate and Blade and show them what your honor means."

I don't think the Adolin in Kholinar with the strike team would have said something like this. I don't think he's really this person anymore. He doesn't see honor in this way anymore. And frankly, I think that after the duel with Jakamov et al that he hasn't really been as keen on the institution of dueling on the whole. All of these are signs of development to me

[Guest]

What Adolin does well is adapting to the new situation he's in. However, this does not imply growth. As always aware of how he is seen, he just adapting his outward appearance.

He's now in a monogamous relationship -> Of course, he tries to eliminate his playboy image by telling Shallan he only wants her. Maybe there even is some truth to it, but we can't know when he is only telling it. Besides, I'm pretty sure, that he did never enjoy his playboy image. On the flip side, he very much hated the image of being the man that couldn't keep a woman.

Regarding the shallow friendship thing, we can't exactly say how close he was to Jakamav and company. Maybe he actually saw them as good friends. We only saw the tail end of their friendship.

Regarding the Codes, the world is ending. He can't afford to argue with his father anymore. Actually him murdering Sadeas is in direct violation of 

Quote

Restraint

The officer will refrain from needless duels, arguments or squabbles with other officers in camp, to prevent injury to men who may be needed to command.

Yes, Sadeas was a cremhole and he might have needed to die and yet he could have commanded. In my eyes, it is absurd to say, that Adolin has accepted the Codes, when he clearly doesn't adhere to them. He did accept Dalinar's choice though and him outwardly supporting his father is nothing new either.

Regarding him being a pushover in the past, I completely disagree that he ever was. He often was at edge with his father, the man he respects most. It is just that this time around Dalinar just couldn't argue against Adolin's valid point of the murder.

Dueling already was assessed by Dalakaar. One thing I would add though, that he is adapting to being a soldier in a war. Soldiers don't duel. The quote above is in a completely different situation from the one in Kholinar. Pretty much impossible to compare.

Bottom line is, that he - as always - is just adapting himself to a new situation, but that is something he has always done. His character itself isn't changed very much though.

Addendum:

11 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said:

I don't think he's really this person anymore. He doesn't see honor in this way anymore. And frankly, I think that after the duel with Jakamov et al that he hasn't really been as keen on the institution of dueling on the whole. All of these are signs of development to me

Really? And how are determining that? We really have no idea on his feelings about dueling now. He just can't afford to do it anymore. With the Everstorm around. And honestly, a cold-blooded murderer should be careful about talking about so-called honor. If anything, he sees dueling as negative, because it didn't let him humiliate Sadeas. He then decided to take matters in to his own hands. He even outright says, that he did it because Sadeas kept winding himself out of these situations.

Edited January 2, 2019 by SLNC

[NoiseSpren]

Some people demand too much from character growth. Look at Kelsier. He didn't changed much in the story, too. Only some minor things. Like Adolin. Like Sarene. Like Vasher. Like Wayne. Like Wax. Like Sazed...

You people want characters to be HIGHLY UNSTABLE.

Why?

There is some fun in it but in accurate rations.

I don't like that one because he isn't developing.

Zahel doesn't grow and we love him!

[Winds Alight]

IMO Adolin does indeed grow - in a natural, healthy way, without his character changing completely.
He learns from his experiences and acts accordingly.

Not every single character needs dramatic (or traumatic) change to function. Adolin is an element of stability that serves the books well (we have enough dramaqueens - no, I'm not talking about mental health issues here, oh my Honor. This is a humorous exaggeration. I really thought that was obvious), without being static or appearing badly written.

Sanderson talked about him in an interview a while back where he said that Adolin is so easy to write because he's straightforward and doesn't hold things back. That makes less room for Big Drama™, sure, but of that, we have enough.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Joy]

All this talk of Adolin is reminding me of why I think he's good for Shallan, even though they're not my preferred ship. He's perhaps the most stable protagonist in the entire cast, and Shallan needs the emotional grounding he provides. Their relationship is completely sensible, if not particularly thrilling.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Winds Alight said:

we have enough dramaqueens tbh

Great. People suffering from trauma and depression are dramaqueens now. If people really think this, then I guess it's no surprise everyone loves Adolin so much.

37 minutes ago, Joy said:

He's perhaps the most stable protagonist in the entire cast, and Shallan needs the emotional grounding he provides. Their relationship is completely sensible, if not particularly thrilling.

I disagree. What she needs is someone to call her crem dung and not be a yes man, that is too afraid to talk back at her.

2 hours ago, NoiseSpren said:

You people want characters to be HIGHLY UNSTABLE.

Holy hyperbole. I want interesting characters. If instability makes them interesting, then I'm fine with it. There are other ways to make them interesting, but Adolin is. so. damnation. bland.

Edited January 2, 2019 by SLNC

[Winds Alight]

8 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Great. People suffering from trauma and depression are dramaqueens now. If people really think this, then I guess it's no surprise everyone loves Adolin so much.

I disagree. What she needs is someone to call her crem dung and not be a yes man, that is too afraid to talk back at her.

This is not what I said and I'd be very grateful if you didn't read something like this into what I wrote, thank you.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

This is not what I said and I'd be very grateful if you didn't read something like this into what I wrote, thank you.

The implication was enough. Don't play coy.

[Winds Alight]

8 minutes ago, SLNC said:

The implication was enough. Don't play coy.

And you don't play "I know better than others how they mean things".
You know what an exaggeration is, do you?
No, I do not think people with mental health issues are dramaqueens. I never have. Believe it or not.

Some (read: most) people do like Adolin. Some don't find him "bland". Me included.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Alderant]

1 minute ago, Winds Alight said:

This is not what I said and I'd be very grateful if you didn't read something like this into what I wrote, thank you.

Maybe amend your comment to carry your meaning further. As it currently reads, you state you prefer Adolin because he is stable (and the given comparisons are to characters that have severe mental disorders), and you go on to state that "we have enough dramaqueens tbh" in quick succession. Contextually, the implication--even if unintended--is that you think the characters with mental disorders are dramaqueens and need to just "get over" their problems--and as someone with a mental disorder, I can tell you I read it the same way as @SLNC.

A few notes before I go silent once more:

2 hours ago, NoiseSpren said:

Some people demand too much from character growth. Look at Kelsier. He didn't changed much in the story, too. Only some minor things. Like Adolin. Like Sarene. Like Vasher. Like Wayne. Like Wax. Like Sazed...

You picked some of the worst examples to further your point toward the end. Wayne, Wax, and Sazed all have HUGE character growth arcs. Even smaller characters in these respective series--Steris & Breeze, for example--have more visible growth over three books than Adolin has actually shown. Further, Sarene and Vasher are from standalone books--Vasher wasn't even the main character, and these two are from the earliest of Brandon's published books. And the two main characters of that book (Warbreaker) did show enormous growth within the bounds of that singular volume.

2 hours ago, NoiseSpren said:

You people want characters to be HIGHLY UNSTABLE.

No, I want characters to be believable and relatable. What I find funny is how much projection is placed on Adolin, and how much his narrative is retroactively rewritten with each book. He isn't even stable--his murder of Sadeas in a fit of anger is clear indication of that. He also is highly jealous, and demonstrates severe avoidance behavior with regards to responsibility. I've written an entire wallpost on the subject.

53 minutes ago, Joy said:

All this talk of Adolin is reminding me of why I think he's good for Shallan, even though they're not my preferred ship. He's perhaps the most stable protagonist in the entire cast, and Shallan needs the emotional grounding he provides. Their relationship is completely sensible, if not particularly thrilling.

I respectfully disagree. Adolin doesn't provide "emotional grounding," he provides a yes-man to Shallan's antics, someone who will tell her what she wants to hear instead of what she needs to hear. He actually exacerbates her mental problems, fragments her mental state further by his "acceptance" of "who" she is. He doesn't know who she is--she isn't even sure who she is--and therefore he's not qualified to tell her so. To say he knows her on the depth required is not only a ludicrous notion, but it's pathologically misogynistic. He's not good for her in the slightest.

And to be clear, what Shallan needs isn't "emotional grounding," it's facing her problems and accepting that she is who she is--trauma, flaws, and all. And Adolin can't give her that because he doesn't know what she hasn't told him--which is a lot.

[Winds Alight]

10 minutes ago, Alderant said:

Maybe amend your comment to carry your meaning further. As it currently reads, you state you prefer Adolin because he is stable (and the given comparisons are to characters that have severe mental disorders), and you go on to state that "we have enough dramaqueens tbh" in quick succession. Contextually, the implication--even if unintended--is that you think the characters with mental disorders are dramaqueens and need to just "get over" their problems--and as someone with a mental disorder, I can tell you I read it the same way as @SLNC.

I edited the post, though I am at a complete loss as to where I implied I "preferred" Adolin. I honestly don't get it.
I said he serves the story well because he balances things out. No more. He's not my favourite character.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Schneeente]

I think Adolin is a good fit for Shallan because while she doesn't even know who she is herself he knows exactly who he is. He has a stable personality, especially in comparison with Shallan. And claiming that Adolin cannot help her facing her "internal problems" is... well.. not grounded in facts. 

Having someone at your side who answers you - after you just asked him which person he prefers you to be - "I want the real Shallan, you don't need to disguise yourself for me" (I'm paraphrasing here) ... I think no psychiatrist could offer more. Isn't that a strong incentive to be yourself? At least when you are with that person? And wouldn't that be a first, healthy step?

I think Adolin has such a stable personality despite the killing of Sadeas. I'd go so far and say that this murder underlines his pragmatic nature: It just was the best way to get rid of a major threat. That guy was a freaking mass murderer. And a traitor! He helped the enemy with whom he was at war with and killed thousands of his own countrymen. If someone deserved to die, it is him. And he did it on purpose. And was fine with it. Compare that to Szeth who killed maybe a few hundreds and didn't even do it on his own accords... well, what I wanted to say is, that killing Sadeas was necessary and Adolin sacrificed his good name and conscience for the greater good. Totally stable personality. No irony or sarcasm involved. 

And I am sure he'll help Shallan to "find herself" and accept the things she has done! 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Schneeente

[Dalakaar]

8 hours ago, NoiseSpren said:

Some people demand too much from character growth. Look at Kelsier. He didn't changed much in the story, too. Only some minor things. Like Adolin. Like Sarene. Like Vasher. Like Wayne. Like Wax. Like Sazed...

We read very different stories if you think Sazed had little development.

Very different stories.

 

Hmm, new ship I just thought of now though, that I am fully behind.

 

Sazed and Cultivation!

[Quantus]

Not typically much of a shipper, I generally prefer to just see how their relationships play out on their own, to avoid the inevitable disappointment when my hopes dont work out, if nothing else.

 

That being said:   Jasnah and Rlain. 

Jasnah seems really unimpressed by the cultural gender roles she was born into, and there's that line when she proposed the engagement to Shallan where she said "Doesnt it bother you at all? The idea of being beholden to another, particularly a man?"  This made me think she might lean the other way in the great game of Love; Id enjoy seeing her buck the cultural norm and find what Im sure for her would be an unexpected connection with another woman.  But that would likely end up with her and another heavy Scholar type (just given the pool of folks she spends her time around), and I think it could be even more interesting to see her go further and find a romantic connection with a Singer, somebody from the race with several genders and little-to-no apparent gender bias.  I think she'd enjoy being around a person that has to very consciously change Forms to Mateform before they have to deal with much sexual drive; it could lead to some fun scenes where for the first time she was the one dealing with the sort of heightened sexual distraction that Singers attribute to Mateform. We know from the Horneaters that inter-species relations work on a genetic level.  Plus, I want Rlain to have as much development and screen time as possible, though Venli (as our other Named Singer character) could serve much the same narrative purpose in most respects.

EDIT:  Not to mention, that would mean that

Spoiler

Alethkar would have a Singer King/Consort, which would be all kinds of fun, if only for the offended Harrumph's we'd get from all the old-fashion aristocrats (the surviving ones, anyway)

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Quantus

[Alderant]

1 hour ago, Dalakaar said:

Hmm, new ship I just thought of now though, that I am fully behind.

 

Sazed and Cultivation!

Please just edit your previous post instead of double-posting. Thanks

2 hours ago, Schneeente said:

I think Adolin is a good fit for Shallan because while she doesn't even know who she is herself he knows exactly who he is. He has a stable personality, especially in comparison with Shallan. And claiming that Adolin cannot help her facing her "internal problems" is... well.. not grounded in facts. 

Having someone at your side who answers you - after you just asked him which person he prefers you to be - "I want the real Shallan, you don't need to disguise yourself for me" (I'm paraphrasing here) ... I think no psychiatrist could offer more. Isn't that a strong incentive to be yourself? At least when you are with that person? And wouldn't that be a first, healthy step?

I think Adolin has such a stable personality despite the killing of Sadeas. I'd go so far and say that this murder underlines his pragmatic nature: It just was the best way to get rid of a major threat. That guy was a freaking mass murderer. And a traitor! He helped the enemy with whom he was at war with and killed thousands of his own countrymen. If someone deserved to die, it is him. And he did it on purpose. And was fine with it. Compare that to Szeth who killed maybe a few hundreds and didn't even do it on his own accords... well, what I wanted to say is, that killing Sadeas was necessary and Adolin sacrificed his good name and conscience for the greater good. Totally stable personality. No irony or sarcasm involved. 

And I am sure he'll help Shallan to "find herself" and accept the things she has done! 

I don't think we have the same understanding, and I'm not sure how to react to this because there is so much in this post that is just...so, so wrong.

I would like to inform you that my statements are very well grounded in facts. In fact (ha, pun), I use the books as a primary source for everything I say, and usually back up my comments with ample sourced evidence. I didn't this time for the sake of brevity since I've said these same points over and over...

Cliff notes:

Spoiler

Quote

He has a stable personality, especially in comparison with Shallan.

Sociopathic Balat has a more stable personality than Shallan. Comparing stability with Shallan is like comparing skin tone with me. Everyone is more stable than Shallan. That's not exactly a great bar of stability to set.

Quote

Having someone at your side who answers you - after you just asked him which person he prefers you to be - "I want the real Shallan, you don't need to disguise yourself for me" (I'm paraphrasing here) ... I think no psychiatrist could offer more.

You've clearly never been through therapy. Therapy is not about someone else accepting you for who they think you are, it's about accepting things about yourself that you have shut or hidden away, and that accepting those things may make you a different person to those around you. Adolin in this scene says,

Quote

"It's obvious. I prefer the real you."

...

"She's the one I'm talking to right now. You don't have to hide, Shallan. You don't have to push it down."

And yes, this would be the perfect opportunity to tell Adolin about herself--how she killed her father, and her mother, how hiding from all of these facts has fragmented her into such a state. You know what her reply is?

Quote

"What is that bridgeboy doing up there?"

Shallan is never honest with Adolin. And Adolin is too dense to know that Shallan is hiding her very self from him. He has only seen the tiniest glimpse into who she really is--he believes that the woman he's been conversing with--the Shallan mask--is the real Shallan, because she never lets him see her true self. And to be clear:

Quote

Isn't that a strong incentive to be yourself? At least when you are with that person? And wouldn't that be a first, healthy step?

Yes, you're correct. That would be a healthy first step. The fact that she still struggles to be herself and ends up picking what Adolin "prefers" as herself should be a strong indication that things aren't healthy.

Quote

I think Adolin has such a stable personality despite the killing of Sadeas. I'd go so far and say that this murder underlines his pragmatic nature: It just was the best way to get rid of a major threat.

You overlook the fact that Adolin only considered killing Sadeas as a pragmatic result after committing the murderer in a fit of anger. In the moment, it was all emotion and snapping, not the calculated removal of a threat like we'd see from Jasnah:

Quote

Adolin stood for a moment, staring Sadeas in the eyes, and then something finally snapped.

That's it.

...

"My father," Adolin said with a grunt, sweat from his nose dripping down onto the blade of the knife, "thinks I'm a better man than he is." He strained, and felt Sadeas's grip weaken. "Unfortunately for you, he's wrong."

Sadeas whimpered.

With a surge, Adolin forced the blade up past Sadeas's nose and into the eye socket--piercing the eye like a ripe berry.

...

Had he just done that? Had he just murdered a highprince?

(WoR, chapter 89, emphasis added)

Adolin doesn't initially think of it as "assassination" or "removing a threat". Adolin calls it murder. That's telling.

Quote

That guy was a freaking mass murderer. And a traitor! He helped the enemy with whom he was at war with and killed thousands of his own countrymen.

Oddly enough, you condemn in Sadeas the very thing you're extolling in Adolin. Sadeas saw Dalinar and Dalinar's way of thinking as a threat to Alethkar--granted, there was a lot of selfishness involved in this, and Sadeas was a ripe crembucket, but the point is, Sadeas's betrayal of Dalinar was a calculated maneuver to get rid of a potentially detrimental cause.
Further, I'd like to also point out that Alethi society is not like our own--they think far, far less of mass murder than we do, and betrayal is considered fairplay so long as you could pretend it wasn't betrayal (which is what Sadeas attempted to do).

Quote

If someone deserved to die, it is him. And he did it on purpose. And was fine with it. Compare that to Szeth who killed maybe a few hundreds and didn't even do it on his own accords... well, what I wanted to say is, that killing Sadeas was necessary

I agree to here

Quote

Adolin sacrificed his good name and conscience for the greater good.

And this is completely unfounded within the text. Adolin sacrificed nothing. It wasn't some magnanimous, "taking the fall" for his family, Sadeas taunted him to far, Adolin snapped, murder happened. End of story. What Adolin then did in OB was use this fact to excuse himself from becoming King, thus avoiding a responsibility he didn't want.

I'm not saying Adolin is a bad guy, and I'm not saying he isn't a fun addition to the roster, but he is not good for Shallan and her mental state at the end of the book--despite Adolin's "assurances" and misogynistic determination of her identity, is a better indication of how bad he actually is for her, rather than how well they work.

 

On 5/1/2018 at 8:40 PM, Darkwalker said:

ok but really does anyone else ship Kaladin and Jasnah? or is it just me, I NEED to know.

No, you're not alone. I actually ship them quite a bit.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Alderant
Edited into spoiler tag for brevity; Edited again to give Darkwalker from page 1 comfort.

[Winds Alight]

Wow I don't think I ever disagreed more wholeheartedly with something than with your take on whether or not Adolin and Shallan are a good match.

I understand every single one of your examples completely differently.

 

[Vissy]

It would be interesting to read a more detailed rebuttal, if that's what you intended to do. Either way, of course everyone takes different interpretations from the same text and ultimately literary analysis is only a tool of persuasion, so disagreeing is fine. However, it does come across as a bit rude if your only intention is to point out how much you disagree with someone rather than adding something to the discussion that could maybe shed light on how you see the examples differently. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Vissy

[Winds Alight]

I might add more later when I'm at a computer though I'll most likely repeat what I already wrote in other threads. Me writing long posts on the phone is not going to happen. Like, ever. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by Winds Alight

[Toaster Retribution]

How come shipping threads always derail into Adolin... oh, well, I’ll get us back on track by suggesting something I havent seen suggested (and I dont ship stuff, I just suggest things for fun):

Syl and Pattern

[Joy]

21 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

How come shipping threads always derail into Adolin... oh, well, I’ll get us back on track by suggesting something I havent seen suggested (and I dont ship stuff, I just suggest things for fun):

Syl and Pattern

If you want to ship spren, this pairing seems like an obvious place to start, but I don't think I really see it? I think their personalities are too different, and not in a way that I find compelling--although you could have some fun Romeo-and-Juliet shenanigans with the conflict between honorspren and Cryptics. I like, as someone suggested earlier, Wyndle/Pattern; I also think Wyndle and Syl could have a fun dynamic.

[Use the Falchion]

Kaladin x Jasnah (Tarah in Second for Kaladin, Azure in Second for Jasnah) - they could, if they give each other the chance, help each other grow and mature.

Renarin x Lift POST-TIMESKIP (Rysn in Second for Renarin, Gawx in Second for Lift) - the cuteness factor would be too high. Like, Renarin giving Lift food as an incentive for learning to read (which he also would teach her), and Lift just not having an idea of what to do with that warm feeling inside of her chest. Also, Bridge 4 (read: Rock) would LOVE Lift. 

                                                  Rysn also works well for pairing with Renarin's nature I think. 

Taln x Ash - classic tragic romance. They want to be together, but the world always tears them apart.

Szeth x ...honestly, I don't think he needs to be anywhere NEAR a relationship, but if I HAD to, maybe Lyn? Teft? Venli…? Bleh...nope. nope. I mean, maybe Azure, but still...nope. I feel like a Windrunner would be good for Szeth's sanity, but as a Skybreaker they'd fight too much. He needs someone/something emotionally and mentally stable in his life right now, and honestly Dalinar and Navani are the best he'll probably get for a LONG time. 

Glys x Syl - I could just see hyper-manic Glys driving even the super bubbly Syl a little crazy. 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Use the Falchion
Forgot to add why

[Razrback16]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Kaladin x Jasnah (Tarah in Second for Kaladin, Azure in Second for Jasnah) - they could, if they give each other the chance, help each other grow and mature.

 

 

Agreed 100%. What I'm hoping for there is Jasnah and Kaladin start to have a little chemistry from interacting during "co-parenting" (however that ends up working out) with Gavinor, and then Tarah shows up to create some emotional / relationship conflict with Jasnah + Kaladin ultimately winning out.

[Joy]

I had no idea that so many people shipped Kaladin and Jasnah. Personally, I interpret her disinterest in men as a sign that she's either gay or asexual. (I have my fingers crossed for the former, but either would be cool.) That's part of why I ship her with Shallan--and why I'm still holding out hope that Jasnah will eventually find a female lover in canon. I can't think of anyone from the current cast that I'd want her to end up with (besides the sadly unavailable Shallan), though post-timeskip Lift would make for a hilarious dynamic.