Jofwu

[OB] Renarin's influence on the Diagram

58 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, tmnsquirtle said:

At first, I disagreed with this, but after some consideration, I'm on board. Especially since (Mistborn spoilers): 

  Hide contents

Fortune, which I think we can all agree is the central mechanism behind future sight, is directly manipulatable by feruchemists on scadrial. I bet this will actually be a common topic in the future of the cosmere.

 

Agreed, though the downside is that it would presumably require the correct Corrupted/Voidspren to be imprisoned in the gems for it to work, and they may well be a limited supply.  Unless Sja-anat does defect, of course, but she seems to care for them and may object to them being imprisoned in Fabrials.    

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13 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

2. Futuresight is a (corrupted?) surge. 

Maybe?

Renarin's futuresight is weird...

Quote

Argent [PENDING REVIEW]

Let's talk about Renarin, and Voidbinding. So, with that page we talked about, Renarin Voidbinds. I asked about visions, you pointed to Voidbinding chart, he Voidbinds. Is that using Stormlight to power abilities different from the Surgebindings we've seen?  

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. 

Argent [PENDING REVIEW]

Is that what voidbinding is? 

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, but close. You're on the right track. We are gonna get into that, I'm not gonna tell you what the chart means, and things like that. But yeah, something really weird is happening there. 

It seems highly likely that is voidbinding, or at least related to voidbinding. We don't really have any evidence that "voidfabrials" are a thing?

My suspicion is that it's possible... Devices for most magic in the cosmere seems possible. But I'm betting a fabrial to see the future is going to be very difficult to make and very expensive to use? I guess it depends on how "powerful" the fabrial is. To connect things to Mistborn...

Spoiler

A fabrial that does something like Allomantic gold is one thing, while atium is another. And "see the future" is generally used to refer to something more powerful than atium.

Looking far into the future, through more complex events, (like we see with Renarin in WoR I think) is probably not cheap or easy in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

Looking far into the future, through more complex events, (like we see with Renarin in WoR I think) is probably not cheap or easy in my opinion.

That depends, are you trying to actually see into the future, or merely stymie others who are attempting to see? The former may be hard, but the latter should be relatively easy. 

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6 hours ago, Jofwu said:

It seems highly likely that is voidbinding, or at least related to voidbinding. We don't really have any evidence that "voidfabrials" are a thing?

There's this recent WoB from the Skyward AMA that goes a long way to confirming this, usually:

Quote

dvoraen

"To see the future originates with the Unmade..." "Voidbinding is a dark and evil thing, and the soul of it was to try to divine the future." Is it therefore safe to say that Voidbinding, by extension, also originates with the Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Not always. But usually.

source

 

6 hours ago, Jofwu said:

My suspicion is that it's possible... Devices for most magic in the cosmere seems possible. But I'm betting a fabrial to see the future is going to be very difficult to make and very expensive to use? I guess it depends on how "powerful" the fabrial is. To connect things to Mistborn...

Our favorite crypto Elantrian, Riino, has a fortune viewing device in his lighthouse in Shadesmar, looks kind of like a crystal ball, but it definitely allows Kaladin to glimpse the future, not sure what the underlying mechanic is (seemed like access to the Spiritual Realm), but it was triggered by the passing Shadesmar manifestation of the Highstorm.

6 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

That depends, are you trying to actually see into the future, or merely stymie others who are attempting to see? The former may be hard, but the latter should be relatively easy. 

I like this idea, like you could have a worn fabrial that has essentially the same effect as creating Electrum shadows. Basically a limited proximate effect that masks the future of a single agent. Pretty freaking awesome idea!

 

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
typos typos typos
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I had a thought. Odium took pride in the fact that there was no equivalent of the Bondsmith in voidbinding. I think it’s not that there is no equivalent spren, for a Bondsmith Of voidbinding but that Odium deliberately made it as hard as possible to bond with. (As for why he would make one it might be that as part of coopting the magic system he kind of had to, so trying to make it impossible to bond was his workaround for having to make it)

This is just a guess but based on the fact that the voidbinding chart is an inverted version of the Knights Radiant chart. Could it be that the “equivalent of a Bondsmith for voidbinding” would have the heraldic characteristics of a Bondsmith (Pious, Guiding) but take the vows and surges if a Truthwatcher? And that’s why they are so hard to find? Remember what Lift said about Pious people? “They are hiding something” 

My guess is that Glys, the corrupted Truthwatcher spen would make somewon the equivalent of a Voidbinder Bondsmith, but Odium thought that it would be impossible for anyone to successfully bond with Glys. Or at least to bond to this degree. Hence the pride in there not being a “bondsmith” equivalent in voidbinding. The fact that Renarin WAS able to bond Glys would end up throwing a series wrench in Odiums plans.

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@animalia In the Ars Arcanum at the end of any SA book, Kriss talks about how there are ten orders of voidbinding, just like there are ten orders of surgebinding. What you’re thinking of is how there are only nine types of fused. Even then, we don’t know which surge isn’t represented in the Fused.

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12 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

@animalia In the Ars Arcanum at the end of any SA book, Kriss talks about how there are ten orders of voidbinding, just like there are ten orders of surgebinding. What you’re thinking of is how there are only nine types of fused. Even then, we don’t know which surge isn’t represented in the Fused.

Ok. I found the thing I was looking for. It seems we were BOTH wrong. The thing that the Bondsmith analog was missing from is the UNMADE. Link here https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8598

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11 hours ago, animalia said:

Ok. I found the thing I was looking for. It seems we were BOTH wrong. The thing that the Bondsmith analog was missing from is the UNMADE. Link here https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8598

I mean, that’s true. But my statement is also true. There are only 9 types of Fused (unless there are actually 10, and Moash just didn’t see the last type).

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