KR plus spren equals Shardblade, does it mean KR plus 2 spren equals Shardblade and Shardplate?

[MitchSpren2014]

To be a Knight Radiant and gain a Shardblade, you need to bond a spren. To gain a Shardplate, does that mean you need to bond another spren again, or your single spren will just expand to include a Shardplate?

 

Seems to me that a Shardblade and a Shardplate is independent from each other. Say for example the modern Shardbearers who are using the Blades and Plates discarded by the Lost Radiants: It's not necessary that you're a Full Shardbearer. Some has only the Blade others only the Plate.

 

I've read in the thread, Words of Brandon (compiled) that multiple spren bonding is possible. If a Knights Radiant bond different sprens, for example an honorspren and a cryptic, does that mean he's both a Windrunner and a Lightweaver or he'll just have to choose one order?

 

If it's the latter option, I think a lot of politics will come at play. The orders will convince the Surgebinder to join their order...

 

Any thoughts on this?

[Darmad]

Renarin didn't have problems wearing the plate the way he did with the sword, did he?  Every time he held the sword he heard the screaming of the dead spren, but there is no indication he had the same problem with the plate. No screaming, no spren is my guess.

 

The fact that the plate feeds on stormlight while the swords do not is another difference.

 

I kind of lean toward plate being lesser spren.  The windspren gathered around Syl when Kaladin finally figured out lashing.  Maybe they become plate when he figures out one of the later oaths.

[akintu]

I kind of lean toward plate being lesser spren. The windspren gathered around Syl when Kaladin finally figured out lashing. Maybe they become plate when he figures out one of the later oaths.

I'm with you on this. I can almost picture it, thousands of windspren gathering around and on Kaladin until they form a solid layer of plate. Shallan may use creativityspren, we've seen them gather around her. Each KR may have their bound spren and then gain the ability to call on the lesser spren they have a connection to.

[gofunkiertti]

I personally think that plate is made from the Voidbringer corpses somehow. We know that Parshendi could create their own set of body armor and with voidbringers around you gonna see a whole range of new forms. 

 

The reason they don't scream is because they are not made from Spren at all. 

[darkanimereal1]

Renarin didn't have problems wearing the plate the way he did with the sword, did he?  Every time he held the sword he heard the screaming of the dead spren, but there is no indication he had the same problem with the plate. No screaming, no spren is my guess.

 

The fact that the plate feeds on stormlight while the swords do not is another difference.

 

I kind of lean toward plate being lesser spren.  The windspren gathered around Syl when Kaladin finally figured out lashing.  Maybe they become plate when he figures out one of the later oaths.

 

Uh, I don't really like this idea.

 

First off, you just said: "No screaming, no spren." 

 

What I'm guessing you mean is that if there isn't any screaming, then it's because they're "lesser spren" who can't think. What you're implying by this, however, is that if a spren can't think, it's okay to trap it in an object.

 

Perhaps that's okay. I mean, we know that fabrials are made with such spren. But my gut reaction is that there is something very wrong with this logic. They're still spren, and I believe that we've seen that they're capable of thinking (Pattern, for instance, didn't used to be able to think during the time of the KR, but that has since changed). At first I was going to compare it to saying that it's fine to kill animals, but I think it's more than that. It's like saying it's fine to kill a six month old because they can't yet talk.

 

I'm not sure what I think shardplate is yet. But I really don't think it's another spren of any kind.

[darkanimereal1]

And, actually, just a few threads down is a very similar discussion (I only just noticed...):

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6819-the-origin-of-shardplate/

[Observer]

I'm pretty sure plate and blade are totally different things with very little in common. Plate runs off of gemstones, and unlike a blade is capable of breaking.

 

It's either something Cultivation made with time, or it's actually man's own invention.

[lookingglass]

What if you can use the plate after saying the 3rd or 4th ideal?

[MitchSpren2014]

 

Uh, I don't really like this idea.

 

First off, you just said: "No screaming, no spren." 

 

What I'm guessing you mean is that if there isn't any screaming, then it's because they're "lesser spren" who can't think. What you're implying by this, however, is that if a spren can't think, it's okay to trap it in an object.

 

Perhaps that's okay. I mean, we know that fabrials are made with such spren. But my gut reaction is that there is something very wrong with this logic. They're still spren, and I believe that we've seen that they're capable of thinking (Pattern, for instance, didn't used to be able to think during the time of the KR, but that has since changed). At first I was going to compare it to saying that it's fine to kill animals, but I think it's more than that. It's like saying it's fine to kill a six month old because they can't yet talk.

 

I'm not sure what I think shardplate is yet. But I really don't think it's another spren of any kind.

 

Maybe they also gain sentience but only to a limit? But that seems unfair. If I am a spren, what's preventing me in looking for a person to bond properly to gain sentience?

[Era]

I think its fairly obvious that shard plate is infact a fabrial.

 

It Requires gemstones to work
People who have bonded spren don't hear screaming when they touch it

Shardblades are bonded spren, it makes no sense to be able to bond 2 spren

Edit: Also you dont have to bond it for a week like an old shardblade

 

In my opinion it is like the half shards that where made but with more understanding of fabrial technology. At the back of both books in the arcanam there is something about trapping spren for certain fabrials, i think the creation of shardplate would have something to do with this and the half shards

Edited March 15, 2014 by Era

[MitchSpren2014]

I think its fairly obvious that shard plate is infact a fabrial.

 

It Requires gemstones to work

People who have bonded spren don't hear screaming when they touch it

Shardblades are bonded spren, it makes no sense to be able to bond 2 spren

Edit: Also you dont have to bond it for a week like an old shardblade

 

In my opinion it is like the half shards that where made but with more understanding of fabrial technology. At the back of both books in the arcanam there is something about trapping spren for certain fabrials, i think the creation of shardplate would have something to do with this and the half shards

 

but trapping a spren to become a Plate, I don't think is something a Knights Radiant will do. Imagine the reaction of their bonded spren if they start trapping sprens. I'd rather think that their bonded spren expands to include Plates after the Knight Radiant progresses on their Ideals, it's just that their sentience is retained in the Blade, not in the Plate. Like the Blade is the head and the Plate is the body...

[Era]

Perhaps it doesn't involve trapping spren, but it is definetly a fabrial its the only explanation. They could obviously do amazing things, look at the oathgate for example.

[Jivvy]

I am of the opinion that Shardplate is not a fabrial. I believe that the gemstones are a substitution for a surgebinder's stormlight, somewhat like a shardblade's gemstone. My evidence is how the shardplate helm fed off of Kaladin's stormlight.

[ricree]

I wonder if it cuts the other way, and surgebinders can draw from fully active plate as easily as they can feed it. If not, then they'd still need the gemstones to power themselves when they wanted to feed the plate.

I don't remember the radiant scenes in WoK. Did the radiants there ever show signs of carrying around a bunch of gems?

[Era]

I am of the opinion that Shardplate is not a fabrial. I believe that the gemstones are a substitution for a surgebinder's stormlight, somewhat like a shardblade's gemstone. My evidence is how the shardplate helm fed off of Kaladin's stormlight.

No just think about it, the helm got hit like 20 times, the gemstone would have ran out of stormlight after 2 blows normally and then smash, but the gemstone in the helm was feeding on kaladins stormlight making it be able to last much longer than it would have for anyone other than a KR.

Its 100% a fabrial designed and created for the KR, think about how hard they would be to kill wearing plate as long as they had a good supply of stormlight.

 

Also note syl has never had a problem with plate but she has expressed her dislike for shardblades multiple times.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Era

[darkanimereal1]

No just think about it, the helm got hit like 20 times, the gemstone would have ran out of stormlight after 2 blows normally and then smash, but the gemstone in the helm was feeding on kaladins stormlight making it be able to last much longer than it would have for anyone other than a KR.

Its 100% a fabrial designed and created for the KR, think about how hard they would be to kill wearing plate as long as they had a good supply of stormlight.

 

Also note syl has never had a problem with plate but she has expressed her dislike for shardblades multiple times.

 

Well, plate also would need to be quite a bit harder since the KR weren't fighting each other, but rather giant beasts of rock and whatever the listeners turn into as Voidbringers. Also, the fact that the helm got hit so many times seems to imply that stormlight is a far more efficient "battery" for plate than gems are.

[name_here]

From the scene where Dalinar smashed Elhokar's chestplate, I'm pretty sure that the gemstones are all in the chestplate because the other components become inactive when it's smashed.

 

I think Shardplate is the same sort of thing as Honorblades. Firstly, as mentioned it doesn't come with screaming spren. Secondly, it works just fine for modern Radiants. And much like Szeth's Honorblade, it can drain away the user's stormlight very quickly. Also, it can't be the same as modern fabrials, because the gems are interchangeable.

[Gloom]

My primary evidence that Plate is a product of the bond, rather than a fabrial is that they will need it, and they will need it soon. They don't have time to discover or rediscover how to create Plate.

 

Secondary evidence is that Plate was only ever used by the Knights Radiant. They didn't spend the time between desolations creating thousands of new suits of armor for their soldiers. The Knights Radiant were the only people who had access to this armor.

[Era]

My primary evidence that Plate is a product of the bond, rather than a fabrial is that they will need it, and they will need it soon. They don't have time to discover or rediscover how to create Plate.

 

Secondary evidence is that Plate was only ever used by the Knights Radiant. They didn't spend the time between desolations creating thousands of new suits of armor for their soldiers. The Knights Radiant were the only people who had access to this armor.

 

When the heralds return they educate people on how to fight the voidbringers because much is lost, they likely know how to createshard plate.

 

[name_here]

Also, Urithiru seems like the sort of place where you could find a book about it.

[Era]

From the scene where Dalinar smashed Elhokar's chestplate, I'm pretty sure that the gemstones are all in the chestplate because the other components become inactive when it's smashed.

 

I think Shardplate is the same sort of thing as Honorblades. Firstly, as mentioned it doesn't come with screaming spren. Secondly, it works just fine for modern Radiants. And much like Szeth's Honorblade, it can drain away the user's stormlight very quickly. Also, it can't be the same as modern fabrials, because the gems are interchangeable.

That was my other theory, and could actually be right. I just remembered a scene from TWOK where Dalinar is in a vision, one of the KR is speaking with him and is impressed by his swordplay (i think he is in the body of a farmer or something). Dalinar looks away then looks back and says something in his head like wasn't he wearing a helmet just now. As though the helmet just disappeared.

It definately doesnt involve bonding because spren dont have a problem with it and we know honorbladess don't involve bonding so we know its possible.

Also i remember the scene where dalinar is doing worker stuff in his shardplate and asks himself why they never created plate for anyone except warriors. Its a good question and indicates to some extent thats its not as simple as being a fabrial. On the other hand though the answer could just be that it would cost too much.

[JustTee]

So, what do know about the differences between old Shard Plate and new Shard Plate?

 

Radiant Era plate:

• Glowed while in use
• Did not interfere with surgebinding
• Helmets could be dismissed / summoned in an unspecified, but short, time frame
• Gemstones are neither confirmed nor refuted as being inside them

Current Era Plate:

• Does not glow
• Potentially interferes with surgebinding (possibly only if the binding is granted via Honorblade)
• Must be put on the same way as traditional armor
• Gemstones inside give some sort of power-armor like behaviors

Additionally, we know that the gemstones in the hilt of Shard Blades were added post-Knights Radiant, so that you could sync your heartbeat with the dead spren inside the blade, and summon it. From this, we can surmise that the current state of Plate may not be the same state that plate was back in the KR era.

 

 

As far as what I think - I would not be surprised if Shardplate were a fabrial. My reasoning for this is as follows:

 

When the KR threw down their swords / armor, and there was a crazy melee to get pieces of things, there is absolutely no way anyone could have put on the plate by themselves, and whatever allowed the KR to summon/dismiss pieces of their armor would be just as dead as the spren in their swords. So, people would likely have been left with mismatched pieces of armor that they grabbed. Then, later, as they fed the gemstones stormlight, the armor would grow the rest of itself until it was all one set again. This would mean the gemstones are there as a way for the KR to store stormlight nearby, but without having to infuse themselves and have it slowly leak out, as well as a way to fuel the armor's "more than just armor" abilities. 

 

I'm also not going to be surprised if it turns out Shardplate is some sort of "body of your bonded spren" type deal. Reasoning:

 

Shardplate seems to be a living thing. You can grow new plate by feeding it stormlight. Stormlight seems to repair damage based on how the person (or thing?) thinks/feels about themselves (cognitive realm?). I think if you say all 5 ideals, your spren can become armor, should you need it.

 

Or, maybe Shardplate is some sort of symbiotic fabrial/spren bond. Built by men, inhabited by Spren, used to enhance surge binders? I think the fact that the heralds seem to not have plate would suggest that it's man-made or spren-based, rather than Honor granted.

 

Those are just my rambling thoughts.

[name_here]

Dalinar's Plate glows, which is one reason I don't think that it's fundamentally changed.

[Goncho]

I think plate is like a fabrial. Created for a purpose. Fabrial sand plate are both powered by gemstones

[name_here]

I think plate is like a fabrial. Created for a purpose. Fabrial sand plate are both powered by gemstones

 

While I think it was created for a purpose, it does not work on the same principles as fabrials. Since fabrials bind spren in the gemstones, being able to replace gemstones in a fabrial implies being able to create the fabrial, especially because it can self-repair from any subsection.