Hypothetical Immortality

[BitBitio]

So, I was wondering around how much time passes when in a speed/time bubble. In a Cadmium bubble, time within the bubble slows and time around it stays the same. If you were in a bubble, for say, ten minutes, how much time would pass outside? Could you use this bubble to "time travel", so you could go in right after the Last Desolation and come out at the end of Oathbringer?

Thoughts?

[Yata]

For now there is a 8 times ratio showed in books. Probably you could go further but 5000 years are too much regardless.

Of course you could use multiple pulser for that and Compound their bubble

[BitBitio]

So you could charge 10 ettmetal cubes, put them on constant fuel, and slow time to a gradual crawl. You were Yolish and you end up in the room with these cubes and you come out at the end of Mistborn Era 4

Also, could Hoid possibly have used this method?

[Weltall]

Given that Hoid didn't obtain allomancy until very recently (in Big Picture terms) and harmonium is even newer, no. He clearly uses some other method when he wants to skip years, which may or may not be the same one that various worldhoppers have used to greatly extend their lifespans. Consider Khriss and Baon, who are theoretically the oldest characters other than Frost, Hoid and the Vessels (in that order) that we know of. However they're prolonging their lives, it doesn't require the Metallic Arts. Of course in Hoid's case, he's effectively immortal anyways so time dilation is more of a convenience thing for him than a necessity.

Also, bear in mind that while time is traveling at a slower rate for someone inside a cadmium bubble, it's still passing. You can 'time capsule' yourself with it but you're still going to come out older than when you started so it's not exactly immortality in a strict sense.

[Wandering Investor]

It can be used to pass time, Marasi does this on occasion, but I don't think its effective enough for what your thinking. The time still passes, so you'd need food, drink, and you'd have to answer nature's call eventually. So passing a day, maybe even a few, is realistic, beyond that not so much.

[Calderis]

2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

It can be used to pass time, Marasi does this on occasion, but I don't think its effective enough for what your thinking. The time still passes, so you'd need food, drink, and you'd have to answer nature's call eventually. So passing a day, maybe even a few, is realistic, beyond that not so much.

For a single pulse, yeah, but as has been noted the bubbles compound pretty quickly. 

Quote

 

[Weltall]

3 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

It can be used to pass time, Marasi does this on occasion, but I don't think its effective enough for what your thinking. The time still passes, so you'd need food, drink, and you'd have to answer nature's call eventually. So passing a day, maybe even a few, is realistic, beyond that not so much.

Brandon has said that you could use a lot of A-Cadmium as a form of relativistic travel. That said, implicit in this is that time is passing inside the bubble and you'll still grow older and (as you mention and I forgot to) will still need the various necessities of life. Assuming sufficient cadmium reserves, Marasi time-capsuling herself to show up in Era 3 seems like a reasonable hypothetical possibility. Someone using this same method to skip almost five thousand (Scadrian) years from Aharietiam to the time of SA or ten thousand plus from pre-Shattering Yolen to Mistborn Era 4 on the other hand is harder to credit.

[Wandering Investor]

2 hours ago, Calderis said:

For a single pulse, yeah, but as has been noted the bubbles compound pretty quickly. 

 

When you say compound, are you meaning multiple overlapping bubbles? I hadn't considered using a team originally, but if that's how it works then that's plausible.

[Calderis]

20 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

When you say compound, are you meaning multiple overlapping bubbles? I hadn't considered using a team originally, but if that's how it works then that's plausible.

Yes. As the picture shows (not sure why it only linked the image and not the WoB) overlapping bubbles are multiplicative. So 8x8x8x8 time dilation there for four pulsers. 

[Quickbronze]

Using the Feruchemy-powering-Allomancy type compounding could also work, provided you are a Compounder.

[+hwiles]

I don't care for the 8x time multiplier approximation. Wayne routinely slows bullets to a crawl (x100 multiplier) and slows a dynamite blast to a slow walk (x1,000-x10,000 multiplier) in one scene. The amount of slowdown/speedup is extremely situational, apparently controlled more by instinct than intent, and is adjustable by flaring/slow-burning across 4ish orders of magnitude.

[Zath]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:07 PM, Quickbronze said:

Using the Feruchemy-powering-Allomancy type compounding could also work, provided you are a Compounder.

Actually, Twinborn Compounding only works for the Feruchemical ability (they can Allomantically burn their stored Feruchemical attribute). So a Cadmium Twinborn Compounder would be able to compound breath, and thus go without breathing for a far longer period of time than a normal Gasper Ferring, but they wouldn't be able to boost their Allomantic Cadmium time-bubbles that way.  Their Pulser abilities wouldn't necessarily be any more or less powerful than any other Pulser Misting.

 

I love the idea of a Cadmium time-capsule thing.  Imagine a Nicroburst and a Pulser teaming up:

"I say, Bill, why don't we pop ahead a few hundred years and see if they've invented instant noodles yet, eh, chap?"

"Splendid idea, George ol' boy!  Let me grab my Cadmium shavings and we'll be off in a jiffy!"

 

I'd think that any time-capsule-travelers would have to find a really safe, stable place to set up their Cadmium bubble.  What would happen if there was an earthquake, or a building fell towards them, or something?  If the rest of the world is going super fast, they wouldn't have time to react to anything like that, would they?

[Quickbronze]

Not so, per these two(admittedly tenuous) WoBs

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

I asked him about what the board refers to as "reverse" compounding - i.e., using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, rather than the other way around. I wanted to make sure that it was really a thing that exists.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that it was.

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

Is this what the Southern Scadrians have been doing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's similar, but not exactly the same.

source

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

source Edited May 7, 2018 by Quickbronze

[Zath]

On 5/7/2018 at 3:09 PM, Quickbronze said:

Not so, per these two (admittedly tenuous) WoBs

Hmmm...  Regarding that first WoB (Kaymyth's question), I would guess that... (Bands of Mourning spoilers)

Spoiler

...Brandon was talking about Feruchemical Nicrosil when he said it was possible to use Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy.  Unless he was talking specifically about reverse compounding... Curse his almost-certainly-deliberate obfuscating!  That mad, secretive genius!

That second WoB (from Chaos) definitely seems to support the idea of reverse compounding (the "implied" part does throw some doubt into the mix though, obviously). I'll refrain from saying anything more here and instead I'll go look for a reverse compounding topic in the Cosmere Theories section.  

 

Anyways... time travel with Cadmium bubbles! Neat, huh? (Didn't mean to derail the thread, my bad)

[goody153]

On 5/8/2018 at 5:09 AM, Quickbronze said:

Not so, per these two(admittedly tenuous) WoBs

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

I asked him about what the board refers to as "reverse" compounding - i.e., using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, rather than the other way around. I wanted to make sure that it was really a thing that exists.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that it was.

Kaymyth (paraphrased)

Is this what the Southern Scadrians have been doing?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's similar, but not exactly the same.

source

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

source

Reverse compounding to enhance allomancy is interesting. It makes sense with Lord Rulers's soothing covering a literal city without using duralumin through that since no matter if he is the allomancer with the most allomantic strength and already savant about it. That was some insane range of soothing. 

I guess this secret died with the Lord Ruler but maybe Marsh eventually figured this one out. Or Ruin made Marsh do such thing so he learned about it

[Wandering Investor]

Reverse compounding can be achieved through nicrosil. Feruchemy can store innate investiture in nicrosil, including feruchemy and allomancy. So you can store your ability to burn pewter in a nicrosil-mind, then withdraw it later for enchanced pewter burning. You can also burn the nicrosil-mind in order to compound the stored power, allowing for compounded allomancy powers. 

Of course, to make this work you have to either be a full Allomancer/Feruchemist like the Lord Ruler, or you have to make the metalminds useable to anyone like the Southern Scadrial(ians?).

[Calderis]

On 6/12/2018 at 6:57 AM, Wandering Investor said:

Reverse compounding can be achieved through nicrosil. Feruchemy can store innate investiture in nicrosil, including feruchemy and allomancy. So you can store your ability to burn pewter in a nicrosil-mind, then withdraw it later for enchanced pewter burning. You can also burn the nicrosil-mind in order to compound the stored power, allowing for compounded allomancy powers. 

Of course, to make this work you have to either be a full Allomancer/Feruchemist like the Lord Ruler, or you have to make the metalminds useable to anyone like the Southern Scadrial(ians?).

You also have to have nicrosil, which they didn't have the means to produce in TFE. 

And you can be sure that, after discovering what TLR was and how he achieved his immortality, any unfamiliar metal found on him would have been tested. 

[Wandering Investor]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

You also have to have nicrosil, which they didn't have the means to produce in TFE. 

And you can be sure that, after discovering what TLR was and how he achieved his immortality, any unfamiliar metal found on him would have been tested. 

oooo I hadn't thought of that. Could he have had nicrosil combined into his armbands? I'm no metallurgist, but a quick wiki search suggest the materials could have been available, if the TLR knew what the goal was.

[Weltall]

Brandon has confirmed that Rashek knew a lot of things, including about nicrosil.

Quote

Chaos (paraphrased)

We asked some questions about the Lord Ruler, like if he knew about chromium and nicrosil.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Brandon said he knew about those metals, and then also said "The Lord Ruler knew a lot of things that no one knows."

source

So, if Rashek could refine silicon (and considering how and when the Bands of Mourning were created, it must have been possible) he could have made use of F-Nicrosil. It's possilbe that he did have some mystery metals that were never found, given that the legend of the Bands relies on the belief that he did leave behind metalminds. We know he didn't create them but in-universe there's an acceptance that he may have had some metalminds that nobody found after his death.