"Trace metals" in Luthadel and the Pits

[+robardin]

Random thought crossed my mind the other day... Maybe it's been brought up before in a WoB, andI look to the usual gurus to elaborate and elucidate  

Vin has been Mistborn basically her whole life, and Kelsier and co. are cued onto her because Marsh (as a Seeker) detects her Allomancy before she even knows she's doing it. He tells her during her Seeking lesson with him that she'd Soothed him "eight months ago, in my shop", knew she was Mistborn because she was also burning pewter and tin that day, "just a tiny bit, barely noticeable. You probably got the metals from water and dining utensils", and commented that that she could do so unconsciously meant she was very "attuned" to Allomancy.

Earlier, Kelsier had said the same thing about Vin's observation that she felt something familiar about burning pewter - it was because of "trace metals" from "water contaminated by metals" or utensils. Upon which Vin recalled there being pewterware in use by Camon's crew (though being an alloy pure enough to use Allomantically was surely a lucky coincidence, though maybe its impurity was partially responsible for a very low level reaction).

Well, what about brass, steel, and iron then? It seems odd that the only Allomantic power that Vin was conscious of using for most of her life was her "Luck", which she didn't associate with a metal, yet which is based on burning the relatively uncommon brass. Where was she getting a regular, if small, supply of "trace brass"? Did Camon figure out she was a Soother (no way could he have imagined her a full Mistborn?!), and surreptitiously supplied her with brass in her food or water? (Could someone even drink water with brass shavings and not know?) Or was being in Luthadel somehow part of it, that maybe there are so many Allomancers there (especially with all the Steel Ministry "Soothing Stations" we find out about later) that there are is fact "trace amounts of brass" contaminating the local water supply?

And surely the most common metals of all would be iron and steel. Who hasn't chewed on a steel fork to get all the melted cheese off of it, or gnawed desperately at the iron manacles on one's wrist? (Well, maybe not the second one, I hope?) Wouldn't Vin the Instinctively Attuned Mistborn have some familiarity with Steelsight, even if she'd never thought to Push with steel until taught by Kelsier?

Finally, when Kelsier Snapped at the Pits, how did he do the Kill Everyone And Escape bit, exactly? "That night [when Mare was killed], Kelsier had Snapped, coming into his powers as a Mistborn. The next night, men had died. Many men." So it's implied he did it with Allomancy, even as yet untrained with Steel and Iron. I guess also with "trace pewter" from pewterware used by the doomed slaves at the Pit, either pure enough or in large enough quantities that he was able to slaughter his way out, while also discovering Allomancy's effect on the geodes. ("Hey, you slave! Why are you swallowing all those spoons? Suicide is -- OH, NO...!")

So, is it fair to say that the End of the Final Empire really came about because TLR never legislated that common pewterware be made of an alloy insufficiently pure for Allomantic use? Pretty sloppy, Rashek. For a guy who was so careful with the atium mining and cavern preparations over centuries upon centuries... Pretty sloppy.

Hey, was Ruin responsible for that? Wow, that Ati, he played a deep and subtle long game!

Edited April 10, 2018 by robardin

[Oversleep]

18 minutes ago, robardin said:

Finally, when Kelsier Snapped at the Pits, how did he do the Kill Everyone And Escape bit, exactly? "That night [when Mare was killed], Kelsier had Snapped, coming into his powers as a Mistborn. The next night, men had died. Many men." So it's implied he did it with Allomancy, even as yet untrained with Steel and Iron. I guess also with "trace pewter" from pewterware used by the doomed slaves at the Pit, either pure enough or in large enough quantities that he was able to slaughter his way out, while also discovering Allomancy's effect on the geodes. ("Hey, you slave! Why are you swallowing all those spoons? Suicide is -- OH, NO...!")

Actually... he worked in atium mine.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

The Allomancers to keep out of the Pits would have been Lurchers or Coinshots (who could have destroyed the crystals), and to a lesser extent Thugs (who could be difficult to control.) Mistborn, of course, needed to be kept far, far away, lest they get their hands on atium.

source

Once he got some atium, the rest was easy. He probably picked up a few metals in the meantime, but everything boils down to atium.

[+robardin]

Just now, Oversleep said:

Actually... he worked in atium mine.

Once he got some atium, the rest was easy. He probably picked up a few metals in the meantime, but everything boils down to atium.

Yeeeah, I guess that should have been obvious, on second thought.

"Why is this emaciated skaa slave charging a group of 20 armed guards, brandishing a wooden spoon? What's he gonna do, scoop us to death?"

scoop dodge twirl scoop

scoop

scoop

OH LORD RULER WHAT IS HAPPENING

 

 

 

[The One Who Connects]

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

Or was being in Luthadel somehow part of it, that maybe there are so many Allomancers there (especially with all the Steel Ministry "Soothing Stations" we find out about later) that there are is fact "trace amounts of brass" contaminating the local water supply?

Rashek built Luthadel where he did because of the sheer amounts of metal deposits in the surrounding ground. Fuel for Allomancers galore, Vision Impairment for Ruin, and a good source of "community service projects." I wouldn't be surprised to find out there was a lot of metal mixed with the minerals that bled into the water supply over the centuries.

7 minutes ago, robardin said:

Earlier, Kelsier had said the same thing about Vin's observation that she felt something familiar about burning pewter - it was because of "trace metals" from "water contaminated by metals" or utensils.
Wouldn't Vin the Instinctively Attuned Mistborn have some familiarity with Steelsight, even if she'd never thought to Push with steel until taught by Kelsier?

She burns pewter instinctively after Sazed rescues her from the nighttime Inquisitor fight. I don't think Steel gets burned by instinct, and I think that has a little to do with the power itself. Pewter gives the body strength, and that's something Vin would definitely want after getting beaten by Camon or his cohorts. That's Intent, which is important to all magics. Before learning that it could be done, I don't think she'd had a point where she wanted to telekinesis something, intentionally or jokingly, so it didn't happen.

Additionally, given the apparent commonness of pewterware, maybe steel/iron silverware wasn't as widespread. The nobles would probably use proper silver or something because they're pretentious, and the common people would use something cheap. (I could be talking nonsense, if steel/iron was easier to make than pewter, since I'm no expert.) If pewter wasn't the cheaper option, then perhaps Iron/Steel Allomancers were more common or Tin/Pewter mines were more common, so silverware adjusted according.

18 minutes ago, robardin said:

being pewterware in use by Camon's crew (though being an alloy pure enough to use Allomantically was surely a lucky coincidence,

Remember Kelsier's line about shopkeeps not wanting to be the one dealing with a slighted Mistborn with a headache?

Given the large influence the existence of Allomancers had on the Scadrian Market over the past millennium, that stigma probably carried over to some of the other shops, even if it was for mundane things like cups and spoons. That extra metal from the spoon could save my life or get me killed, and I know which of those two outcomes I would want. I'd rather have everybody get it right (even if it gives my enemy the same advantage), than to risk a bad alloy in a crisis.

[Weltall]

42 minutes ago, robardin said:

So, is it fair to say that the End of the Final Empire really came about because TLR never legislated that common pewterware be made of an alloy insufficiently pure for Allomantic use? Pretty sloppy, Rashek. For a guy who was so careful with the atium mining and cavern preparations over centuries upon centuries... Pretty sloppy.

My guess is that adulterating pewter sufficiently to have no allomantic effect would either be economically impractical or dangerous for the use it's meant for (ie, plates and forks and such) but someone who knows more about metallurgy should probably weigh in there.

Another thought that occurs to me is that trying to legislate something like this tells everyone who works with pewter (and not just the people who supply metalborn with their metals) something about the alloy and its ratios. The skaa aren't really supposed to know anything about allomancy, so trying to enforce a seemingly arbitrary rule about alloy composition across the entire Final Empire would tell anyone paying attention that there's something important about pewter. Maybe that's enough and the potential spread of knowledge was seen as more dangerous than a small number of illegal metalborn being able to get trace amounts of pewter through their diningware.

EDIT: Or @The One Who Connects could have it, since 'legitimate' metalborn benefit from pewterware being usable in a pinch as well.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Weltall

[marles]

I don't know if it is actually the case but I always kind of thought that trace metals being available in the drinking water and pewter ware was on purpose. I was assuming that TLR and Inquisitors used that to find mistings or mistborn more easily among the Skaa. They could then use those mistings to create hemalurgic spikes or to track down nobility that was breaking the rules if they really needed to.

Edited April 10, 2018 by marles

[+robardin]

33 minutes ago, marles said:

I don't know if it is actually the case but I always kind of thought that trace metals being available in the drinking water and pewter ware was on purpose. I was assuming that TLR and Inquisitors used that to find mistings or mistborn more easily among the Skaa. They could then use those mistings to create hemalurgic spikes or to track down nobility that was breaking the rules if they really needed to.

Yeah I could buy trace zinc in the water, not so much brass. But Ministry "contamination" to highlight any unconscious skaa Allomancy would be pretty plausible.

[marles]

6 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yeah I could buy trace zinc in the water, not so much brass. But Ministry "contamination" to highlight any unconscious skaa Allomancy would be pretty plausible.

Why not brass? TLR already had tons of soothing stations around the city, I don't know that some Skaa having an unconscious access to soothing would have disrupted anything. Also, I don't remember who was doing all of the soothing in the stations but finding soothers within the population could have helped supply them with people to do all of the soothing across the city. I find it hard to believe that the Inquisitors and Obligators could fully man all the soothing stations around the city without any supplemental help.

Given the low number of mistings/mistborn within the Skaa population I wouldn't think that any of the physical or mental metals being in the water would cause too many problems for TLR and his Inquisitors, especially if it was purposefully done and the Inquisitors would be expecting it. And since the metals are in trace amounts and the Skaa weren't exactly the most informed when it came to allomancy they could hardly use it to mount any type of offensive against the empire.

[+robardin]

I meant that Ministry tampering would be a very plausible reason for there being trace amounts of brass in the water in Luthadel. Because it's not otherwise a naturally occurring or commonly used alloy that would be available to skaa in routine circumstances.

[marles]

16 hours ago, robardin said:

I meant that Ministry tampering would be a very plausible reason for there being trace amounts of brass in the water in Luthadel. Because it's not otherwise a naturally occurring or commonly used alloy that would be available to skaa in routine circumstances.

Yeah I completely misunderstood your post. I was thinking you meant that you could see them purposefully contaminating the water with zinc but not with brass and I couldn't really think of a reason why they would do one and not the other. Thanks for the clarification!