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[OB] Kaladin, Unite Them!


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It was the very first thing that I thought when I read Kaladin chapters. It is pretty obvious that for this conflict to finally get solved, I mean really solved not just postponed, there have to be some special people and Kaladin wanted to protect all those people on both sides is first step but I am very curious about how will Sanderson tell sotry like this. Will Odium be ultimate evil or even his approach about passions and people needing them will start to make sense? 
In therms of leading I dont think Kaladin has to be leader to be protector and peacemaker he could be outside it all.

Edited by Yvainnie
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I first thought you were going to go in the direction of Kaladin becoming a Bondsmith, and while you ended up not doing so, I'm going to drag up a very obscure WoB and go in that direction anyways:

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#26

Quote

THE_ARCHDUKE

Could a Knight Radiant pass their Nahel bond the way Seons can be passed in Elantris?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Theoretically possible and in fact has happened (!) in previous eras.

Now, I don't remember exactly where it was (I think at the end of Part I where Kaladin held off the highstorm?), but at some point a number of gloryspren appear around him, and Syl "swats one [of them] away" and says "he's mine".

What if, at some point, Kaladin transfers his bond with Syl to someone else (someone from Bridge Four? His brother? His father? Someone else?) and then becomes a Bondsmith, who seem to already be associated with gloryspren?

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46 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

 

Now, I don't remember exactly where it was (I think at the end of Part I where Kaladin held off the highstorm?), but at some point a number of gloryspren appear around him, and Syl "swats one [of them] away" and says "he's mine".

What if, at some point, Kaladin transfers his bond with Syl to someone else (someone from Bridge Four? His brother? His father? Someone else?) and then becomes a Bondsmith, who seem to already be associated with gloryspren?

This is really interesting! Syl's reaction implies it is possible, but I can't actually  imagine Kal giving up Syl or windrunning

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4 minutes ago, Song said:

This is really interesting! Syl's reaction implies it is possible, but I can't actually  imagine Kal giving up Syl or windrunning

I have absolutely nothing to base this on, but what if Dalinar dies and for some reason they need the Stormfather, so Kaladin decides, in the moment, to give his bond to someone else and then bonds the Stormfather?

Edited by Leyrann
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1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

I first thought you were going to go in the direction of Kaladin becoming a Bondsmith, and while you ended up not doing so, I'm going to drag up a very obscure WoB and go in that direction anyways:

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#26

Now, I don't remember exactly where it was (I think at the end of Part I where Kaladin held off the highstorm?), but at some point a number of gloryspren appear around him, and Syl "swats one [of them] away" and says "he's mine".

What if, at some point, Kaladin transfers his bond with Syl to someone else (someone from Bridge Four? His brother? His father? Someone else?) and then becomes a Bondsmith, who seem to already be associated with gloryspren?

Well I dont think that in order to unite people you have to be Bondsmith. SA series seems to be about people who are not like old KR but something new and possibly better. Some of them are starting to grow beyond KR. 

Also I wonder if gloryspren are actually attracted to glory, I think they have wrong name and there is more to them than just glory.

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1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

I first thought you were going to go in the direction of Kaladin becoming a Bondsmith, and while you ended up not doing so, I'm going to drag up a very obscure WoB and go in that direction anyways:

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#26

Now, I don't remember exactly where it was (I think at the end of Part I where Kaladin held off the highstorm?), but at some point a number of gloryspren appear around him, and Syl "swats one [of them] away" and says "he's mine".

What if, at some point, Kaladin transfers his bond with Syl to someone else (someone from Bridge Four? His brother? His father? Someone else?) and then becomes a Bondsmith, who seem to already be associated with gloryspren?

I was thinking along those lines. I actually had that quote but removed it from the original post as it didn't seem to fit with the flow, possibly because it points at a conclusion that is bad for Dalinar (and Syl), and I didn't want to go too far down the prediction road. It was:

Quote

Gloryspren burst up about Kaladin’s head.
Syl took on the form of a person just so she could glower at the little bobbing balls of light. “Mine,” she said, swatting one of them aside.

The WoB you added certainly adds spice to it. Foreshadowing? One of those things we look back on later and say "Aha! It was here all along!"?

Edited by Stormfather-in-Law
added Syl
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I don’t have the WoB on hand but I remember there being one that it is technically possible for someone to bond two spren at once. What if, rather than Kaladin passing on his bond to Syl, Dalinars bond to the Stormfather gets passed to Kaladin and our favourite flying Bridgeboy becomes the true master of the sky and storms?

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29 minutes ago, Hufdud said:

I don’t have the WoB on hand but I remember there being one that it is technically possible for someone to bond two spren at once. What if, rather than Kaladin passing on his bond to Syl, Dalinars bond to the Stormfather gets passed to Kaladin and our favourite flying Bridgeboy becomes the true master of the sky and storms?

Good one.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/156-words-of-radiance-lexington-signing/#e2841

Quote

tganchero (paraphrased)

Is it true that humans can bond to multiple spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They can theoretically bond to multiple spren.

This is now my new favorite theory. Dalinar will give the bond to the Stormfather to Kaladin at some point, and he gets access to three Surges instead of the usual 2, and maybe even something extra for Adhesion?

Also: Remember how Kaladin rode the storm and, as far as I am aware, is the only one other than Dalinar who has talked to the Stormfather (except when the Stormfather was speaking to Dalinar and others at once, like at Dalinar and Navani's marriage)

Edited by Leyrann
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It's an interesting theory, but I'm content to think that Dalinar will Unite them, and then Kaladin will Protect them.

But if Kaladin must bond the Stormfather, I think it should be instead of Syl, not in addition to her. I can see a super dramatic scenario where Dalinar and Syl both end up dead, leaving Kaladin and the Stormfather free to bond each other. Maybe Kaladin will be responsible for Syl's death, and Stormfather will hate him for it, but he'll honor Dalinar's memory by choosing forgiveness.

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1 hour ago, Belzedar said:

It's an interesting theory, but I'm content to think that Dalinar will Unite them, and then Kaladin will Protect them.

But if Kaladin must bond the Stormfather, I think it should be instead of Syl, not in addition to her. I can see a super dramatic scenario where Dalinar and Syl both end up dead, leaving Kaladin and the Stormfather free to bond each other. Maybe Kaladin will be responsible for Syl's death, and Stormfather will hate him for it, but he'll honor Dalinar's memory by choosing forgiveness.

I think that if anything then this makes much more sense but still why built whole "I protect" thing just to have him abandon it for uniting which is clearly meant for Dalinar and Dalinar has some amazing development which would all be pointless. Also I think that for Kaladin to be responsible for Syl death it could only be reversible death like when he did not protect Elhokar.

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If Syl dies, I'll stop reading SA probably. I don't think it makes much sense for Kaladin to become a Bondsmith. You can only have three, and Kaladin is already a Windrunner. His way of dealing with that dilemma of us and them is not inherently magical, but a normal personal struggle.

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Perhaps this is a possibility - after I finally understood the chart with the orders -more or less - there was one point that facinated me, this point in the middle where every order is connected.

Looking with "misted" eyes then

Spoiler

the orders would be akin to the Mistings and the point in the middle the place for a full Mistborn.

 

Also what Evi told about the One - the Nightwatcher is its/her avatar. The middle-point is possibly the Cultivation-point.

I'm not sure if Kaladin is able to bond more spren, but I believe Edgedancer was another possibility for him without Roshone and he heals and remembers all-the-time.

Edited by hypatia
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10 hours ago, hypatia said:

Perhaps this is a possibility - after I finally understood the chart with the orders -more or less - there was one point that facinated me, this point in the middle where every order is connected.

Looking with "misted" eyes then

  Hide contents

the orders would be akin to the Mistings and the point in the middle the place for a full Mistborn.

 

Also what Evi told about the One - the Nightwatcher is its/her avatar. The middle-point is possibly the Cultivation-point.

I'm not sure if Kaladin is able to bond more spren, but I believe Edgedancer was another possibility for him without Roshone and he heals and remembers all-the-time.

Are you proposing some kind of catch 'em all with spren?

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Kaladin as a Bondsmith just doesn't make any sense. He's a Windrunner and we saw his progression as a Windrunner since book one.He has two more ideals to swear and we have only two books in this story arc.Trying something else is madness.
Same for Dalinar. "Unite them"-thing is his story arc since WoK.Even the very first chapter where he appears called "Unity". Is it cool to take very personal story from the character and give it to another one, who has nothing to do with it?No, this is worst scenario ever.And in that case, why Dalinar's character even exists in the books?Brandon could gave Stormfather to Kaladin in the beginning of the story and didn't bother himself to write Dalinar.Why writing huge book about Dalinar's relationships with Stormfather, if in the end it does not play any role? It's a nonsense.
So no, this won't happen.Dalinar has his own story arc and his own spren, kaladin has his own story and spren.They both should progress in their own Order.
And I have to admit, in WoK Dalinar thought same things about parshendies.Does his task to "unite them" includes parshendies or not.
As for bonding multiple sprens.Venli has both voidspren and Timbre.

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I don't really think this will be a theme for the first arc, but even without war and having a target painted on his back, Dalinar will age. His story centers much more the past then the future.

As for Kaladin - I'm not sure he'll be the "one", but his conflicts are , as I see it, already increased because he could fit in different orders.

This thinking of "us" and "them" was learned in the army and should be more the problem of a Stoneward.

He heals everyone and remembers all he has lost on his way - people we would forget without Kaladin thinking about them every time in a crisis - his old comrades, Cenn, Dunny....

He has already united people within the bridgecrews.

He discusses with Szeth about justice.

All in all - it is harder for him and nit just because of his depressions.

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3 minutes ago, hypatia said:

I don't really think this will be a theme for the first arc, but even without war and having a target painted on his back, Dalinar will age. His story centers much more the past then the future.

This is an important part in my opinion. If Kaladin will bond a second spren or something like that, I don't think it will happen in the first arc.

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Really, I don't believe Kaladin will be the one bonding more than one spren. For me this observations have perhaps to do with his 4. oath - he will have to decide, to get rid of the influences that are in conflict with his order.

As a Windrunner he's a fighter, but not a soldier. He doesn't need "us" or "them", just the people who can't defend themselves.

He has learned to heal with conventional methods, but he don't have Edgedancer-abilities and so on.

Like he said - he WAS a surgeon, a soldier, a slave - but now he should concentrate on being a Windrunner. I believe the moment he"ll speak the next oath, his slavebrand  will be gone.

He has to expand his own abilities and learn to share the problems of the world with his fellow radiants - he must trust their abilities.

The other problem I see with "us" and "them" - he was always told whom he shall see as "them", he tricks himself in looking at the situation this way. What leads him in Kholinar to forget the one person in the room who is in fact his responsibility - Gavinor.

For a moment I nearly was in panic - this could have killed Syl if he had consciously decided like with Elhokar's assassination.

Edited by hypatia
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I don't really see Kaladin bonding another spren. This is entirely speculation on my part, but I feel that his arc, at least for the front half, will be mainly about him coming to terms with his depression and survivors guilt over the deaths of so many friends and allies as he grows to accept his responsibilities as a leader (as opposed to THE leader) within the ranks of the reformed KR.

I'm on mobile so I don't have links, but I feel like it was implied that the idea for Dalinar was the root of what evolved into the story for the SA. Now that we have a deeper dig into his past in OB, I believe that at the core of the front half at least, this is the story of his gradual ascension from ruthless monster to godhood. As far as what that means for the Bondsmiths, we will have to wait and see. I do think that if that job fell to Kaladin, it would keep him at the front of the narrative, and we know that our front half main protagonists are going to have lesser roles in the back half.

I guess my point is that I believe that if we started swapping spren around with either of them, it would throw thier character progression out of the window and would likely feel very unsatisfying to read. Again, this is just me speculating.

Edited by Solant
Typos
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On 4/9/2018 at 3:30 PM, Vissy said:

If Syl dies, I'll stop reading SA probably. I don't think it makes much sense for Kaladin to become a Bondsmith. You can only have three, and Kaladin is already a Windrunner.

I agree Syl dying would be a tragedy, and I don't think Brandon would do that. Though I think I read somewhere that he admired George R.R. Martin's method of killing off important characters, I don't think he'll do that. However, as several people pointed out, Syl dying is only one speculative way this could come to pass. I think passing the bond would be more likely.

Quote

His way of dealing with that dilemma of us and them is not inherently magical, but a normal personal struggle.

This rings true to me, but at the same time, Kaladin's personal struggles have a strong effect on magic through his bond with Syl. Not just in the way his adherence to oaths affects her and affects his personal power. The whole squire concept means that people in that Kaladin consider "Us" gain magical abilities. I don't think you can separate them that easily.

The whole episode with Kaladin's squires was really the genesis of my post. That members of Bridge Four, who shared in Kaladin's personal struggle through great hardship together, would become his squires makes total sense. But when people started getting added to the mix that never experienced any of that, I started wondering where the limits were. Does Kaladin identifying with them make them his squires, or does their feeling of inclusion in Kaladin's group make it happen? I really don't know; probably both. But I did start paying more attention to Kal's relationship with Bridge Four and their collective sense of identity.

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Unity is not his MO though. Kaladin doesn't seek to unite, he seeks to protect people and actively also seeks to lead them. He's asserting himself into positions of power and authority very strongly. And besides, I don't believe for a second that Syl would ever willingly "pass on the bond". She's like a soulmate to Kaladin at this point, literally actually.

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