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Correct me if I'm wrong, but, don't we know all the names of the Heralds?

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Are there any theories on the Vorin insistence on palindromes? I'm relatively new here, so I don't know if that's something that people have discussed, or if it is just assumed to be a religious quirk. 

 

Vorinism is coo-coo for symmetry. They consider it divine. Palindromes are symmetrical to the extreme. If you're asking why they're so hung up on symmetry, I'm not sure. Culture is like that. There does seem to be a lot of 'divine' symmetry when you look at things like the Radiant glyphs and the Dawncities, though. There might be inspiration to be found there.

Edited by Moogle
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True.  I guess you can't put much stock into people's reactions when Hoid is around.

I do find Chan-a-rach to be a bizarre deviation from the rest of the Herald names.  I briefly just toyed in my head with the idea that the Heralds (as they're likely not native to Roshar), are each from a different Shardworld initially, and maybe we could figure it out based on their "real" names.  But that doesn't really make that much sense, so it's probably best to just take it at face value :)

 

EDIT:

 

 

Vorinism is coo-coo for symmetry. They consider it divine. Palindromes are symmetrical to the extreme. If you're asking why they're so hung up on symmetry, I'm not sure. Culture is like that. There does seem to be a lot of 'divine' symmetry when you look at things like the Radiant glyphs and the Dawncities, though. There might be inspiration to be found there.

 

My apologies, my post wasn't very clear. Gotta work on that.  I was wondering more as to why Vorinism was so coo coo for symmetry in general, using the Herald names as an example.  It's clearly very important, and I wondered if there were theories about a stronger meaning behind it, or just one of those things that a religion latches on to as being important.  

Edited by Ryshadium
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Vorinism is coo-coo for symmetry. They consider it divine. Palindromes are symmetrical to the extreme. If you're asking why they're so hung up on symmetry, I haven't the faintest. Culture is like that.

 

Actually all Rosharans are big on symmetry. In fact, their thing probably predates Vorinism; just look at the Silver Kingdoms. Which isn't all that surprising actually. There is a lot of symmetry in the Roshar geography, Dawncities and such. Roshar--the supercontinent--itself is more or less symmetrical. It's not surprising they would assign some divinity to symmetry, and from there it's a short step to palindromes being holy.

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I just finished re-reading Lift's interlude and I noticed this

 

“Praise Yaezir,” he said. “Herald of Kings. May he lead in wisdom. If he ever stops drooling.” (WoR p. 706)
 
also
 
Praise to Yaezir, Kadasix of Kings, may he lead in wisdom. (WoR p. 706)
 
Could Yaezir be the Azish name for Jezrien?
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Yeah, that's the general consensus. It's possible that there is something cultural going on, and the Azish are using it differently, but I've seen no reason to assume Yaezir is not Jezrien.

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I always thought as Taln as a nickname or abbreviation for Talenel, given that his how he introduces himself.

Even better, we have confirmation from Kalak's PoV, who uses both names for him. So if we see any more Herald introductions like Talenel's, we can be pretty sure it's the real names, and that the language magic isn't localizing them.

“Talenel,” Kalak said. His was the only Blade unaccounted for.

...

“And Taln?” Kalak asked. The flesh burning. The fires. The pain over and over and over…

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In this case I will assume Talenel is his real name, and Taln is just a nickname Kalak uses for him.

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That doesn't track. All Vorin names of the Heralds are symmetrical (the letter h is kinda like a wildcard; Jezerezeh or Pailiah). There is no reason for Chan-a-rach to break the pattern that the other nine Heralds form. I am pretty confident Chanaranach is the Vorin name.

 

In most languages, "ch" is a single phonetic sound and so should be considered a single letter.  There is another example in WoR that I am forgetting right now that was a perfect palindrome except for "th", which made it clear that Brandon is thinking of these palindromes phonetically.

 

This means the only problem with Chan-a-rach is the relationship between the "n" and the "r". Both are sonorants, with the primary difference being that "n" is nasal, while "r" is not.  Hence the pairing looks to be similar to a forced rhyme.

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Yeah, that's the general consensus. It's possible that there is something cultural going on, and the Azish are using it differently, but I've seen no reason to assume Yaezir is not Jezrien.

 

It could also be dialectic drift. Yaezir sounds alot like the first syllable of Jezrien if you pronounce the 'J' as 'Y'. Jezr -> Yezr -> Yaezir

 

It works even better with his Vorin name of Jezerezeh. In fact, it might even illuminate something about Azish culture in that they don't use the palindromic version of the name.

 

 

It would also be interesting to know why they call the Heralds kadasix.

Edited by sailense
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It could also be dialectic drift. Yaezir sounds alot like the first syllable of Jezrien if you pronounce the 'J' as 'Y'. Jezr -> Yezr -> Yaezir

 

It's how you are supposed to pronounce it. Jasnah sounds like Yasnah, Jah Kaved is Yah Kaved, and so on. At least in Alethkar and Jah Kaved.

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Nalan's true name is obviously Nale. Szeth says he is called that in the East and the Vorin church wouldn't invent an asymmetry like that.

Edited by Quazar87
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"The East" to Szeth could be anything east of Shinovar, though.

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Heh, true that.

 

But I'll remain a tiny bit skeptical, just because we hear the name from a person who is not a Herald. There is a very good chance the Shin have preserved the knowledge of the Heralds much better than the Alethi, but still...

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Well at least one of the Herald's true names survive into modern times. Sigzil tells of Jezrien during a story to Bridge 4 in tWoK, and says that the Vorrin call him Jezerezeh. Therefore at least some people know some of the real names of the Heralds. Maybe Nale is one of those names? Who knows. Answer: Brandon.

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Given that scholars have been writing books that mention the Heralds for a long time (one such book is Words of Radiance, author unknown; also, I'll bet Nohadon mentions them by name a few times in the Way of Kings), one would think that what the Heralds called themselves was already common knowledge among the well-educated.

 

I don't think the Vorin ardents are suppressing that information. Even in Earth religions, a person gaining a religious name does not necessarily render his previous name taboo. Most of the time you just have to know when to use one and when to use the other. So I won't be surprised if the ardents themselves use the Heralds' "real names" in discussions of history among scholars, and their "holy names" in discussions of theology or spirituality.

Edited by skaa
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All ten Heralds have been mentioned at some point by their real names, which are as follows:


 


Jezrien              Jezerezeh


Nale                  Nalan


Chana               Chanaranach


Vedel                 Vedeledev


Pali                    ???


Ash                    Shalash


Battar                Batab


Kalak                 Kelek


Talenel              Talenelat


Ishar                  Ishi


 


The only one we don't know is Pali's Vorin name.


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Interesting, I missed Pali in the Taravangian episode. I am starting to think that some of the exclamations (Pali's hand) in this case aren't their original names either. Hmmmmm

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I'm interested in the characteristic associated with each Herald. I've made an best estimate list.

 

Jezrien Jezerezeh - King of Heralds, Herald of Protection

 

Nale Nalan - Herald of Justice

 

Chana Chanaranach - Herald of Courage

 

Vedel Vedeledev - Herald of Healing

 

Pali ??? - Herald of Knowledge

 

Ash Shalash - Herald of Beauty

 

Battar Batab - Herald of Wisdom

 

Kalak Kelek - Herald of Building

 

Talenel Talenelat - Herald of War

 

Ishar Ishi - Herald of Luck

 

feel free to propose better fitting epithets.

Edited by grinachu
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Pali is called Pailiah in Vorinism.  Adolin mentions her before his duel.

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