Correct me if I'm wrong, but, don't we know all the names of the Heralds?

[Lightflame Worldbringer]

According to the Coppermind, the name of the last female Herald, the one associated with Chach, and with the Dustbringers/Releasers, is unknown. However, I know for a fact that it was revealed in Words of Radiance. Is this a case of me needing to edit the Coppermind, or did everyone else actually miss this? It was revealed in Hoid's "Fleet" story.

 

 

"In time long past, in times I've known, he raced the Herald Chan-a-rach. He won that race, as he did each one, but now the time for defeat had come."

- Words of Radiance, Chapter 59, Page 729

 

This quite clearly confirms Chan-a-rach to be the Chach Herald's name.

 

I'm not sure if this deserved it's own topic, so I'll just throw in a random bit of speculation. Since all the Heralds seem to be acting reverse-honourably, could Elhokar's wife Aesudan be a Herald? (Probably not, but maybe.)

[DiamondMind Cobalt Guard]

You're right, and I think someone else pointed this out earlier. There are a few more times that Chanarach is mentioned in the book. The wiki hasn't been updated by anyone yet, but you can do it!

[Argent Splinter]

I was under the impression that we know only a few of the Heralds' real names. In fact, just a couple of hours ago I was going to create a new topic to see which ones we are confident about - because I can only think of about half of them: Jezrien, Ishar, Taln, and Kalak from The Way of Kings prelude; Shalash might be just Ash (I don't believe any of the Heralds had a palindromic name originally), but that's about it. 

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I was under the impression that we know only a few of the Heralds' real names. In fact, just a couple of hours ago I was going to create a new topic to see which ones we are confident about - because I can only think of about half of them: Jezrien, Ishar, Taln, and Kalak from The Way of Kings prelude; Shalash might be just Ash (I don't believe any of the Heralds had a palindromic name originally), but that's about it. 

 

I was under this impression as well - I don't know where to put Nalan in this, because he calls himself Nin to Szeth. I don't know how accurate the Shin names are for the Heralds, but probably more accurate than the Vorin names, seeing as the Shin have had the Honorblades for quite some time. 

[Argent Splinter]

They are probably more accurate, I agree. But I'll reserve judgment until we can confirm (it's one of the things I intend to sneakily ask Brandon when he comes to Chicago).

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I think that's wise

Looking at the copper mind, it is believed that Battar is the real name of one of the Heralds - is there a source for this, or did I miss it in the books (highly likely). 

[Argent Splinter]

One of the first Words of Radiance chapters mentions her in passing.

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

Thank you, I just found it in Dalinar's vision.  Most likely her real name for sure! 

[Lightflame Worldbringer]

Taln mentions Vedel by name, so that's definitely her real name.

[Argent Splinter]

Vedel would be... Vedeledev then? 

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I assume so.

This thread makes me think of the various oaths used including the Heralds, I wonder if they have any more significant meaning, or if it is just a world building exercise.

 

By oaths, I mean things like:
 

"Nalan's hand"

"By Vedeledev's golden keys" 

 

Most likely nothing. 

[callumke Prelan]

My apologies for the badly formatted table, this is copy-pasted out of my personal Knights Radiant table.
 
Chan-a-rach is an odd one - there are references in WoR to Chana, Chanaranach and the epigraph above of Chan-a-rach. I've put Chana down as the original name for the time being.

 

EDIT The table turned out horriblly, so here we go.

 

Herald    Vorrin Name    

Jezrien    Jezerezeh

Nale        Nalan

Chana    Chanaranach

Vedel      Vedeledev  

               Pailiah

Ash         Shalash

Battar     Battah

Kalak      Kelek

Talenel   Talenelat

Ishar       Ishi

Edited March 14, 2014 by FireArcadia

[Argent Splinter]

I've thought about that. There has to be some kernel in truth in at least some of them - it's how lore is created - but I would definitely not take them literally. "Nalan's hand" could, for example, refer to the fact that Nalan is the Herald of Justice (and Retribution?), and so followers of Vorinism might start using the phrase to denote a context of law and justice. They wouldn't arrive at "the long arm of the law," like we did on Earth, but at "Nalan's hand" instead. For example.

 

---

EDIT

---

@FireArcadia, I am not sure about a couple of those. Taln introduces himself as Talenel'Elin, but I think that's maybe an early version of his Vorin name - the 'Elin suffix seems to either mean or denote a Herald; Kalak calls him Taln, so that's what I'll stick to for now. Also, Nalan as Nale?

Edited March 14, 2014 by Argent

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

No idea about Pailiah's real name.  Could be Pai  

[Aminar Full Shardbearer]

Lol Nale. Anyone know if Brandon likes DBZ? NALE!(I'm sorry, it had to be said...)

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I've thought about that. There has to be some kernel in truth in at least some of them - it's how lore is created - but I would definitely not take them literally. "Nalan's hand" could, for example, refer to the fact that Nalan is the Herald of Justice (and Retribution?), and so followers of Vorinism might start using the phrase to denote a context of law and justice. They wouldn't arrive at "the long arm of the law," like we did on Earth, but at "Nalan's hand" instead. For example.

That's where I am with it too.  I assume at some point Vedel had a set of keys, or something gold, and history turned into something else.  And Nalan's hand definitely sounds like a colloquialism/idiom similar to Hand of Justice etc.

 

Just thought there might be some worth in accumulating all the Herald references like these throughout the two books.

Taln's Scar is another one.  Not an idiom, obviously, but similar. 

 

It could still just be part of the language/world building. 

[callumke Prelan]

I always thought as Taln as a nickname or abbreviation for Talenel, given that his how he introduces himself. And Nale is mentioned by Szeth as being one of Nin's names "here in the East". I thought that Nin sounded very Shin, (didn't even realise why until I just wrote that, but probably because they rhyme), and perhaps the Shin have their own set of names for the Heralds.

 

EDIT: East, not west

Edited March 14, 2014 by FireArcadia

[cem Arbiter]

My apologies for the badly formatted table, this is copy-pasted out of my personal Knights Radiant table.

 

Chan-a-rach is an odd one - there are references in WoR to Chana, Chanaranach and the epigraph above of Chan-a-rach. I've put Chana down as the original name for the time being.

 

EDIT The table turned out horriblly, so here we go.

 

Herald    Vorrin Name    

Jezrien    Jezerezeh

Nale        Nalan

Chana    Chanaranach

Vedel      Vedeledev  

               Pailiah

Ash         Shalash

Battar     Battah

Kalak      Kelek

Talenel   Talenelat

Ishar       Ishi

Chana is probably just a pet-name for the Vorin name Chanaranach. Navani says Chana twice, and I don't think we've ever seen a Vorin use the real names of the Heralds. OTH, Hoid calls her Chan-a-rach. So however weird the name, I think that's more likely to be the true name.

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I assume Chan-a-rach is a Vorin name or close to it. Hoid uses it when speaking to Kaladin, and Kal doesn't seem to flinch at hearing a weird name for one of the Heralds. Also, I guess Chana/Chanarach/Chanaranach was considered to be fairly speedy, what with the racing and all. 

[callumke Prelan]

Chana is probably just a pet-name for the Vorin name Chanaranach. Navani says Chana twice, and I don't think we've ever seen a Vorin use the real names of the Heralds. OTH, Hoid calls her Chan-a-rach. So however weird the name, I think that's more likely to be the true name.

 

Good point. That would be a great question for Brandon on tour (I would, but he is gonna take ages to come to London).

[cem Arbiter]

I assume Chan-a-rach is a Vorin name or close to it. Hoid uses it when speaking to Kaladin, and Kal doesn't seem to flinch at hearing a weird name for one of the Heralds. Also, I guess Chana/Chanarach/Chanaranach was considered to be fairly speedy, what with the racing and all. 

That doesn't track. All Vorin names of the Heralds are symmetrical (the letter h is kinda like a wildcard; Jezerezeh or Pailiah). There is no reason for Chan-a-rach to break the pattern that the other nine Heralds form. I am pretty confident Chanaranach is the Vorin name.

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

I actually agree with you based on logic, but I also don't know why Kaladin wouldn't react to hearing a strange name for one of the Heralds.  Or, he was in prison and didn't really think about it or care  

[Argent Splinter]

It could be a non-Vorin name that's popular (or at least well known) nonetheless. 

[Ryshadium Silent Gatherer]

Are there any theories on the Vorin insistence on palindromes? I'm relatively new here, so I don't know if that's something that people have discussed, or if it is just assumed to be a religious quirk. 

[ranstang94 Awakened Object]

I actually agree with you based on logic, but I also don't know why Kaladin wouldn't react to hearing a strange name for one of the Heralds.  Or, he was in prison and didn't really think about it or care

 

He kinda reacted to the entire story being weird, seemed to take a lot of strange things in stride because it was Hoid... don't think we can use his reaction as a confirmation that he knew that name.