[OB] Autonomy’s Avatar Is the Third Sibling!

[Confused]

Brandon says the Shattering assigned all existing Investiture to one of the Shards. I believe Roshar, the planet’s land mass, is assigned to Autonomy. “Somebody” raised that land mass from the sea just like Autonomy’s avatar raised Patji. Because I believe the “Spren of Stone” is the third Sibling, I think that Sibling now belongs to Autonomy.

Analysis

I quote the relevant WoBs below. Bracketed numerals refer to that numbered WoB.

Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” [1.] To me, this implies Adonalsium may have created Roshar after the cosmere’s creation. Roshar specifically incorporates Adonalsium’s “touch and design.”

The Eila Stele names the Singer gods “spren, stone, and wind.” Most believe the wind and spren are the Stormfather’s and Nightwatcher’s pre-Shattering predecessors. I agree with posters who think the third Sibling is the Spren of Stone. I think the Spren of Stone is the Rosharan continent’s consciousness. I believe the figure hovering above the blue disk with outstretched arms in Urithiru’s basement is that consciousness, as it raises the continent from Roshar’s oceans (the disk).

The Spren of Stone IMO is the “somebody” who specifically designs and creates Roshar’s land mass according to fractal mathematics principles. [2, 3.] The continent surfaces from Roshar’s oceans after the planet’s creation. (The Horneater Peaks above the crem-line hold slate, a sedimentary rock. [6.]) I suspect Szeth’s “great spren of the mountains,” his people’s aboshi, is another name for (or a subspren of) the Spren of Stone. Kaladin notices Kholinar’s windblades resemble Urithiru’s striations, maybe another manifestation found near every Oathgate city.

Highstorms bury the continent in crem. [4.] Even pre-Shattering crem carries Invested nutrients, supporting native flora and farmers. [9, 10.] Rosharans don’t know, or even ask, where crem comes from. [8.]. “On Roshar…environmental factors ARE magical components.” [7.]

I think crem now comes from Autonomy. It’s the same pattern as Taldain (IMO). Invested water circulates through the atmosphere. On Taldain, solar radiation Invests the oceans, which the natural water cycle distributes. On Roshar, the highstorm distributes crem gathered from Roshar’s oceans. We don’t know the source of crem’s oceanic Investiture – could it come from Roshar’s sun?

And could Dysian Aimians now be of Autonomy? They too are a magic-wielding autonomous consciousness. Their magic broadly resembles Sand Mastery. Both cause remote objects to take a commanded shape. A Dysian does that with his body parts, not microflora. Something to chew on, maybe…

I do think Autonomy will yet be moved to look at Rosharan events. If Bavadin hasn’t already, she/he may soon realize the scope of her Investiture there. I believe we’ve been “foreshadowed.”

Relevant WoBs

1. Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” Source.

2. Roshar “is modeled after the Julia Set. Which is meant to indicate that Roshar was designed specifically…[and not] through crem buildup.” Source.

3. “The whole idea that this is a fractal-- The whole point of that is, somebody built this. Somebody built this using mathematics that you know. They said ‘Oh. Boom. Bing!’ and grew themselves a continent.” Source.

4. “The geography on Roshar was developed as a natural outgrowth of the highstorm…. I had to find a mechanism by which stone was deposited by rain, because I felt that the constant weathering over that long of a time would leave no continents…. They don't have plate tectonics. The continent actually moves as it gets weathered on the east and gets pushed that direction over millennia of time.” Source.

5. Roshar’s continent is not composed solely of crem. Source.

6. “Horneater peaks you're probably going to get into some more slate, some more dark grays and things like this, weathered stone that doesn't have the crem buildup because the peaks are gonna pop up above where the crem is building up, so.” Source.

7. “On Roshar, the environment and magic are so intertwined, environmental factors ARE magical components.” Source.

8. Where crem comes from is “one of the greater mysteries. Far in the future, scientists on Roshar will start asking that same question.” Source. Brandon RAFOs whether the Everstorm creates crem. Source.

9. “Even pre-Shattering [stormwater] would get a metallic taste, that's the crem. So. That is an indication of Investiture and things. But it was there – It was in place first, before.” Source.

10. “[Both natural flora and farmers] have to get all of [their] minerals and things basically have to come from the crem.” Source.

11. Brandon says crem is “more like Shard poop” than spren poop, though it’s “not really poop.” Sources One and Two. He also laughs off the question whether Lift’s “metabolic waste” holds crem but doesn’t specifically RAFO it. Source.

[CalaCrisp88]

I don't dislike this theory, but it seems unlikely simply because SA is supposed to be fairly self-contained, and I don't think he'd introduce a new shard to the series like that.

[RShara]

I'm just going to reiterate my response for basically introducing any other Shard at this point:  Thematically, I think it would be a bad idea, and I don't think Brandon is interested in doing that.

[Agent34]

If crem is somehow of Autonomy it'd show signs of mixing or co-opting.

Quote

Lindel (paraphrased)

Crem and the Purelake on Roshar. Do they have any connection to Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Both existed on the planet before Cultivation arrived.

Lindel (paraphrased)

But both are influenced by her now?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, she influences both.

source

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Agent34

[Zelly]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

The Eila Stele names the Singer gods “spren, stone, and wind.”

I just assumed that this referenced that Cultivation had some association with stone, similar to how Honor had a connection to the winds.

While stone and crystal aren't necessarily the same thing, there's a lot of crystal imagery associated with Wyndle's appearance and his talk of gardening crystal objects.

 

I don't think Autonomy's involved, but I think the idea of the crem spren and/or land building spren is a very interesting one.

[Khyrindor]

A very interesting theory. I like the thought of some of the created stuff left over from Adonalsium being assigned to other Shards, and I think if Brandon were to go that route with the Sibling, it wouldn't be too "off" from the story, like we'd need to know who Autonomy is by then. Like in Elantris, we know Odium splintered D&D but it's not super important to the plot.

That said...I think there's a bit of a hole. If it is some of Autonomy's Investiture left over from long ago, she'd have to actually do something to grow it into an avatar. I don't think we should be looking at connections between it and White Sand's magical elements, as her Avatar on Patji is widely different from anything on Taldain. I suspect those differences in magical elements aren't something a Shard (or Avatar) would have much control over; they likely have more to do with planetary focus. 

Like others said, the crem and that stuff is more obviously hijacked by Cultivation. The Windblades and Urithiru, maybe I could be persuaded by that. I don't like the theory that the Third Sibling is of Odium, so something like this could be interesting.

[Elenion]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

The Horneater Peaks above the crem-line hold slate, a sedimentary rock.

Slate is actually a low-grade metamorphic rock (source); you might be thinking of shale when you say sedimentary. However, I think this supports your theory of the continent being made after the world more than a sedimentary rock would. A sedimentary mountain would mean one of two things: 1) high rates of sediment deposition with low erosion, which is the opposite of what happens in most mountain ranges, or 2) the mountain was created that way and is now slowly shrinking due to erosion. A metamorphic rock would imply tectonic activity in the continent's geologic past. So in short, a metamorphic mountain range leaves room for an after-creating land-building event (while not necessarily providing evidence for that), while a sedimentary mountain range would imply that they were created like that.

[Leyrann]

8 hours ago, RShara said:

I'm just going to reiterate my response for basically introducing any other Shard at this point:  Thematically, I think it would be a bad idea, and I don't think Brandon is interested in doing that.

I disagree. I'm not necissarily convinced about this theory, but I do think another Shard will get involved in Stormlight Archive at some point (maybe the second half), as I argued yesterday in another thread:

17 hours ago, Leyrann said:

We're three books in, and we supposedly know most of the stuff that's happening already. There's some question marks about the Recreance, the war's only just begun, etc, but we know there's three Shards, and we have reason to assume Dalinar is on the path to taking up Honor (though I doubt anyone would be surprised if Brandon subverted that in one way or another). Cosmerically, it looks like there's no big surprises coming anymore. And I just don't believe that. So I think that a fourth Shard will, at some point, get involved.

[RShara]

4 hours ago, Leyrann said:

I disagree. I'm not necissarily convinced about this theory, but I do think another Shard will get involved in Stormlight Archive at some point (maybe the second half), as I argued yesterday in another thread:

Oh I'm sure there will be plenty of surprises still to come.  I just think a 4th Shard would be a bad idea.

[Confused]

Autonomy’s Rosharan Role

19 hours ago, RShara said:

I'm just going to reiterate my response for basically introducing any other Shard at this point:  Thematically, I think it would be a bad idea, and I don't think Brandon is interested in doing that.

Brandon’s already introduced other Shards to Roshar: Harmony has sent kandra there. The question is the extent of other Shards’ involvement. Brandon tells us Autonomy has “assigned Investiture” on Roshar. I believe at some point in some way at some level Autonomy will inevitably get involved. I think Brandon foreshadows this:

Quote

Let's say you were Autonomy, and you have – through expanding and exploring your understanding – found a gathering of investiture that has always been there, you always knew about, but still didn't actually recognize until the moment you considered and explored it. (Because even though your power is infinite, accessing and using that infinity is beyond your reach.) Were you "invested" there? No, no more than you're invested on Roshar, where parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of matter and existence.) But suddenly, you have a chance to tweak, influence, and do things that were always possible, but which you never could do because you knew, but didn't know, at the same time.

Source (emphasis added).

Based on Patji, Taldain, and this WoB (IMO, among the all-time best), I conclude the third Sibling is now “of Autonomy.” Autonomy never Invests Roshar. The Roshar land mass pre-exists the Shattering. IMO, Autonomy doesn’t even know of her Rosharan Investiture. The plot doesn’t require us to know or care right now either. I think the OP’s cited WoBs amply support the Spren of Stone as the third Sibling regardless of any Autonomy Connection.

But when Autonomy does discover her Rosharan Investiture, I believe she will “tweak, influence, and do things” there. They may not be big things or good things. A Shard whose Vessel is a dragon (IMO) and who values “autonomy” may not be kind to humans who bond her avatar.

@RShara, apart from Brandon’s desire to separate series, what “thematically” makes outside Shard involvement a “bad idea”? Is this the only post you discuss this? I don’t disagree with your thought – to me, it’s a question of degree. I too would hate to see a fourth Shard show up in a big way. But I think you discount “Investiture assignment” if you think Cusicesh must be of a resident Shard.

Crem

@Agent34, you’re right. Crem itself is probably some oceanic micro-lifeform that’s “of Cultivation.” I analogize crem to Taldain’s microflora, which post-Shattering may also be assigned to Cultivation. Any Investiture will charge Taldain’s microflora without turning it red. Crem seems the same. I also believe co-option/corruption affects innate Investiture, not kinetic Investiture that bakes into a lifeform.

Slate 

Ouch! Never rely on a 50-year-old memory from 9^th grade Earth Science…The problem is Roshar doesn’t have plate tectonics. As the Forums’ resident geologist, @Elenion, what do you think could generate the heat and pressure on Roshar to metamorphose rock? (Does Roshar also have non-Soulcast marble?)

Cultivation as “Stone”

17 hours ago, Zellyia said:

I just assumed that this referenced that Cultivation had some association with stone, similar to how Honor had a connection to the winds.

Odium says Cultivation cares only about “transformation,” which I believe is how Cultivation “expresses” her “nature” (in Jofwu’s terms). Khriss identifies spren as “transformative cognitive entities.” Hesina says spren are the “soul of change.” To me, these statements all identify transformation/change with both Cultivation and spren. I think the Shattering assigned “wind” to Honor (the Stormfather), “spren” to Cultivation (the Nightwatcher, who also transforms), and “stone” to the Spren of Stone.

Again, saying the Spren of Stone is “of Autonomy” doesn’t mean any historic or ongoing role for Autonomy. It’s just Autonomy’s Rosharan assigned Investiture. As someone else recently theorized, Shards probably have assigned Investiture on almost every planet. They may not be able to access or use it for one reason or another.

[RShara]

We only know that a kandra is on Roshar because Brandon said so outside of the books.  In the books, we haven't seen anything that really even hints at the kandra.

A fourth Shard would have needed to be foreshadowed, introduced, explained, and a motivation, plot and conclusion given to it.  I don't think we've seen any of these things so far, and since SA is two 5-book arcs, doing all of this in book 4 of 5 would, at least to me, feel horribly rushed and possibly deus ex machina.  Waiting to figure out the Sibling and/or Urithiru until book 6 would be a very odd delay.

Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have been clearly important since book 1, having Shard 4 pop up in Book 4+ doesn't feel like a sound thematic decision to me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.  YMMV.

[Elenion]

7 hours ago, Confused said:

Ouch! Never rely on a 50-year-old memory from 9^th grade Earth Science…The problem is Roshar doesn’t have plate tectonics. As the Forums’ resident geologist, @Elenion, what do you think could generate the heat and pressure on Roshar to metamorphose rock? (Does Roshar also have non-Soulcast marble?)

I'm not a real geologist; I'm just in a university class right now that is covering this sort of thing and I thought it might help.

Roshar doesn't have plate tectonics? Interesting--I haven't seen that WoB, but I'll do this analysis like that is the case.

Looking through my notes, there are 4 primary ways to make rock more metamorphic: temperature, pressure, directed stress, and fluids. One thing that is in our favor is that slate is low-grade, the "least-metamorphic" transformation of shale. Another thing to keep in mind is that the formation of shale will require both heat and pressure; let's take a look at the 4 causes in turn:

1. Temperature: Most of the time this is caused by the rock being closer to the heat at the center of the planet. If Roshar doesn't have plate tectonics, the rock could not feasibly move from a lower part of the crust to a higher part of the crust without miles of crust being eroded away, so this method is out.

2. Pressure: This is pressure in all directions, related to rock depth. The same problem as temperature applies here: there's no feasible way for a rock to move from deep underground to the surface without plate tectonics.

The above two are the most common culprits for metamorphism, but they're both not feasible in this situation. Luckily, we have two more.

3. Directed stress: Directed stress can be caused by plate collisions, but it can also be caused by the weight of a formation such as a mountain on top of it. Because this is not pressure in all directions, it can cause rocks to deform and "ooze" given enough heat. This can occur at or near the surface if conditions are right (on Earth, for example, at the site of a plate collision or subduction), so it's a possible culprit for metamorphism, given some heat.

4. Fluids: This is where I think we might catch a break. Metamorphism can happen when fluids such as water or magma, get into cracks in the rock. Water is most likely out, because on Earth we usually only see water playing a role in metamorphism at subduction boundaries. However, magma can infiltrate rocks from below, if conditions are right. One way of getting magma into the crust without plate tectonics would be at a hot spot--the same kind of thing that we see in Hawaii. Hawaii is located far from any plate boundary, but magma can reach the surface because the crust is thin. If a hot spot was located under the Horneater Peaks, it would allow magma to well up below the mountains and heat mudstone, changing it.

If my theory is correct, our timeline for the formation of the peaks would be this:

1. Existing formation comprised of sedimentary rocks such as mudstones (accumulated crem might count for this, depending on its properties)
2. Hot spot under the Horneater Peaks area allows for partial melting of rock, forming magma
3. Magma rises towards the surface, but is unable to reach the top of the formation
4. Mudstones around the cooling magma are heated by the heat dissipated
5. The weight of crem or sedimentary rock above the cooling magma applies directed stress
6. Mudstone surrounding the magma changes into slate
7. Weathering due to wind or Highstorm exposes the slate, which is much harder than the parent rocks
8. The top of the Horneater peaks is now composed of the slate; the softer rocks above have been lost

But maybe we're looking too far into this. Occam's razor suggests that Sanderson is not a geologist, so maybe he just looked up the composition of some mountains nowadays and used that. Or maybe Roshar was geologically active in the past, during its formation, and we can just go to the standard explanation that the slate formation was formed underground and then uplifted.

 

Edit: Marble would be easier than slate, because it apparently can form from contact metamorphism (source). Limestone, the parent rock, is common anywhere water can be found, and contact metamorphism could occur any time that limestone is heated by contact with magma, no extra pressure required.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Elenion

[Leyrann]

What if Roshar was just created with metamorphic rock? I mean, we don't know when Roshar was created but considering the unstable orbits of the moons, the very recognizable Julia Set despite constant weathering and buliding up from storms, floods and crem, it cannot be that much older than the Shattering. Thousands of years, possible, but likely not millions of years. But we do know Roshar was created by Adonalsium, so he could've just put the metamorphic rock in there, just like Sazed added oil deposits and the like for Scadrial (he did, right? I don't have that from WoB or anything, but I remember someone mentioning that).

[Calderis]

@Elenion here's the WoB on lack of plate tectonics. And for @Leyrann it's all crem... Which is super weird. 

Quote

Questioner

Does Roshar have plate tectonics?

Brandon Sanderson

Roshar does not have plate tectonics, good question.

Questioner

Well when I met you in Orem, I was asking about frequencies. And you said it was more the shape of the plate-- The frequency. We've got no plate tectonics, we've got people who like to sing.

Brandon Sanderson

Good question. Now the weird thing that we would have is with the crem, we have to do some weird geology gymnastics, because Roshar is moving...

Roshar, the continent of Roshar, it's moving, right? As it gets weathered and things like this. Making Roshar actually work requires some really interesting scientific gymnastics. But one of them is I just didn't think plate tectonics, or even volcanoes and things, is just not something that is going to work on Roshar the way that I built it. So I just stayed away from all of that.  It's a pangaea.

Questioners

*several people talk over each other*

Brandon Sanderson

 It's a pangaea built up of crem.

Rubix

Over a long time--

Brandon Sanderson

Well no, because it was created at first.

Bystander

And then crem was on top of it?

Brandon Sanderson

...The whole idea that this is a fractal-- The whole point of that is, somebody built this. Somebody built this using mathematics that you know. They said "Oh. Boom. Bing!" and grew themselves a continent.

source

 

[The One Who Connects]

8 hours ago, Leyrann said:

just like Sazed added oil deposits and the like for Scadrial (he did, right? I don't have that from WoB or anything, but I remember someone mentioning that).

Theory. MB Spoilers, obviously.

Spoiler

BartholomeusDiaz
I'm reading the preview chapter of Shadows of Self and I'm really curious. Where does the gasoline for the cars in the Wax and Wayne books come? If Harmony remade the world, did he make crude oil too? Does that then mean he can see that far into the future?

Brandon Sanderson
There are clues about this in the upcoming text itself.

---

Cadmium (paraphrased)
You're in Houston, questions of Oil & Gas and energy sources will be naturally be bandied about.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Naturally.

Cadmium (paraphrased)
Is the gasoline on Scadrial a fossil fuel or biodiesel?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Oh. Hmm. Well It's fossil fue... No. What they're using now is mostly biodiesel, I think. It's not something we really talked out.

Cadmium (paraphrased)
Ok, we had a whole thread on 17th Shard and even discussed how scientifically fossil fuels could have been put into place during the Catacendre.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Well, fossil fuels are possible, and I don't want to seem like I'm clearly giving credence to those that believe in a Young Earth, but Scadrial is a relatively young planet. Relatively.

Cadmium (paraphrased)
Young Earth doesn't bother me, though I know I'm not the majority. Where on Scadrial is it being produced? No mention of refineries in Elendel or the Roughs.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
Where on Scadrial... Well it's... I'm going to have to RAFO that for now. It starts to touch on questions of the future as they will need more fuels for travel and they'll need to look for different sources.

[Zelly]

This feels like a stretch, but possible connection with the Worldsingers? Not as the cultural storytellers Sigzil knows them, but in the distant past maybe the continent was sung into shape. Ancient singers, literally shaping mountain ranges and creating geostorms.

[The One Who Connects]

4 minutes ago, Zellyia said:

in the distant past maybe the continent was sung into shape.

Nope. Big A is responsible for that one.

Quote

mistbornAuthor 53 points 1 year ago 

I was searching for something that at once felt organic, but would hint at a pattern. (Much like cymatic patterns, as referenced in the first book.) Fractals and mathematical functions became my go-to place to hunt, as I like the blend of structure and spontaneity they can sometimes exhibit. The slice of the Julia Set was the one that stuck with me as feeling perfect for Roshar. As the continent was specifically grown by Adonalsium, you now know the seed that was used in-world to create it.

The fact that it looked like a swirling cloud is part of this all--but also part of the connection between natural patterns and the underlying math, which is a primary theme of the Stormlight books. So yes, it SHOULD look like a storm--but for deeper reasons than you might assume.

[Confused]

Thank you, @The One Who Connects! I remember reading that WoB and couldn't find it again. Brandon confirms Adonalsium is the "somebody" who creates the continent. IIRC, that WoB is the only time Brandon names him. To me, this supports the Spren of Stone as the continent's consciousness. It shows the Spren of Stone equates to the Adonalsium-created "spren" and "wind."

For @Calderis' attention:

Spoiler

Since you don't communicate by PM, I'll follow up here on my unanswered question in my last post on the “pathways to power” thread:

On 3/27/2018 at 9:05 PM, Confused said:

Some disagreements remain, like how Sand Mastery works thermodynamically. But if you agree “Spiritual energy” provides the same capacities to every Shard, regardless of how a Shard manifests that energy, then we can solve anything. The uniformity of Spiritual energy is my theory’s core. Everything else is branches and twigs.

Well, do you think all “Spiritual energy” (the Spiritual Realm’s “powers of creation”) is the same? You previously said “largely” the same, and I’m unsure what you exclude. You can post your answer on that thread. Thanks.

Also, I thought you might enjoy my OB limericks on your thread. I wish you’d stop bringing them up. Limericks are like candy after serious theory-crafting: unhealthy and distracting…

Back to the topic at hand:

16 hours ago, Calderis said:

And for @Leyrann it's all crem... Which is super weird. 

Here are some WoBs from the OP that say crem builds up atop underlying rock:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Has anyone figured out what the secret in the map was, in Words of Radiance?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah, they have. That it's modeled after the Julia Set. Which is meant to indicate that Roshar was designed specifically.

AndrewStirlingMacDonald (paraphrased)

Did it happen through crem buildup?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No.

Source.

FWIW, I half-joked on that Julia Set thread that the Rosharan continent was a giant greatshell:

On 3/18/2014 at 5:09 PM, Confused said:

I'm going to propose something preposterous that I posted on another thread about the Dawnshards (which are, in all likelihood, splinters of Adonalsium). Rather than the Rosharian super-continent being a dragon, I suggest it is a giant greatshell (just like the Reshi Islands are greatshells).

WoB is that one of the Dawnshards is unique. Not being an astronomer, it seems odd to me that a planet should have so relatively little land mass. And if the continent were alive, it would explain why the continent seems to have moved in circles, as if the continent were slowly turning around....

We know a lot more about the continent than we did four years ago. It would be ironic if the continent is alive … Does it slouch towards the Origin to be born? Here’s another WoB:

Quote

Questioner

This whole talk of both Roshar and the highstorms, I'm glad that you said they predate the Shattering. There are some people on 17th Shard, myself included, that firmly believe the entire continent is crem that's accumulated, one highstorm at a time.

Brandon Sanderson

Good. Let me actually squish that one a little bit because there are mineral deposits that have been mentioned that you have to mine. And crem-- There is actual ferrous iron that you can smelt on Roshar, you have to know how to get to it and things like that, and there are actual gemstone mines and things like that. Much harder to get to and Soulcasting is a stopgap that has helped with this a lot, but there are actual deposits and things like that.

Source (bold added).

And another:

Quote

“Horneater peaks you're probably going to get into some more slate, some more dark grays and things like this, weathered stone that doesn't have the crem buildup because the peaks are gonna pop up above where the crem is building up, so.

So that's where you're going to get some real, untainted rock which otherwise on Roshar you've got to burrow to get.”

Source.

The WoB you cite supports the OP’s main point. “Somebody” – Adonalsium – used fractal mathematics principles and “grew themselves a continent.” Like the Patji Pantheon also grown from the ocean floor, I believe the Rosharan continent and the Spren of Stone are now associated with Autonomy – the Spren is Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture.”

On 4/2/2018 at 2:40 PM, RShara said:

We only know that a kandra is on Roshar because Brandon said so outside of the books.  In the books, we haven't seen anything that really even hints at the kandra.

You’re right, but I think we have seen “hints at the kandra,” even if they may be red herrings. Rial is a Dalinar bodyguard. His name is an anagram for “liar.” IIRC, Rial first appears in OB. He likes to drink, acts too familiar with Dalinar, and fiddles with his hat. As a guess, I think Rial is MeLaan adopting Wayne’s mannerisms.

FWIW, Sebarial also seems an imposter. His name is an anagram for “base liar.” He too keeps close to Dalinar. If not a kandra, maybe he’s Dysian? Something else?

On 4/2/2018 at 2:40 PM, RShara said:

A fourth Shard would have needed to be foreshadowed, introduced, explained, and a motivation, plot and conclusion given to it.  I don't think we've seen any of these things so far, and since SA is two 5-book arcs, doing all of this in book 4 of 5 would, at least to me, feel horribly rushed and possibly deus ex machina.  Waiting to figure out the Sibling and/or Urithiru until book 6 would be a very odd delay.

Honor, Cultivation, and Odium have been clearly important since book 1, having Shard 4 pop up in Book 4+ doesn't feel like a sound thematic decision to me.

You’re right again, but I don’t suggest when other Shards appear. They may not show up much before SLA’s ending, to segue into the next series. I think the OB Letters already foreshadow other Shards’ roles in the saga.

Regardless, IMO the identity of the Sibling and its relationship to Urithiru is independent of the Sibling’s relationship with Autonomy. We don’t need to know the Sibling is Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture” for the plot to work.

@Elenion, thank you for the information and an upvote for the effort! I think Brandon chooses a different metamorphic mechanic – magic. Adonalsium built the continent and exerted magical pressure on the rocks. Easy work for a god…

Edited April 3, 2018 by Confused

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Confused said:

You’re right, but I think we have seen “hints at the kandra,” even if they may be red herrings. Rial is a Dalinar bodyguard. His name is an anagram for “liar.” IIRC, Rial first appears in OB. He likes to drink, acts too familiar with Dalinar, and fiddles with his hat. As a guess, I think Rial is MeLaan adopting Wayne’s mannerisms.

MB Era 2 takes place after SA 5, though.

[Confused]

Really? That's a bummer. Maybe MeLaan knew Wayne before she realized she knew him?

[RShara]

1 minute ago, Confused said:

Really? That's a bummer. Maybe MeLaan knew Wayne before she realized she knew him?

Yeah.  MB Era 2 is slotted to take place either in the gap between the arcs, or just after them.

Umm I'm going to go with a No on that

 

[Elenion]

9 minutes ago, Confused said:

@Elenion, thank you for the information and an upvote for the effort! I think Brandon chooses a different metamorphic mechanic – magic. Adonalsium built the continent and exerted magical pressure on the rocks. Easy work for a god…

Yeah, let's go with that.  Nobody wants to have a massive explanation of why the mountains are made out of slate in the middle of their reading. (Possible exception for Tolkien readers.)

[Calderis]

@Confused yes, there is rock, and it didn't form through crem build-up... But for the continent to be able to drift due to crembuildup/wear it makes sense to me that the rock that was created is the same type of rock that crem hardens into.

And crem is influenced by Cultivation now. 

And if you wish to PM me, I activated them shortly after I joined discord. Feel free. 

[Yata]

Dysian can't fake out to be' humans without covering most of their body. And also in that case the exposed parts can't resamble easily a clean Humans probably under a good ispection.

So I Will exclude any "Hidden Sleepless" in full sight.

[Spoolofwhool]

10 hours ago, Yata said:

Dysian can't fake out to be' humans without covering most of their body. And also in that case the exposed parts can't resamble easily a clean Humans probably under a good ispection.

So I Will exclude any "Hidden Sleepless" in full sight.

The Sleepless in the Kaza interlude didn't need to cover herself to pass as human. It seems the one in Edgedancer isn't a strong rule on the matter.