Good twinborn combos?

[Calderis]

10 hours ago, MountainKing said:

If you stored health before becoming a savant then the goldmind might fix your spiritweb like it would if your spiritweb was damaged due to hemalurgy.

Healing can't restore you to a younger age, so I don't think it would work that way. Gold healing is mechanically no different than Stormlight, other than the ability to control the rate. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Calderis

[MountainKing]

Your not changing age, you're fixing your broken spiritweb, that was damaged by to much use of allomancy.

[Calderis]

44 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Your not changing age, you're fixing your broken spiritweb, that was damaged by to much use of allomancy.

You're missing the point. The spit web is not broken, it is changed in such a way that it believes nothing is wrong. 

SA spoilers. 

Spoiler

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant.

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

So they are protected from being turned into--

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarificaiton* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight].

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

Or is that counteracted by the healing as well?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

You are not losing body parts to smoke.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, you are not using body parts to smoke. 

Questioner 1 [PENDING REVIEW]

What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some--

Questioner 2 [PENDING REVIEW]

Depending on how often they Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person. 

source

In order to heal to how you were prior to changing it would be no different than healing to a younger age. Age is written into your spiritweb, and as such you heal to your correct age.

Spoilered for length (relevant section is the second half) 

Quote

Iceblade44

So White Sand [than Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Kriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flipin immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

There is some time-dialation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Faera

Implying that some are actually immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on which definition of immortal you mean.

Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)

Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)

Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)

Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)

Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The sleepless.)

Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)

Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of cognitive shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity.

Shagomir

Heals from wounds, but still ages.

Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone compounding Gold?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you are correct.

Shagomir

As a Bloodmaker ages what keeps them from healing the damage and carrying on as a very old, but very healthy person? Do they come to a point where they can't store enough health to stave off the aches, pains, diseases, and other things that come with old age?

This makes sense for traditional Feruchemy as it is end-neutral, so storing health becomes a zero sum game - eventually, you're going to get sick and you're not going to be able to overcome it with your natural healing ability no matter how much you manipulate it with a goldmind.

...Unless you've got a supply of Identity-less goldminds lying around. Would a Bloodmaker with a sufficient source of identity-less goldminds (or the ability to compound, thus bypassing the end-neutral part of Feruchemy) eventually just die from being too old?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, yes. They can heal their body to match their spiritual ideal, but some things (like some genetic diseases, and age-related illnesses) are seen as part of the ideal. Depends on several factors.

source

A savant is no different. Healing comes from the Spiritual Aspect. If the spiritual aspect I changed, then something else needs to direct the healing to act.

The Savants Spiritual aspect tells the healing that the changes are how things should be, so they aren't healed. When the metalmind was filled doesn't change that. 

[kevinivek2]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Unfortunately that wouldn't work. If you mean damage like Spook suffered... Savantism alters the soul, so healing doesn't fix it. That "damage" is your new normal. 

damnation. Haven‘t thought about this. But I guess I‘ll still stay with it. I love the powers tin give you.

[kevinivek2]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)

Does anyone know who this could be?

 

 

[Guest Breaker]

Anyone of the fifth heightening. 

[Quickbronze]

Rule One: Nothing beats compounding. Nothing at all. 

I would say steel > gold in a combative sense, for one simple reason; I compounder's main weakness is their reliance on metal. Gold compounders have the obvious weakness of being dragged down and having their metalminds stripped, in which case they will die. However, as a steel compounder, you can escape anyone who tries to employ this tactic against you, unless they are also a steel compounder. If your opponents try to dog-pile you and take your metalminds, you can just beat them to death until there's a wall of dead bodies around you. If fighting a gold compounder, you could just frisk them for metalminds, tear them all off, and kill the person before they could even move. One other interesting possibility for metalminds that are practically impossible to strip off are Brass compounders. They could simply heat their entire body to the point that touching them would cause third-degree burns. This heat will also seep through the metalminds themselves. However, Brass compounders can still be killed relatively easily, with bullets or some such. So in a combat sense, I'd pick steel compounding every time. 

In everyday life, most types of compounding are pretty helpful. Bronze lets you increase your work output a ton, brass ensures you never need to bother with blankets again(or oven mitts!), cadmium lets you become the ultimate sailor, bendalloy makes you incapable of exhaustion(with the additional benefit of improving your figure), pewter lets you perform insane amounts of physical labor, electrum ensures you'll never have to hire a psychiatrist-- honestly I could go on all day. 

I will say that if I had my pick for everyday use, I'd go zinc for certain. Near-infinite stores of intellectual capability are useful in any situation.

[Calderis]

I agree with your post for the most part. 

10 minutes ago, Quickbronze said:

If fighting a gold compounder, you could just frisk them for metalminds, tear them all off, and kill the person before they could even move.

The issue with gold compounders that makes this untrue is their ability to internalize metalminds. You could strip them and remove all metal, and they could still have metal hidden inside themselves and have healed the wounds. The only way to be sure with a gold compounder I total evisceration. 

[Quickbronze]

That's true 

If they do have internal metalminds, the question is whether you can find it faster than they can heal. If they can heal fast enough, you won't be able to get through enough of their body mass to find it, and you end up in a deadlock what only ends once one of you runs out of metal.

[Guest Breaker]

I'd say Steel, Gold, Zinc, and Nicrosil are the top tier, given our current understanding of metals. Gold is nigh-immortality, Steel is incredible superspeed. They're hard to match. Nicrosil might be a free ticket to Fullborn, though, and Zinc has numerous, near-infinite non-combat uses to make up for the lack of incredible brokenness found in the other three. 

Also, getting around the age problem with Gold Compounding shouldn't be too enormous; if you have enough money to supply yourself with the necessary gold, you probably have the resources to get to Nalthis and start collecting Breaths to cheat aging. Then you're the next Lord Ruler, no atium required to survive a millennium. 

There are twinborn non-compounder combos that are better than compounders, but in general compounding is OP.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Breaker

[Eldergod3]

Could a Tin Savant like Spook use Feruchemical Tin to bring his senses down to normal when they are inconvenient? 

[Guest Breaker]

Likely so, yes. But it’s unclear, since his senses seem dead to him when he stops burning tin, and those same senses basically made of investiture when he’s burning tin. What is stored might be somewhat different from normal senses, or might be harder to store.

[Kukailimoku]

The wiki says that if you become a bendalloy savant, you could chain the bendalloy bubble to yourself, and if that’s the case, I would want to be A-bendalloy and F-steel, because you could arguably go faster than a steel compounder

[Truthless of Shinovar]

A-iron F-gold; that way, you can Pull metal through you and be fine!

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

A-iron F-gold; that way, you can Pull metal through you and be fine!

Until you run out of stored health.

[cometaryorbit]

For things that would be useful in my actual life, F-zinc/A-tin. (Zinc - Store to speed through boring events, tap for super-thinking. Tin - better senses would help somewhat with a lot of things, though it's not flashy.)

Since I don't get into fights, and 6 of the allomantic metals rely on interacting with other Allomancy, the choices for useful ones are actually pretty limited...

For just incredible power, either double gold or double steel.

Hmmm... random thought... I wonder if brass compounding would let you be Obliteration from the Reckoners series... Or even regular brass - I wonder what limits the heat storage rate? Could a Brass Ferring jump into a volcano and be OK as long as they were storing? Maybe it's limited by the melting point of brass?

[Elsecaller_17.5]

For Scadrial an ironfist a-pewter f-iron

for earth mastermind double zinc for unlimited speed of thought plus rioting as a bonus

[dantlee]

On 4/6/2018 at 6:24 AM, kevinivek2 said:

Does anyone know who this could be?

 

 

My first thought was the Returned. As long as they have their weekly supply of breath, they don't age and can theoretically live forever (like Vasher), but we've seen them get killed from a simple knife to the throat (RIP blushweaver). They don't seem to be able to heal easily from conventional wounds, either. 

[Edgedancer_of_spirits]

A-electrum and F-zinc gets you an epic anti-atium fighter 

[Rydler]

I've been thinking about it recently and A-Pewter and F-Steel would be really good, especially if you're a lighter weight person. 

Since Pewter made Vin more agile as well as stronger, mixing that with the ability to move super fast would make combat easy. You can take heavy hits that should drop normal people, and deliver super strong hits almost too fast to react to. 

Still working on a name for this combo

[Elsecaller_17.5]

8 hours ago, Rydler said:

I've been thinking about it recently and A-Pewter and F-Steel would be really good, especially if you're a lighter weight person. 

Since Pewter made Vin more agile as well as stronger, mixing that with the ability to move super fast would make combat easy. You can take heavy hits that should drop normal people, and deliver super strong hits almost too fast to react to. 

Still working on a name for this combo

Striker

[Rydler]

4 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

Striker

I love it. 

[Tglassy]

I don’t know if there’s a source, but I feel like Brandon said if a Pewter compounder stored the excess strength while burning Pewter, then when he taps the strength in the pewtermind, he would not get bigger, because Alomantic Pewter doesn’t get bigger, only stronger. If you did it this way, then began compounding based on the stored Alomantically enhanced strength, then you could have near infinite strength without worry of your muscles getting bigger.  You could have a second Pewtermind with you that you compounded the normal way, which you continuously tap (since it is near infinite as well) and always have the perfect physique. 

 

Personally, Pewter is just too good to pass up, and it pairs well with a lot of options.

 

Pewter is cheaper than gold, so you could keep a single gold ring fill it every time you burn Pewter, and never have to consume it like a Bloodmaker. It isn’t going to be infinite, but you don’t get the downside of storing health, since you’d only need to store the excess healing you get when burning pewter. You only use the healing when you need to, so it just keeps storing. Wayne was able to survive some amazing things just by spending 2 weeks storing health.

 

Same with Steel. No need to slow yourself down. Just burn pewter all day, storing all the extra speed until you need it. It’s no compounding speedster, but a Thug with enhanced speed whenever he needs it?  Powerful. 

 

Of course, compounding Pewter is amazing, because of the above justification for not growing larger. Not can you have enhanced speed, strength, endurance and healing anytime you want, but you have literally infinite strength whenever you need it. You are as strong as the situation requires, and can have the perfect physique at all times. 

[Halyo_Alex]

18 hours ago, Tglassy said:

I don’t know if there’s a source, but I feel like Brandon said if a Pewter compounder stored the excess strength while burning Pewter, then when he taps the strength in the pewtermind, he would not get bigger, because Alomantic Pewter doesn’t get bigger, only stronger. If you did it this way, then began compounding based on the stored Alomantically enhanced strength, then you could have near infinite strength without worry of your muscles getting bigger.  You could have a second Pewtermind with you that you compounded the normal way, which you continuously tap (since it is near infinite as well) and always have the perfect physique. 

 

Personally, Pewter is just too good to pass up, and it pairs well with a lot of options.

 

Pewter is cheaper than gold, so you could keep a single gold ring fill it every time you burn Pewter, and never have to consume it like a Bloodmaker. It isn’t going to be infinite, but you don’t get the downside of storing health, since you’d only need to store the excess healing you get when burning pewter. You only use the healing when you need to, so it just keeps storing. Wayne was able to survive some amazing things just by spending 2 weeks storing health.

 

Same with Steel. No need to slow yourself down. Just burn pewter all day, storing all the extra speed until you need it. It’s no compounding speedster, but a Thug with enhanced speed whenever he needs it?  Powerful. 

 

Of course, compounding Pewter is amazing, because of the above justification for not growing larger. Not can you have enhanced speed, strength, endurance and healing anytime you want, but you have literally infinite strength whenever you need it. You are as strong as the situation requires, and can have the perfect physique at all times. 

From what it sounds like, a Pewter Compounder would be much like Duralumin+Pewter Allomancy, but without the obvious restriction of needing a second allomantic metal instead. Possibly more awesome, as it wouldn't be an immediate click of All of Your Pewter Is Gone Now, but still a controllable burn of Pewter (albeit charged with pewter allomancy's effects via feruchemy).

[Quantus]

Im still a huge fan of the Double Tin, because I think two slightly different Sensory increases would, I think, do a lot to mitigate the downsides.  A-Tin grants sensory increase in all 5 normal senses, including low-light vision, but it's all or nothing and easy to fall to savantism.  However, you could flair A-tin while filling 4 of 5 of your Tin-Minds and only ever have to worry about over-exposure to the sense you are actually looking for.  Meanwhile Compounding means you never have to worry about being blind&deaf, etc while filling your Tin-Minds.  

 

As a Bonus:  The Tin Twinborn Worldhopper goes to Nalthis, borrows a large supply of Breath for a single Day, and fills a Metalmind with Life-Sense.  There-after, via compounding, the Twinborn has an unlimited supply of that Sense, long after they give the Breaths back.