zandi

Theory: Last Chapter Stormlight Archive (Mistborn Spoilers)

47 posts in this topic

 

 

Q: The ending of mistborn was hidden in the first chapter epigraphs. Is there something similar to that in The Way of Kings

A: There are but they are hidden in different places. The last chapter of the stormlight archive is somewhere in these two books.

From the Houston signing thread.

 

This got me thinking...

 

If I'm at all in any way right - and you don't want to think about how it all ends. DON'T READ FURTHER!

Of course - I'm probably not right though!

 

Theory: I propose this last chapter mentioned in the WoB quote above is (at least partially) the story that Wit and Kaladin concoct while Kaladin is in prison in WoR.

(sorry?).

 

I realize that it may be connected to the epigraphs also(and/or)  but consider how Hoid and Kaladin's story fits within the larger framework:

 

The music stopped abruptly. Kaladin opened his eyes, looking toward Wit. Would he be mad that Kaladin had made such a poor conclusion to the story? Wit stared at him, instrument still in his lap. The man didn’t seem angry. “So you do know this story,” Wit said. “What? I thought you were making it up.” “No, you were.” “Then what is there to know?” Wit smiled. “All stories told have been told before. We tell them to ourselves, as did all men who ever were. And all men who ever will be. The only things new are the names.”
 
 Words of Radiance p. 730
 
and
 

 

Kaladin sat up. He tapped one finger against his stone block of a bench. “So  .  .  . Fleet. Was he real?” “As real as I am,” Wit said. “And he died?” Kaladin said. “Before he could finish the race?” “He died.” Wit smiled.

 

 Words of Radiance p. 730, 731
 
and most convincing for me:
 

 

“So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself. And while the rain came down like tears, our Fleet refused to end this race. His body dead, but not his will, within those winds his soul did rise. “It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind.” Kaladin rested his hands against the bars of his cage. The music rang in the room, then slowly died. Kaladin gave it a moment, Wit looking at his instrument, a proud smile on his lips. Finally, he tucked his instrument under his arm, took his bag and sword, and walked toward the doorway out.

“What does it mean?” Kaladin whispered.

“It’s your story. You decide.”

 
 

 Words of Radiance p. 731

 

I think this has to do with beating the everstorm through strength of will, belief and perseverance, and self-sacrifice. Or maybe Wit is just talking about other cosmere stories we have seen (or will see  ;) ).

 

Chances are excellent that I am 100% wrong and I freely admit that and actually wouldn't mind a bit if that turns out to be the case. This just seemed kinda like it might fit as an ending...

 

Thoughts? Disagreements? Other ideas? 

*hides*

 

 

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It does have the ring of being the end of Kaladin's story, but the Stormlight Archive is bigger than just his story.  Not that I have a better answer!

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What if someone else besides Kaladin is "Fleet"?

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It makes sense.  Kaladin dying could be one way to get the stormfather to fully join the fight and let the other honorspren bond to men.

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This could very well be true. But I do think that this is a story about an event that all ready took place. If I'm recalling correctly, Shinovar doesn't get hit by the highstorms in present day. I believe that's where Rysn gets her patch of grass from :)

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I really like the theory and you have good evidence. It sounds/feels like it could be right.

I just think it's much too obvious. The first epigraph of Mistborn was EXTREMELY subtle, and, I would think, impossible to guess without hindsight.

Plus, the Fleet story has already been significant in helping Kal protect Elhokar. Which isn't a decisive point either way, but still.

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As Trevalion put it, I doubt Kaladin's death will be the last chapter of the Stormlight Archives.

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This is a huge Mistborn spoiler.  :blink: You might want to tag the whole thread as Mistborn spoilers, or if not that at least rephrase the spoiler from

"the first chapter epigraphs"

to "[one or more places early in the story]" or something.

As for stuff about the ending, I think Wit's "Gibletish" comments refer to breaking down and recombining some Shards in the system into something new, preferably something better at fighting Odium, or something that doesn't include Odium at all. (Blow up all 3 Shards and make Justice and Atonement, or something, etc. It has to be a little unpleasant if it includes Odium, but it could be better.)

I agree that the Fleet story suggests Kaladin's death, but it's almost pointless to kill Kaladin the way Fleet died; it's so glorious that there's no sense of loss. Especially if it's the end of the story anyway.

I'm more worried about the spren. The back cover of Way of Kings says someone "will destroy" whoever the speaker is. I think it's the spren.

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I think this has to do with beating the everstorm through strength of will, belief and perseverance, and self-sacrifice. Or maybe Wit is just talking about other cosmere stories we have seen (or will see  ;) ).

 

Uh. You seem to have the exact opposite interpretation that I have. Fleet tried really hard, he ran really hard, but he lost. He died. If we're applying this to the Stormlight Archive, it seems likely that Roshar is defeated by Odium (but of course, it's the journey not the destination so of course they all feel really good about how they died which makes it fine) and Odium moves on to other places.

 

... if Sanderson does that he will have all my respect. That would hit like a doozy. Like wow. Waiting two decades for his books, and he ends them like that? I hope he does this. It would fit thematically so well. Better to die having lived well than live having lived poorly is what he's been going for with Dalinar and Kaladin all along.

Edited by Moogle
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So in that land of dirt and soil, our hero stopped the storm itself. And while the rain came down like tears, our Fleet refused to end this race. His body dead, but not his will, within those winds his soul did rise. “It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind.” 

 

This sounds like it could be Honor's story.  We know his body (Tanavast) is dead.  But his soul (or at least pieces of it) in the form of Stormfather and Honorspren are still flying and racing the wind.  I could really imagine something like this coming up at the very end if it were telling a much bigger story about the shards. 

Edited by YmYm
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Uh. You seem to have the exact opposite interpretation that I have. Fleet tried really hard, he ran really hard, but he lost. He died. If we're applying this to the Stormlight Archive, it seems likely that Roshar is defeated by Odium (but of course, it's the journey not the destination so of course they all feel really good about how they died which makes it fine) and Odium moves on to other places.

... if Sanderson does that he will have all my respect. That would hit like a doozy. Like wow. Waiting two decades for his books, and he ends them like that? I hope he does this. It would fit thematically so well. Better to die having lived well than live having lived poorly is what he's been going for with Dalinar and Kaladin all along.

That would be both incredibly amazing and disappointing. Now I'm scared. I hope Brandon doesn't do it, but now I sort of hope he does, too.
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Brandon understands the reason we read his books too well to end with Odium winning and destroying Roshar.

 

Ultimately everyone who reads SA knows, deep down that the good guys will eventually triumph. The promise of the characters is that they will strive and eventually overcome evil.

 

They may die in the process, the victory may come about in a wholly unexpected and original manner. But in the end the good guys will win.

 

Brandon is not Neil Gaiman, Guy Gavriel Kay or GRRM. When you read those guys, you go in expecting that main characters are not invulnerable and the world is ultimately unfair.

 

So I think the everstorm will rage, the desolation will come, the land will be ravaged, many people will die (including some of the main characters), Shards will clash, but in the end, the bad guys will be defeated.

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I'm not entirely sure Wit's story applies to Kaladin alone. In the Way of Kings, when Wit was telling the story of Derethil and the Wandersail it helps Kaladin find himself again. However, as with this story, Wit repeats the fact that different characters will find different meaning. I thought the story of the Wandersail fitted Szeth as well as (if not better than) Kaladin. So maybe Fleet also is about Szeth or another character?

 

I just thought it interesting seeing as Szeth is now going back to Shinovar, where Fleet meets his end.

 

Just reading this 'theory' makes me cringe. It's my first time, go easy!  :unsure:

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I just think it's much too obvious. The first epigraph of Mistborn was EXTREMELY subtle, and, I would think, impossible to guess without hindsight.

Yeah it is much less subtle and pretty obvious- but the SA will be 10 books - so my thinking was that a lot could happen between now and then in the story that by the end - this particular way of ending - might seem very unlikely - having the effect of making it more subtle! I know - I'm not making sense...

 

 

 

As Trevalion put it, I doubt Kaladin's death will be the last chapter of the Stormlight Archives.

I don't think Fleet is Kaladin. Rather - who ever opposes Odium. I was looking at it in a more metaphorical way.

 

 

 

"the first chapter epigraphs"

yep - I know the question asked about the epigraphs - but it said "something similar" (emphasis mine). The answer was that "There are [similar things] but they are hidden in different places [might not be in epigraph type locations]At least that was how I interpreted it. Not as straightforward an answer maybe as it first appears.  This doesn't mean it IS Hoid's story - but I think it could mean that it is something other than an epigraph. I'm sure others will find other possibilities.

 

 

This sounds like it could be Honor's story.  We know his body (Tanavast) is dead.  But his soul (or at least pieces of it) in the form of Stormfather and Honorspren are still flying and racing the wind.  I could really imagine something like this coming up at the very end if it were telling a much bigger story about the shards. 

I agree - at least I don't think it is directly about Kaladin - so it could definitely  have to do with Honor and the shards. I think perhaps the story is more subtle than it first appears. I think it is a metaphor - so this is a good possibility - kudos!

 

 

 

 

Uh. You seem to have the exact opposite interpretation that I have. Fleet tried really hard, he ran really hard, but he lost.

 

Oh Moogle - if we ever 100% agree I fear for the universe.  :)   I don't think you (or Fleet rather) loses by dying. It seems rather by self sacrificing - whoever Fleet represents, wins. "It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn."  To me this says that by losing Fleet saved everyone and won. A tragic way to win but still a win.

 

And yet- we do agree!- you say "It would fit thematically so well. Better to die having lived well than live having lived poorly is what he's been going for with Dalinar and Kaladin all along." Yep- that's what I was saying too! Or at least trying to when I said it fits within the larger framework. Maybe I didn't spell it out clearly enough - but yes that is what I was going for  :).

 

 

 

I think the everstorm will rage, the desolation will come, the land will be ravaged, many people will die (including some of the main characters), Shards will clash, but in the end, the bad guys will be defeated.

 

 

This was how I was interpreting Hoid's story exactly  :)

 

 

 

This could very well be true. But I do think that this is a story about an event that all ready took place. If I'm recalling correctly, Shinovar doesn't get hit by the highstorms in present day. I believe that's where Rysn gets her patch of grass from

 

 

I agree- it is about what has happened. I think it is also about what will happen. I think Hoid was trying to say that history often repeats itself. I actually think this is one of the many larger themes.

 

I think that this story will end up being more subtle than it at first appears- so likely it won't be what...kinda like the way Brandon sometimes answers questions :)  

 

 

 

I'm not entirely sure Wit's story applies to Kaladin alone. In the Way of Kings, when Wit was telling the story of Derethil and the Wandersail it helps Kaladin find himself again. However, as with this story, Wit repeats the fact that different characters will find different meaning. I thought the story of the Wandersail fitted Szeth as well as (if not better than) Kaladin. So maybe Fleet also is about Szeth or another character?

 

Definitely possible! I think it is about whoever is left fighting against Odium.

 

The ending is so far from now that I think it will be surprising and yet fit perfectly with this story! In a twisty sort of way. 

 

"Wit repeats the fact that different characters will find different meaning. " Kinda like all of us  ;) 

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(within those winds his soul did rise. “It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind.”)

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like he becomes a Spren.... And I seem to remember that in the coded epitaph from the diagram it mentions a secret that caused the radiants to betray there oaths. Seems to me that the secret might be that the final and ultimate "destination" might be to transition into a Spren.... Thoughts???

Edited by arcmourn
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(within those winds his soul did rise. “It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. Past the sea and past the waves, our Fleet no longer lost his breath. Forever strong, forever fast, forever free to race the wind.”)

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like he becomes a Spren.... And I seem to remember that in the coded epitaph from the diagram it mentions a secret that caused the radiants to betray there oaths. Seems to me that the secret might be that the final and ultimate "destination" might be to transition into a Spren.... Thoughts??? 

 

Certainly possible. I was thinking more of the spiritual realm here since we haven't heard a whole lot about that aspect. But you are right it is described in a similar way as windspren. If it is literally Kaladin's story that would make sense. I am still thinking it is a metaphor though. Perhaps it is both.  :)

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It sounds to me like he picks up Honor.  The Shard.  And in doing so contains Odium. Kal's story could end much like Vin's did, but with him becoming one of the 16.  

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Does anyone else think the reference to the dawn:

"It flew upon the day’s last song, to win the race and claim the dawn. "

Might be related to the Dawnshards/Dawnsingers at all?

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Q: The ending of mistborn was hidden in the first chapter epigraphs. Is there something similar to that in The Way of Kings

A: There are but they are hidden in different places. The last chapter of the stormlight archive is somewhere in these two books.

The wording of this answer made me think of the way the epilogue of WoT was described in the first book of the series.

 

I guess it really depends on what Brandon defines as "last chapter," because he was pretty explicit in saying that rather than "the end of the series". If epilogue and last chapter are synonymous (Wikipedia claims that it is, not sure how Brandon thinks of it), then I highly doubt the Hoid/Kaladin story works since that includes a whole lot of climax in it, and epilogues as a rule of thumb don't cover climaxes.

 

At the very least, I think the story contains a healthy dose of foreshadowing. Just not necessarily for the end of the series.

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I might be failing really hard but I can't seem to find info about this Mistborn epigraph. Could someone perhaps link me to what this is all about please ;(.

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I might be failing really hard but I can't seem to find info about this Mistborn epigraph. Could someone perhaps link me to what this is all about please ;(.

 

First chapter Epigraph in Hero of Ages:

 

 

I am, unfortunately, the Hero of Ages.

 

Later on in the book (Chapter 31) Sazed says:

 

 

I am, unfortunately, in charge

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Oh wow that is so subtle I would never have figured that out. 

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Also (Mistborn/HoA spoilers obviously, hope I formatted correctly):

Mistborn Prologue epigraph:

 


They say I will hold the future of the entire world on my arms.

Hero of Ages chapter 82:

 


His arms twinkled, golden. His copperminds, worn on his forearms, reflected the light of the sun. They had been with him for so long, his companions. His knowledge.

 

Knowledge...

 

The words of the prophecy were very precise, he thought suddenly. They say...they say that the Hero will bear the future of the world on his arms.

Edited by tareth
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It sounds to me like he picks up Honor.  The Shard.  And in doing so contains Odium. Kal's story could end much like Vin's did, but with him becoming one of the 16.  

 

This is an interesting possibility.  Do you think this will be a recurring thing that a mc will hold a shard? I am not sure. Though could be...

*sits on fence*

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This is an interesting possibility. Do you think this will be a recurring thing that a mc will hold a shard? I am not sure. Though could be...

*sits on fence*

I can see Dalinar reforging Honour and someone else picking it up.

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