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Unknown Shards


Ishar

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6 hours ago, Karger said:

Why would any deity need to lie(I know that this is not necessarily what guile means but still, guile is an extremely human idea)?

You say this, but consider this.

Pre-shattering, Adonalsium - whatever it's exact nature may have been - had all 16 Shards. Now, we know that post-Shattering Vessel held Shards - one-sixteenth in scope compared to the entirety of Adonalsium - are capable of good Futuresight. 

Adonalsium - again, whatever its exact nature may have been - created the entirety of Greater Roshar. Including three habitable planets with fully functioning ecosystems. This shows us it was capable of acting on its own initiative, and was actually quite good at it.

Do you seriously expect a group of normal Humans, Sho-Del, and Dragons to even come close to Shattering it without it knowing about it, or allowing it? And yet, these things happened. Thus, clearly there is some aspect of cunning involved. It could be benevolent cunning, as in, it may have allowed it because it knew that it was necessary for everyone else. Or it could be the other way around. Either way, God's own Guile works. It may not even have been called Guile. It could just be the interpretation of one vessel at some point during its entire existence.

Also, Guile isn't technically negative. It doesn't have to mean lying on its own. It is honestly just cunning, intelligence, smartness, maybe used to oppose or outdo.

Edited by TheFoxQR
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2 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

A shard of Inspiration would be encouraging people to be wise.

Would they?  Inspiration is just skill.  What one does with it is up to them.

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1 minute ago, TheFoxQR said:

Do you seriously expect a group of normal Humans, Sho-Del, and Dragons to even come close to Shattering it without it knowing about it, or allowing it? And yet, these things happened. Thus, clearly there is some aspect of cunning involved. It

Or lack of cunning on the part of the shard indicating incredibly poor guile or perhaps a lack of it at all.

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Would they?  Inspiration is just skill.  What one does with it is up to them.

I was using the literal definition of the word. If that's what you've been thinking of it as, I understand why we disagree.

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Or lack of cunning on the part of the shard indicating incredibly poor guile or perhaps a lack of it at all.

Or extreme cunning... We'll find out eventually!

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4 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I was using the literal definition of the word. If that's what you've been thinking of it as, I understand why we disagree.

noun: inspiration

  1. 1.
    the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative.
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18 minutes ago, Karger said:

noun: inspiration

  1. 1.
    the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative.

Yes, that was the definition I was using. How do you see that gelling with the below statement?

31 minutes ago, Karger said:

Would they?  Inspiration is just skill.  What one does with it is up to them.

(I'm not trying to be difficult... I'm just trying to understand.)

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17 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

(I'm not trying to be difficult... I'm just trying to understand.)

Mental stimulation and the desire to do something are not moral qualities.  Creative people can be good or bad.  I don't associate the ability to come up with innovative solutions to immediate problems to lead to wisdom.  Wisdom comes from life experience.  Creativity is the ability to solve problems.  If you have read Name of The Wind you know that a creative person is fully capable of making some extraordinarily poor judgement calls.

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4 hours ago, Karger said:

Mental stimulation and the desire to do something are not moral qualities.  Creative people can be good or bad.  I don't associate the ability to come up with innovative solutions to immediate problems to lead to wisdom.  Wisdom comes from life experience.  Creativity is the ability to solve problems.  If you have read Name of The Wind you know that a creative person is fully capable of making some extraordinarily poor judgement calls.

I agree with you. I don't think any of the shards are going to be sources of morality (honor is debatable, but let's not get into that here). A shard of Inspiration would encourage creative ideas while a shard of Guile would encourage cunning ideas. I think both would be different takes on the same shard. Are we in agreement?

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