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God Metals-Lerasium

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My reponse still stands. Mistborn can burn atium despite it being Ruin's power and allomancy being Preservation's magic because they have Connection to Ruin. The need for Connection to a Shard to use the corresopnding godmetal in the Metallic Arts and why it won't work for non-Scadrian metals was exactly what I was responding to in my first post.

As for why Investiture's solid form has to be metal, Brandon has essentially said 'just because'.

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Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Well we've had liquid, we've had gas, the solids all seem to be metallic, so.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

That is intentional, it's just one of those little laws of the cosmere, that's not meant to mean anything

source

Also, creating a table for godmetal alloys is likely to be an exercise in futility. Brandon has stated that he hasn't nailed down what most of the atium alloys do (not to mention the feruchemical/hemalurgic uses for the lerasium alloys) so they're unlikely to be important in the long-term or something we'll even learn all of. Brandon has said that the sixteen base metals are basically it.

Edited by Weltall
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So. As Brandon said, we've seen Hoid use allomancy, right? But he's never explicitly stated that Hoid consumed his Lerasium, we just know that he's an allomancer. So here is my proposal. On Coppermind, it states that Hoid uses feruchemy to gain "foresight." We know that Atium, a god metal like Lerasium, can be used temporally. As in, it let's one see into the future, and store age. Perhaps Lerasium is sort of the opposite in a way. After all, ruin and preservation are opposites too. So, what if atiums power to see into the future is FORESIGHT? And storing age-most likely works in the Spiritual realm. Now, the original post on this thread basically said that allomantically utilizing Lerasium makes one mistborn, in a way similar to forgery in that it is changing an object's past to affect its present. SPIRITUALLY! Now, if Lerasium has a spiritual effect through Allomancy and Atium through Feruchemy, both temporally (somewhat), then perhaps in Atium allomancy, foresight, works the same way as Lerasium Feruchemy: storing FORESIGHT. I guess you know where this is going. Hoid never ate that Lerasium. He has been using it as a metalmind for feruchemy this whole time. A lerasiummind. He's waiting for that Atium at the Pits of Hathsin to reform so he can collect it, burn his Lerasium, and use it, effectively leaving him with omega-allomancy and Atium. He's simply using his Lerasium metalmind as a substitute till then. BAM. Theory complete.

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5 hours ago, BitBitio said:

On Coppermind, it states that Hoid uses feruchemy to gain "foresight."

Interesting, there's indeed a source that says that. There's also this newer and more well-known WoB that strongly implies he doesn't actually use Feruchemy, however:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/32-arcanum-unbounded-fort-collins-signing/#e2567

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Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

 

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Ok. Possible new theory. If Hoid is using chromium or at least it's mechanism, then I realized that he is still using feruchemy. @Leyrann thought that feruchemy wasn't involved, though that might not be true. Perhaps Hoid used the Lerasium as an alloy combo with chromium . To store FOREsight instead of FORtune.  Which is why coppermind states that Hoid uses feruchemy to gain foresight

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4 minutes ago, BitBitio said:

Ok. Possible new theory. If Hoid is using chromium or at least it's mechanism, then I realized that he is still using feruchemy. @Leyrann thought that feruchemy wasn't involved, though that might not be true. Perhaps Hoid used the Lerasium as an alloy combo with chromium . To store FOREsight instead of FORtune.  Which is why coppermind states that Hoid uses feruchemy to gain foresight

MAJOR OB Spoilers:

Spoiler

We know from Odium (when he's talking to Taravangian) that Fortune is related to future sight however.

 

And also this WoB, which basically tells us that "foresight" = fortune and that atium uses the same mechanism. I actually thought of this WoB last time around already but I forgot about it while replying to an earlier part of your post.

(oh, and again, try not to post several times. Instead, edit your last post. Oh, and try to not make posts like "Hmmm." that don't add anything to the discussion; they just clutter everything up and are best saved for chats, rather than forum threads)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/176-oathbringer-chicago-signing/#e8481

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, in Allomancy, most of the metals are in pairs, they're equal and opposite, pushing and pulling, Rioting, Soothing, that kind of thing. The god metals have always-- lerasium and atium, have always struck me as kind of unbalanced in a way. Like, lerasium gives you the power to use all these metals, plus atium being one of them. Is there a reason for that?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, there is, and it kinda has to do with Snapping and some of the fundamental rules of the Mistborn world and the fact that people have Preservation and Ruin inside of them and all these sorts of things. So, the answer is yes.

Partially, narratively, I built that in partially just 'cause I wanted atium to seem odd in the placement, right, when people got to it it's like "What? Why is this one-- This one doesn't match the others. This doesn't really work." When I was building Mistborn, one of the big things I wanted was this idea of a periodic table that was, kind of a flawed construct, that, as you read the books, you came to understand better and better. And that was something I executed-- I don't think I executed that 100% right, but I'm pleased with the general concept and how it plays out. And so I wanted atium to stick out like a sore thumb.

The other thing is, I knew I needed some good foreshadowing for Fortune, for people being able to kinda see the future or versions of the future, for the whole cosmere to work. And, so, I built in atium specifically to do those things. And I built in lerasium to have, kind of, the ultimate sort of benevolent endowment sort of thing. (Not Endowment the Shard, you know what I mean.) But I also wanted to show these two magics were intrinsically tied together on Scadrial because the way that humankind was cre

 

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@BitBitio Please avoid posting multiple times replies in a row. If you have something to add after posting, please edit your initial reply.

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My theory on Lerasium (or one of them anyway) is based on the WoB which stated that becoming an allomancer is a side effect of lerasium. 

So atium relates somehow to the future.

Leras is preservation. Whenever something is nowe preserved, it had been preserved in the past. That's what preservation does, it links the past to the present via a staying the same relation. 

So what if you rewrote your spiritweb to be as it would have been had Adonalsium not been shattered? Thus mistborn would be, in a sense, really old school magic users and probably capable of picking up any shard's power as they are connected at least a little bit, via Adonalsium, to every shard. 

So then the reason why hoid would need the bead would be to use it to be able to pick up the other magics or manipulate them in some way. 

 

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15 hours ago, Storyspren said:

So then the reason why hoid would need the bead would be to use it to be able to pick up the other magics or manipulate them in some way. 

We tried that. Allomancy or Bust.

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Questioner
Did Hoid use the bead of Lerasium to rewrite his spiritual DNA or Web in a way other than just giving himself Allomantic powers?

Brandon Sanderson
His goal was to become an Allomancer.

Questioner
And did he use it to create other powers than Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson
It could not give powers other than Allomancy.

Questioner
Because it’s Lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes.

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On 4/19/2018 at 10:14 AM, BitBitio said:

Ok. Possible new theory. If Hoid is using chromium or at least it's mechanism, then I realized that he is still using feruchemy. @Leyrann thought that feruchemy wasn't involved, though that might not be true. Perhaps Hoid used the Lerasium as an alloy combo with chromium . To store FOREsight instead of FORtune.  Which is why coppermind states that Hoid uses feruchemy to gain foresight

It is very unlikely he is using Feruchemy which is directly tied into the sDNA of Scadrial. It isn't a power you can just take. Hoid had his powers of luck long before he received the Lerasium. He is most likely using a form of fortune that predate the shattering, or possibly one that he set out to acquire before any of the books we've seen him in.

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On 4/23/2018 at 10:09 AM, The One Who Connects said:

We tried that. Allomancy or Bust.

Ah. Guess it's a stretch then to think it's lerasium PLUS eg a spren that he needs too. Darn

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These God-metals sound like mini-portals or keys to the Spiritual Realm. Using them to become a Mistborn, sounds like burning matches to stay warm. 

Hoid is old enough, he probably has a much deeper understanding of Investiture. I am sure he can do allomancy, but strongly suspect he was talking about this when he told Frost, that he still had the element with him, and something about having it as close as his skin. 

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25 minutes ago, ZenBossanova said:

Hoid is old enough, he probably has a much deeper understanding of Investiture. I am sure he can do allomancy, but strongly suspect he was talking about this when he told Frost, that he still had the element with him, and something about having it as close as his skin. 

I took that for a much more straightforward meaning. 

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Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.

He burned it, and protects its power by continuing to live. 

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Considering how Ruin and Preservation interact with people, i.e. the power of Preservation immediately fills cracks in the spiritweb, stopping Preservation from inserting thoughts, maybe burning Lerasium repairs any damage to a spiritweb, and the patch material is what gives allomancy, I'd be willing to wager that the only requirement for burning Lerasium would be that your spiritweb can't be in perfect condition, and the more damaged the spiritweb, the more powerful the resulting allomancer. 

As for a Lerasium spike, I can't imagine what it would steal (if it could steal something in the first place), but I'm going to say that receiving a charged Lerasium spike wouldn't leave holes in your spiritweb like a regular hemalurgical spike would. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Athanat0s said:

As for a Lerasium spike, I can't imagine what it would steal (if it could steal something in the first place), but I'm going to say that receiving a charged Lerasium spike wouldn't leave holes in your spiritweb like a regular hemalurgical spike would. 

 

All hemalurgic god metals appear to steal any attribute. We've seen both Atium and Trellium contain many different abilties. Atium is confirmed to be a catch all. Trellium hasn't been confirmed, but so far it looks like it. 

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2 hours ago, Athanat0s said:

As for a Lerasium spike, I can't imagine what it would steal (if it could steal something in the first place), but I'm going to say that receiving a charged Lerasium spike wouldn't leave holes in your spiritweb like a regular hemalurgical spike would.

Brandon's confirmed that it can steal things but he hasn't given us any idea what, and that using it for hemalurgy would be really really wasteful. 'Like using a nuclear bomb as a paperweight' was his exact way of putting it.

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27 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Brandon's confirmed that it can steal things but he hasn't given us any idea what, and that using it for hemalurgy would be really really wasteful. 'Like using a nuclear bomb as a paperweight' was his exact way of putting it.

I mean why use it as a spike? It would be much more efficient to just use it. Even if it is a small amount it would be better to alloy it with another metal to become strong in a single power rather than damage your spirit web stealing a single attribute.

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Yeah, I know why he said that, I'm just pointing out that Brandon's confirmed that it does work hemalurgically to steal things. And that whatever it does, it's evidently not nearly as impressive as its allomantic (and potentially its feruchemical) uses

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10 hours ago, Weltall said:

Yeah, I know why he said that, I'm just pointing out that Brandon's confirmed that it does work hemalurgically to steal things. And that whatever it does, it's evidently not nearly as impressive as its allomantic (and potentially its feruchemical) uses

The feruchemical potential is the most interesting to me. Too bad lesarium barely existed Era1, and you would really need a full Feru to tap it. I would be surprised if TLR didn't experiment with it. I wonder if a cache of it exists somewhere on Scadrial.

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1 hour ago, Fatikis said:

The feruchemical potential is the most interesting to me. Too bad lesarium barely existed Era1, and you would really need a full Feru to tap it. I would be surprised if TLR didn't experiment with it. I wonder if a cache of it exists somewhere on Scadrial.

There is a WoB about the limited Number of Lerasium beads created... Something about the possibility they were 16 originally. In this case 11 of them are confirmed to be' used and leaves a possibility for the missing 5

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4 minutes ago, Yata said:

There is a WoB about the limited Number of Lerasium beads created... Something about the possibility they were 16 originally. In this case 11 of them are confirmed to be' used and leaves a possibility for the missing 5

There's an old Word of Peter that said there were at least twelve beads (here) which would leave une accounted for as Rashek didn't actually use lerasium to make himself a mistborn. There's also a newer Word of Brandon where he responded to a question about whether there were originally sixteen beads with 'an excellent guess'. So yeah, there should be some lerasium lying around.

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Well regardless, without full Feruchemists Lerasium is quite useless in Feruchemy.

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The honorblades are made out of Honor's essence, so I think what might be happening is using the metal in question tunes you into the Investiture or abilities of the Shard in question. Atium allows you to briefly see the future, as Ati could. Lerasium gives you allomancy, lthe raw power of Preservation. Tanavastium (in sword form) gives you access to the surges.

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1 hour ago, Thunderclast said:

The honorblades are made out of Honor's essence, so I think what might be happening is using the metal in question tunes you into the Investiture or abilities of the Shard in question. Atium allows you to briefly see the future, as Ati could. Lerasium gives you allomancy, lthe raw power of Preservation. Tanavastium (in sword form) gives you access to the surges.

But Preservation was actually far better than Ruin at seeing the future, so it'd be weird if Atium granted that power and not Lerasium if that's the way it worked. All of the Shardblades are made of Tanavast's investiture, not just the Honorblades, which is why they have to take a metallic form when they're being used as a weapon. I think the Honorblades are more like an unsealed Nicrosilmind, that grant anyone who holds it certain powers.

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The surges are not of tanavast or cultivation or any shard

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3 minutes ago, John203 said:

The surges are not of tanavast or cultivation or any shard

Do you have a WoB?
The manifestation and usage of the surges appears to be specifically linked shards. Honor/Cultivation and possibly Odium. 

The God metal is probably different depending on the spren. Honor spren a pure god metal. Cultivation spren pure Cultivation god metal. The others alloys of god metals.

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