Tineye Navigator

God Metals-Lerasium

52 posts in this topic

I don't think the opposite powers bit holds up. I doubt lesarium is going to change your past or have no hemalurgic effect.

I agree Lesarium hemalurgy should be powered by Preservation. I believe all Godmetals will be a wild card allowing any power transfer. For example Trellium seems to be able to hold multiple powers. This means Atium's true Hemalurgic purpose is unknown.  In which case Lesarium should be a perfect spike not subject to hemalurgic decay. Maybe it even amplifies the power taken via Preservation.
 

Edited by Fatikis
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall this is remarkably well thought out. I can see the appeal of it, but I unfortunately don't agree. 

My main issue is the idea that lerasium creates a Mistborn who doesn't have to snap. Snapping isn't a means of getting more Preservation into the soul, it's a means of allowing investiture to flow into the spiritweb from an external source, and it is a constant effect. It is the reason Radiants must be "broken." 

Lerasium alters the spiritual DNA. As such, it makes a person's spirit the same as if they had been born as a Mistborn. This should still require then to have snapped. Elend had been through the ritualistic beating that all noble children suffer, plus everything else that had happened in the books, including the gut wound at the well. He had been through more than enough to have snapped at that point. You don't have to be an allomancer to snap, it just isn't called the same thing when a non-mainstream user does it, because they gain nothing from it other than trauma. 

As far as the allomantic effect of lerasium, I think it's a fun idea and makes sense as an opposite a kind of permanent forgery. I like it. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Overall this is remarkably well thought out. I can see the appeal of it, but I unfortunately don't agree. 

My main issue is the idea that lerasium creates a Mistborn who doesn't have to snap. Snapping isn't a means of getting more Preservation into the soul, it's a means of allowing investiture to flow into the spiritweb from an external source, and it is a constant effect. It is the reason Radiants must be "broken." 

Lerasium alters the spiritual DNA. As such, it makes a person's spirit the same as if they had been born as a Mistborn. This should still require then to have snapped. Elend had been through the ritualistic beating that all noble children suffer, plus everything else that had happened in the books, including the gut wound at the well. He had been through more than enough to have snapped at that point. You don't have to be an allomancer to snap, it just isn't called the same thing when a non-mainstream user does it, because they gain nothing from it other than trauma. 

As far as the allomantic effect of lerasium, I think it's a fun idea and makes sense as an opposite a kind of permanent forgery. I like it. 

I disagree slightly. I believe snapping is now required to let more of Preservation, but I think this is due to genetic drift.

If you have the full correct Mistborn sDNA you shouldn't need to snap. This is essentially what the Lesarium is doing. It alters you into a true sDNA Mistborn. Elend is even stronger than Vin. This implies that even standard full Mistborn don't have the full sDNA possible for Allomancy because of this snapping is required to let Preservation fill those cracks essentially amplifying the watered down sDNA. Snapping in my opinion is letting Preservation fill the cracks in the allomantic sDNA.

Edited by Fatikis
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@CalderisThanks for the feedback. I think I will edit that part of my original post. 

@Fatikis(your name won't let me tag you) That makes sense, and that's what I originally thought, but more studying of WoB  seems to show that the more powerful the mistborn the more trauma might be needed to create the snapping.

What about if the permanent forgery forged a traumatic experience into the childhood, prior to being able to remember the event? i.e. as an infant or young toddler?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Fatikis said:

I don't think the opposite powers bit holds up. I doubt lesarium is going to change your past or have no hemalurgic effect.

I agree Lesarium hemalurgy should be powered by Preservation. I believe all Godmetals will be a wild card allowing any power transfer. For example Trellium seems to be able to hold multiple powers. This means Atium's true Hemalurgic purpose is unknown.  In which case Lesarium should be a perfect spike not subject to hemalurgic decay. Maybe it even amplifies the power taken via Preservation.
 

I definitely agree with your second paragraph. I feel like my knowledge of what a lerasium spike would do was actually weakened by my research, but it will definitely be a wildcard. And I don't think it will do nothing either, but that was the only "conclusion" I could come up with. My other idea was that it wouldn't "steal" the power, but duplicate it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tineye Navigator said:

 My other idea was that it wouldn't "steal" the power, but duplicate it.

I could definitely see that. It could function as a nonlethal hemalurgy replicating the sDNA instead of taking it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like some of these ideas.  Let me spitball with you all a minute.  

Brandon has been asked if Hoid burned the bead and if Hoid is a mistborn many times. He seems to answer, you have seen Hoid use Allomancy.  Does anyone know if a time where Brandon answered directly?  I've looked and can't find any.  This leaves some interesting questions.  Have we seen Hoid use Allomancy more than once?  More than one ability? 

Is it possible Hoid used the bead to make a small, non lethal spike to transfer abilities?  This could mean he "copied" a soother or rioter.  I'm trying to think about the types of word mazes Brandon uses to give non answers to spoilery questions when an RAFO and also be spoilery... 

What if the proud owner of a Lerasium spike can "poke" Sacadrians with different talents?  The perfect spike theory above makes this possible.  The spike will get a new "charge" with each new "poke".  This would fit with Brandon telling us Hoid intends to be a Mistborn but not telling us he burned the bead.  This also gets around the known fact that Hoid can not seriously injure people without throwing up.  

Sorry this is kind of stream of consciousness at the moment.   I hope the forthcoming table of Hemalurgy give us more clues.  

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really enjoyed reading this. I think there are some good ideas, but some are a bit of a stretch I think. I think you just need more WoB at this point to strengthen it. Unfortunately for you, at this time, I don't think there are any more. 

@Augustine I think stream of consciousness is the best way to begin theories, so keep it up.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. I like this theory a lot, it's one of the first huge one's I read all the way through, but my main problem is with the thoughts on Feruchemy. Copper and brass are the opposites, but warmth and memories don't seem like opposites. Of course, you didn't look that much into it, so I get that there is not much to theorize about there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Augustine said:

Brandon has been asked if Hoid burned the bead and if Hoid is a mistborn many times. He seems to answer, you have seen Hoid use Allomancy.  Does anyone know if a time where Brandon answered directly?  I've looked and can't find any.  This leaves some interesting questions.  Have we seen Hoid use Allomancy more than once?  More than one ability? 


Is it possible Hoid used the bead to make a small, non lethal spike to transfer abilities?  This could mean he "copied" a soother or rioter.  I'm trying to think about the types of word mazes Brandon uses to give non answers to spoilery questions when an RAFO and also be spoilery... 

I've seen it postulated before on the forum that Hoid alloyed out the bead to make himself a Misting. I think it's just just as simple as Hoid burned it and Brandon enjoys being coy and letting us overanalyze all of his quotes.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Naurock said:

I've seen it postulated before on the forum that Hoid alloyed out the bead to make himself a Misting. I think it's just just as simple as Hoid burned it and Brandon enjoys being coy and letting us overanalyze all of his quotes.

Yeah, Brandon is a troll. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be' only a waste to Alloy the Lerasium to burn It and become a Misting...no real gain in not burning pure Lerasium

Edited by Yata
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is an interesting theory. We definetly don’t know enough about Hemalurgy and Lerasium to come up with any sort of conclusive answers. Something where I think you might be wrong though is Lerasium being an opposite of Atium. We know that the 16 regular metals are all in pairs, and then there are pairs of pairs, making 4 groups of 4. The initial pairs are always the first metal, and an alloy of it. Those are the ones that are opposite. This would mean that atium’s opposite is malatium. This would probably mean that Lerasium falls into the same group of four as atium, but is not atium’s direct opposite, meaning Lerasium could do pretty much anything, although it most likely has to do with time and the spirit realm. About Lerasium spikes, is it possible that you end up with a spike that not only has perfect hemalurgy, but grants any other spikes you have perfect hemalurgy as well?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ishar

Atium and Malatium are not opposite.
Malatium is just an alloy of Atium and Gold and will form a pair with the Atium+Electrum alloy. Atium as pure metal isn't part of a pair and the same thing is true for Lerasium.
Notice also that the "opposite" stuff isn't strictly true even into the pair and it's just an human's perception from a limited sample of powers....For example take Lerasium+Iron and Lerasium+Steel, their effects are to turn someone into a Lurcher and Coinshooter, you may notice how those effects are not opposite in any way.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Kidpen said:

Hmm. I like this theory a lot, it's one of the first huge one's I read all the way through, but my main problem is with the thoughts on Feruchemy. Copper and brass are the opposites, but warmth and memories don't seem like opposites. Of course, you didn't look that much into it, so I get that there is not much to theorize about there.

There's two things to keep in mind there. First, Feruchemy doesn't have clear opposites like Allomancy does, and second, Brandon messed up the Feruchemical table, swapping the effects of Warmth and Determination (I don't remember the metals they belonged to), and he decided to leave it in as a quirk of the system because the first books were already in print by the time it was discovered.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

This metal doesn't quite belong on the table where it has been placed.

 this quote from Brandon suggests something a question I've had ever since I read the hero of Ages and learn that atium was the condensed power of ruin  is that if ruin and preservation have a metal that can be burned in allomancy why don't other shards have metals that can be burned in allomancy and then I read edgedancer and either right before or right after Wyndle turns into a fork he says that spren can change into any form but it always has to be metal and then something clicked what if there are two tables one for all the god medals and their alloys and the regular metals and their alloys 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe lerasium works like a forgery and rewrites your past so that you are a true mistborn.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if Hoid did make alloys out of the lerasium, due to the possibility that some mistborn abilities conflict with what he already has. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, NoBrandonBookIsTooLong said:

 this quote from Brandon suggests something a question I've had ever since I read the hero of Ages and learn that atium was the condensed power of ruin  is that if ruin and preservation have a metal that can be burned in allomancy why don't other shards have metals that can be burned in allomancy and then I read edgedancer and either right before or right after Wyndle turns into a fork he says that spren can change into any form but it always has to be metal and then something clicked what if there are two tables one for all the god medals and their alloys and the regular metals and their alloys 

Quite possible, but the question is how "opposite" they will be.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@NoBrandonBookIsTooLong, each godmetal can be alloyed with each base metal (lerasium+iron, lerasium+steel, etc.), so there would be many tables. 17+ to be more specific.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/16/2018 at 11:16 AM, NoBrandonBookIsTooLong said:

 this quote from Brandon suggests something a question I've had ever since I read the hero of Ages and learn that atium was the condensed power of ruin  is that if ruin and preservation have a metal that can be burned in allomancy why don't other shards have metals that can be burned in allomancy

Because allomancers are generally not going to have any Connection to Shards other than Preservation and Ruin, so trying to burn 'Tanavastium' isn't going to accomplish anything.

Quote

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A shardblade is invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

source
Quote

Shadowsaber223

If Odium were lured to Scadrial, would his physical body turn into a burnable metal?

If so, could Harmony create an Odium-metal legion of Mistings to consume and burn it?

Would that weaken him sufficiently enough to be killed or destroyed?

Brandon Sanderson

The difficulty here is, again, one of Identity. People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic. Odium would have to do certain things to make them able to use a magic he fuels. He has done these things on Roshar, so it's not impossible for him to manage it on Scadrial.

source

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Can a Mistborn burn any physical form of Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No. Well-- possible with work, but naturally, no.

source

Basically, non-Scadrian godmetals will only work if the Shard does something to make the metal viable or if the allomancer is able to form the right sort of Connection to the other Shard.

23 hours ago, MountainKing said:

Maybe lerasium works like a forgery and rewrites your past so that you are a true mistborn.

Since there were no mistborn prior to the lerasium beads, this is sort of adding an unnecessary step to the process. There may be some mechanical similarities (in that both modify the spiritweb) I doubt they're that closely related.

Edited by Weltall
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I wasn't saying that mistborns could start burning Shard plates, what I was trying to resolve was the conflict of where Atium belongs on the table and how there are likely to be many subcategories as metals that we may have to look into, what we consider to be the basic metals maybe just one of two tables that should be considered basic, not to mention that considering preservation was looking to connect his interference with signs a god had interfered that just the number 16 could have been considered an oddity but also having just metals also connects him to a pattern Within the 16 shards also we should be asking why does investiture's solid form have to be metal

Edited by NoBrandonBookIsTooLong
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandon literally said that non-Scadrian godmetals are not viable in the Metallic Arts under normal circumstances, that's pretty definitive.

For point one, everyone on Scadrial has Connection to both Preservation and Ruin because they made the planet and permeate it. It's kind of an essential plot point.

For point two, just because the godmetals are the condensed power of a Shard still does not mean that they are automatically usable. See Brandon's multiple WoBs on how you need Connection. And burning atium doesn't deplete Ruin's power per se and it eventually gets recycled. What happened in Hero of Ages was just keeping that part of Ruin's power out of his reach so he couldn't absorb it.

For the last point, magic systems are not created by the Shards as such, they're the result of interactions between the Shard, the planet and the sDNA of the people on it. Preservation and Ruin didn't 'base' the metals on anything, it just happened that way. They may have had a bit more control over how their power would manifest due to their creation of Scadrial but it doesn't matter in this instance because again, Scadrians do not have Connection to the other Shards so those other godmetals. Will. Not. Work. Unless the Shard does something or the user creates the necessary Connection themselves.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@weltall reread my post i changed it before you answered

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.