Philomath

[OB] Adolin, Maya, and Shallan

33 posts in this topic

I know there are several threads that discuss both Adolin and Maya and Adolin and Shallan so if I should have put this idea in one of those I apologize. I have some thoughts about Adolin and Maya that I hadn't seen though and wanted to throw out here. I think that it may be possible that Adolin will revive Maya but that when that happens she may say "Thanks, but no thanks." In other words, she will be glad to be restored, but due to what happened to her, she will have no desire to bond another radiant. I like this because while I like Adolin as a character I really hope he doesn't become a radiant. It would be nice to keep some characters different.

Now to tie Shallan in to this. I wonder if in Adolin's journey to revive Maya, he will have to do some *gasp* research. And who does he know who likes learning and studying things? Well his wife. So I think that in trying to revive Maya, it can actually strengthen his relationship with Shallan and make them slightly more compatible. She is literally going crazy over learning something he cares about and is highly interested in so it would be cool to see him explore something that is important to her. 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this, it puts an intresting twist that I hadn't thought of. I also like the idea of Adolin not becoming radiant. I like having people who are not radiant to be important and powerfull in the world of radiants, gods, and spren. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally believe in order to revive her they'll have to form a Nahel bond. Granted she may choose to leave after but it's been hinted by WoB that breaking a bond cleanly is not actually all that easy short of the death of the human and I'd be surprised if she wanted to risk it.

I could definitely see Shallan getting involved in helping Adolin figure things out and that bringing them closer together though.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I personally believe in order to revive her they'll have to form a Nahel bond. Granted she may choose to leave after but it's been hinted by WoB that breaking a bond cleanly is not actually all that easy short of the death of the human and I'd be surprised if she wanted to risk it.

I could definitely see Shallan getting involved in helping Adolin figure things out and that bringing them closer together though.

That is possible. It seems many people on here feel that would be too easy a way for him to get a Nahel bond. Wouldn't it be ironic if having a bond then having it severed by the spren is what breaks him enough for people to feel like he has rightly "earned" a bond. I still just really hope he doesn't become a radiant. I like that he is one main(ish) character who is an outlier. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that the token normal character tends to get sidelined, killed off for drama, or turned into comic relief so I don't want a character I like to be the token normal. I think reviving a dead spren is an interesting character arc for him that's better than "token normal".

And I don't want it to be an easy process for him to revive her. Brandon's said it's really hard, so it shouldn't be easy, but I do want to see it happen.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I don't want Adolin to just be a "token normal" character. I think his character can be more interesting for having to deal with not being the best anymore. Being the only not "awesome" person in his close circle.

And I do think that reviving Maya will be difficult and I want to see it happen. I just think the after effects of it will be interesting. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Philomath said:

That is possible. It seems many people on here feel that would be too easy a way for him to get a Nahel bond.

Which I always find odd as it's by far the harder path. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Which I always find odd as it's by far the harder path. 

I don't disagree with this. It is just a different path. I am not opposed if a bond happens this way. I just am not convinced that it will be the automatic result of Maya's revival.

Edit to add: So basically I think two things in this topic. I don't want Adolin to be a radiant. But I do want him to revive Maya. So if reviving her means he becomes a radiant I will accept that. Not do I think that that way of forming a bond is somehow less or unearned. 

Another question so as to avoid double posting. Why is he starting to revive her now? Did meeting her in Shadesmar cause them to have a greater connection and start this process? If other spren were to be revived would their shardblade holders have to travel to Shadesmar?

Edited by Philomath
Edit for clarification
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know for sure. It seems likely that meeting her in Shadesmar might be part of the reason but  that's mostly speculation at this point.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Philomath i did say very similiar in one of the threads, can't remember which one, but got shot down by people saying the nahel bond would have to of been formed in order to revive maya.

Personally i hope maya isn't revived, i don't partocularily like that arc, might like it more if it wasn't another Kholin being the one to do it,

My personal favourite theory at the moment is my own that Adolin becomes Odiums new champion, but most don't seem to like that one, but i think it has a certain symmetry to it.

And personally i can see how it could happen.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Maya arc is not very interesting to me. I feel like Andolins demise would be the best catalyst (unto greater heights) for our main three characters. So far (at least to me) the series hasn’t cost us anything. It’s been a safe read. If that makes sense. The wedding feels like a big setup for Andolins demise in whatever form that takes. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think losing Adolin would destroy Shallan personally, the girl needs somebody to help ground her.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Feel free to correct me...

IIRC there were 3 points from WoBs to revive a mostly-dead spren

- It's not easy, but this is possible with the original Radiant. Now whereas I don't think we will see a bunch of really old Exradiants, I'm rather sure a descendant would do great.

-The one reviving a spren has to be within the parameter of the order of this spren. As it looks like Protoradiants are speading like mushrooms this days, I don't think of this as the real problem, too.

-Whatever was ripped off at the Recreance must be replaced with a part of the one who will revive a spren - now there I see a problem. This leaves too many possibilities to end up bad for the human part.

I fear whoever will revive a spren will end up altered loosing the part a dead spren needs to live again, perhaps in coma or even dead.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, hypatia said:

- It's not easy, but this is possible with the original Radiant. Now whereas I don't think we will see a bunch of really old Exradiants, I'm rather sure a descendant would do great.

It is thought to be impossible, and was easier with the original Radiant. This is exactly the situation that we saw with Kaladin and Syl. Their bond was not advanced enough for her to be a blade but he still killed and revived her. 

Quote

Questioner

And I also have a question about the nature of spren being dead. Specifically about whether or not they can resurrected. Because ideas can never really die...

Brandon Sanderson

Ideas can never really die--

Questioner

... Cognitive creatures--

Brandon Sanderson

They are Cognitive creatures. This is theoretically possible but very difficult without the people who originally betrayed their oaths.

source

 

36 minutes ago, hypatia said:

-The one reviving a spren has to be within the parameter of the order of this spren. As it looks like Protoradiants are speading like mushrooms this days, I don't think of this as the real problem, too.

No qualms here. 

36 minutes ago, hypatia said:

Whatever was ripped off at the Recreance must be replaced with a part of the one who will revive a spren - now there I see a problem. This leaves too many possibilities to end up bad for the human part.

I've seen this idea mentioned numerous times and I don't understand it. What was ripped out of the spren was the Nahel bond itself. Connection is like a quantum force, and not in itself investiture. What was ripped off was not a part of the Radiants spirit, so what is provided should not come from the new bonder's spiritweb either. 

The difficulty in my mind is that in order to forge a bond with a dead blade, you need to create a connection that runs both ways with a nearly mindless entity. For the Radiant who killed them, that connection never left, so if they can restore their oaths, the bond is complete. For a new binder they have to forge that connection with something that isn't able to respond, as well as live by a set of oaths for which they have absolutely no guidance. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it requires a lot more work from the human partner, but the fact that she's responding at all suggests he's making some real progress.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the problem is we're all thinking about Radiants "like in the old days". I get why people don't want Adolin becoming a Radiant: it would "ruin" his "normal guy" arc. 

But if we take Venli and Renarin, we see they're not like the old Radiants. We're watching new things being born and evolving in different ways. I seriously want Adolin to bring Maya back. And what if she is the one saying the Oaths? They will have a Nahel bond, but in a completly different way. 

And I love the idea of Shallan helping him with this quest. It may help her not only being closer and more truly herself around him, but focused and slighltly less insane ;) 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I think the end result will be more or less the same as usual (though she might have some mental scars)  but the process is definitely different, and I think reviving a dead spren has huge potential story implications. It'd change the status quo. Right now there's an issue with a lot of spren not wanting to bond, and having one of the dead ones get revived might help with that issue. Also, she'll know things that could be very important.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Carla Bridge Four said:

And I love the idea of Shallan helping him with this quest. It may help her not only being closer and more truly herself around him, but focused and slighltly less insane ;) 

One thing I love about Shallan in WoK and the beginning WoR was how curious she was and how much she wanted to learn and soak in knowledge. I missed that about her in Oathbringer and I hope something can bring that back. I feel like that is a part of the "real" her that she has lost. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think Sanderson would go over all the effort of presenting Maya to just later drop this arc with no closure whatsoever. So, something is being set to happen here, and given that Adolin started the whole thing, he will probably be the one to end it.

Given that, I don't see much of a way for him not to revive her, but this may not end well for him as mentioned, maybe the cost is too high and he ends up either dead or disabled. In any way, I don't see him becoming a Edgedancer though, since he doesn't seem fit to that Order and the Ideals they have (well ... he would have remembered Maya ... thinking this way, it would be a good match).

The way I would most like to see this ending would be to the revival of dead spren to result in the creation of a new order of KR.

Finally, I don't think we can only base future expectations on past events, as the Everstorm has never happen, Honor's perpendicularity was never opened after Honor's death and Singers are now bonding sprens like humans. With surprising events like this happening, one can expect the unexpected.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before Shallan can help Adolin with any research, she has to pull herself together because right now, the Shallan personality is a silly little. Veil and Radiant may be broken but they are the adults in the room and until the real Shallan takes them back, I don't see progress.

Since Odium's champion was brought up, I could she Shallan becoming that because it's easy. Rather than continue to struggle to put herself back together, she could eventually give up and embrace Odium. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/28/2018 at 3:10 PM, IronBars said:

My personal favourite theory at the moment is my own that Adolin becomes Odiums new champion, but most don't seem to like that one, but i think it has a certain symmetry to it.

Okay, I had to resond to this, becaue I can see this happening, although right now I think Renarin will be Odium’s champion.  Either way Adolin or Renarin would work for what I’m thinking.  Anyway, Odium needs someone who can beat the Blackthorn.  Personally, I think Dalinar is super boss and won’t be easily defeated.  So the best way to defeat him is to have the champion be someone who Dalinar is not willing to kill.  And those are his sons.  Maybe flashback Dalinar would have killed his sons for the greater good, but I don’t think the current Dalinar will.  Anyway, so I think Renarin will became the chapion, he already has a currupt spren, and then near the end he will decide that he actually wants Odium deafeated and so he will kill himself.  Same thing could happen with Adolin, but personally I think it’s more likely with Renarin.

Anyway, enough of that, I do have something to say about the real topic of this post.  I also really want Adolin to not be a radiant, but I also want him to revive Maya.  I don’t know if I’ll get both, so I appreicate the theory, because at least for now I can be happy to think that it’s possible to have both desires.

On 3/30/2018 at 5:21 PM, Philomath said:

One thing I love about Shallan in WoK and the beginning WoR was how curious she was and how much she wanted to learn and soak in knowledge. I missed that about her in Oathbringer and I hope something can bring that back. I feel like that is a part of the "real" her that she has lost. 

I agree I loved Shallan, but I can’t stand her in Oathbringer.  I don’t want her skills as Veil to go away, but I want the scholar back.  She wonders about who she really is.  She’s a lot of things, but she’s also a scholar.  She loves it.  Yes, she would sometimes complain about it in WoK, but really who doesn’t complain at times?

Adolin and her doing research together just sounds amazing.  I do ship them, but Oathbringer was kind of a let down.  Their relationship didn’t build expect in part one, and then they get marrried?  It’s okay, but something needs to make it better.  Mostly Shallan needs to stop lying to everyone, but mostly Adolin.  She can get lying to some people, that’s fine, but she needs to talk to Adolin.  Her lies are not good for a marraige.  I hope this is solved up in the next book.

On 4/8/2018 at 11:58 AM, Angsos said:

Before Shallan can help Adolin with any research, she has to pull herself together because right now, the Shallan personality is a silly little. Veil and Radiant may be broken but they are the adults in the room and until the real Shallan takes them back, I don't see progress.

 

I disagree, I actally think that the research with her husband could help heal her.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps it might help with Radiant and stop further dissolution. I don't see Veil going down without a fight though and she definitely won't want to do research, unless it's in a bar or back alley.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really like this theory, as it would give some great insight into Spren as well.

Ultimately, I feel like Maya is going to be revived because Shallan dies or almost dies.  One way it will be a heavy grief thing (probably on both ends, Maya feeling terrible for Adolin and pulling a 'let me help you with your pain' thing,) the other it will be your typical KR to the rescue scene.  (Which-although certainly fantastic-is why I don't think it will be the latter.)

I like your idea best though.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Aurora the Rioter said:

Okay, I had to resond to this, becaue I can see this happening, although right now I think Renarin will be Odium’s champion.  Either way Adolin or Renarin would work for what I’m thinking.  Anyway, Odium needs someone who can beat the Blackthorn.  Personally, I think Dalinar is super boss and won’t be easily defeated.  So the best way to defeat him is to have the champion be someone who Dalinar is not willing to kill.  And those are his sons.  Maybe flashback Dalinar would have killed his sons for the greater good, but I don’t think the current Dalinar will.  Anyway, so I think Renarin will became the chapion, he already has a currupt spren, and then near the end he will decide that he actually wants Odium deafeated and so he will kill himself.  Same thing could happen with Adolin, but personally I think it’s more likely with Renarin.

We don't have much evidence that Odium will stick with a duel of champions ... since he couldn't do it the way he wanted, he might as well change strategy. I wonder why did he accept that in the first place, Sanderson is very vague on the how would that help Odium but it was obviously something Odium was planning for (since he had Dalinar for years in "preparation"). I was thinking it could be due to Dalinar being a Bondsmith, but I feel that all started before anyone could know that for a fact, as Dalinar/Bondsmiths seems capable of joining worlds and that may be the door Odium is looking for. Also, no rules were established for the duel, and without a commited champion to fight for you, he may as well concede to the other champion.

If he decides to continue on this path, I think Adolin is a more plausible choice, giving his past experience with the Thrill and his recent assassination of Sadeas. Renarin even having a corrupted spren, sounds like a lot more effort to bend his will.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Aurora the Rioter said:

Okay, I had to resond to this, becaue I can see this happening, although right now I think Renarin will be Odium’s champion.  Either way Adolin or Renarin would work for what I’m thinking.  Anyway, Odium needs someone who can beat the Blackthorn.  Personally, I think Dalinar is super boss and won’t be easily defeated.  So the best way to defeat him is to have the champion be someone who Dalinar is not willing to kill.  And those are his sons.  Maybe flashback Dalinar would have killed his sons for the greater good, but I don’t think the current Dalinar will.  Anyway, so I think Renarin will became the chapion, he already has a currupt spren, and then near the end he will decide that he actually wants Odium deafeated and so he will kill himself.  Same thing could happen with Adolin, but personally I think it’s more likely with Renarin.

Dalinar was Odium's first choice champion. There is nothing to say he has to be Honour's champion too.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.