[OB] Kaladin and Worldhoppers

[Caevita]

Is it just me or do people who are "in the know" always assume Kaladin is a worldhopper too? I mean first we had Wit name-dropping Adonalsium to try to get a reaction out of Kaladin. Which was a little weird, but hey, it's Wit! Whatcha gonna do? And then Azure goes and does it too. ("Are you following me?")

I've been trying to think it over, but I've got absolutely zero idea what was going on there. We definitely hadn't met Azure by that name before, and I couldn't find anyone else who fit her description. The only thing I can think of, then, is that she was accusing him of following her to Roshar. But why would she assume that? I'm quite certain Kaladin himself is native, and I haven't noticed anyone commenting on Kaladin's hair or skin color being abnormal for Alethkar or anything else that would clue me in on his ancestors being out-of-towners either.

Am I missing something blindingly obvious? Am I overthinking it? Or did I just board a train to RAFOville?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Caevita

[Shqueeves]

Wit name dropped adonalsium to dalinar, not kaladin. I think you're just overthinking things

[RShara]

Sorry, but Wit never mentions Adonalsium to Kaladin.  He drops the name to Dalinar, because he thought Dalinar was part of oneo f the secret societies wandering around, and wanted to see his reaction.

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Questioner

When Hoid is talking to Dalinar he seems to expect that Dalinar may have heard of Adonalsium.

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium.  Yes.

Questioner

Why is that?  Why would he think that Dalinar would have knowledge about that?

Brandon Sanderson

He thought that Dalinar was part of some of the secret societies on Roshar, and he had thought his way into thinking Dalinar was part of them and that was how Dalinar was knowing certain things he was knowing.  Which he really wasn't, he was getting from the storms and things like this, but he thought that Gavilar had confided things in Dalinar and that Dalinar would know more about this.  And so he was kind of testing to see, and he was wrong.  

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Azure never once mentions Adonalsium.  I don't think she would even know who that was.  Are you thinking of when Ash swears by Adonalsium when she feels Jezrien dying?  That was to herself/Taln, Kaladin was no where around.

 

I'm not sure what you're referring to about "are you following me"?  I don't remember Azure or Ash saying that.

Edited March 27, 2018 by RShara

[King Cole]

Im not gonna lie, I read the title of this thread and the only thing I could think was that Kaladin and The Worldhoppers would be an awesome Band name

 

I’ll see myself out

[Weltall]

It's possible I'm forgetting a line by Azure but the only thing that immediately springs to mind where someone mistook Kaladin for a worldhopper is Riino, who knows Kaladin is Invested when he's able to see something with the Fortune sphere. But his initial assumption that he was from Nalthis was based on his isolation and thus not knowing that spren had started forming Nahel Bonds again and Syl not being present helped with that. As soon as he realized that surgebinders were returning, he immediately corrected himself.

[The One Who Connects]

56 minutes ago, King Cole said:

I'm not gonna lie, I read the title of this thread and the only thing I could think was that Kaladin and The Worldhoppers would be an awesome Band name

I want to make a reference, but it only works if Kaladin has a last name, which is unfortunate.

[Wishell]

Not so much an answer here as another question: Does anyone think that any of the characters from Roshar will eventually worldhop? I know that Wit already has but since he isn’t native to Roshar he doesn’t really count in that sense. 

[Scion of the Mists]

18 hours ago, Wishell said:

Not so much an answer here as another question: Does anyone think that any of the characters from Roshar will eventually worldhop? I know that Wit already has but since he isn’t native to Roshar he doesn’t really count in that sense. 

Seeing as how every other planet has worldhoppers, I would guess that Roshar (one of the most important in the Cosmere) would also produce a few.  

[Wishell]

@Scion of the Mists but who do we think are the most likely to manage it and any theories on why? 

I’ve got my money on Kaladin or Szeth and think it will be tied to Nightblood...possibly...

[Calderis]

Lift. Because she can make Stormlight anywhere just by eating. 

Any other Radiant has to figure out how to get their spren off world, and hack a system to fuel their magic. Lift just needs to get Wyndel out and she's good to go. 

[Weltall]

Lift is a great candidate because she'd have the fewest problems Surgebinding offworld. Another good option is Jasnah, who would need a hack to power her magic (or a sufficient supply of flawless gemstones) but has two added advantages that make her a good worldhopping candidate. First, she's a scholar and would go wild (well, as wild as Jasnah can be) at the prospect of all the knowledge she could acquire. Second, her entire powerset is attuned to interacting with the Cognitive Realm and with travel, so it would probably be easier for her to get around than just about anyone else. Oh, and she's also been primed to handle knowledge of other worlds through her interactions with Hoid.

Granted, she's a little busy now but hey, maybe at some point in the timeskip between halves or after SA10 (depending on what goes on and assuming she survives to either or both of those points) I could imagine it being possible for her to take a little Shadesmar road trip. And I really really would love to see her and Khriss meet at some point.

[Calderis]

6 hours ago, Weltall said:

Granted, she's a little busy now but hey, maybe at some point in the timeskip between halves or after SA10 (depending on what goes on and assuming she survives to either or both of those points) I could imagine it being possible for her to take a little Shadesmar road trip. And I really really would love to see her and Khriss meet at some point.

Jasnah for Adonalsium, 2044

[Isilel]

On 3.4.2018 at 9:39 PM, Weltall said:

Lift is a great candidate because she'd have the fewest problems Surgebinding offworld.

True. Lift worldhopping by herself wouldn't be all that interesting, though,  as she could only visit the worlds that have perpendicularities, like lots of other worldhoppers already do. But if she can infuse gemstones with her metabolised stormlight, then she would also be able to power other Radiants off-world. Which would open mind-blowing possibilities, if she teams up with an Elsecaller or a Willshaper. It always seemed like such a cruel joke that these 2 Orders have unparalleled abilities for exploration of the Cosmere, which are rendered effectively useless by the fact that stormlight is only available on Roshar and difficult to store for more than a couple of weeks.

 

On 3.4.2018 at 9:39 PM, Weltall said:

Another good option is Jasnah, who would need a hack to power her magic (or a sufficient supply of flawless gemstones) but has two added advantages that make her a good worldhopping candidate. First, she's a scholar and would go wild (well, as wild as Jasnah can be) at the prospect of all the knowledge she could acquire. Second, her entire powerset is attuned to interacting with the Cognitive Realm and with travel, so it would probably be easier for her to get around than just about anyone else. 

Right. I'd really, really love for Jasnah to become a worldhopper. However, there is the problem of powering her surges off-Roshar - as I am sure that if anybody could figure out how to get their spren off-world, which is supposed to be difficult, but not impossible, it would be her. Teaming up with Lift might be one entertaining possibility. I used to think that Jasnah could get an F-Nicrosil spike and store stormlight investiture in metalminds, which would get around the volatility problem, or get an allomantic spike and hack the magical systems to fuel her surges with the power of Preservation, but unfortunately there was this recent WoB that seems to suggest that hemalurgic spike would cause problems with a Nahel spren  - spoilered for length:

 

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Spoiler

 

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Okay cool.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.

Djarskublar (paraphrased)

Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Miles was doing some funky stuff.

source

 

 

 

However, it occured to me that maybe there is another method that would allow storage of stormlight over sufficient amount of time to explore the cosmere - aluminium containers. As far as I understand it, surrounding gems infused with stormlight with aluminium should prevent investiture from escaping. This would be a far more accessible solution than the few available perfect gems. So, maybe that's what will allow Elsecallers and Willdhapers to finally live up to their full potential as scholars and explorers?

 

On 3.4.2018 at 9:39 PM, Weltall said:

And I really really would love to see her and Khriss meet at some point.

Indeed. In fact, I can't help wondering if Khriss has some means of visiting minor shardworlds lacking perpendicularities, or if she is as limited to the major shardworlds as everybody else. In the latter case her being supposedly the most knowledgeable about the Cosmere still leaves most of it completely unexplored in the physical realm and ripe for discovery by the Elsecallers and Willshapers. Khriss and Jasnah could form a collaboration for the ages!

By-the-by I'd really love a Sanderson story about somebody becoming a worldhopper - discovering the secret wonder of inter-world travel by themselves. Maybe Shai from "The Emperor's Soul"? She seemed determined to track down the treacherous Imperial Fool, whom we know to be Hoid, after all. Her Forging wouldn't work off-world, but her mundane skills are impressive and seem tailored to world-hopping.

 

[cheezyguy6]

On 3/27/2018 at 0:37 PM, Caevita said:

We definitely hadn't met Azure by that name before, and I couldn't find anyone else who fit her description.

Azure is Vivenna. You see her hair change color once they get to Shadesmar (Oathbringer chapter 110), and she's on Roshar so she can look for Vasher.

[Weltall]

14 hours ago, Isilel said:

It always seemed like such a cruel joke that these 2 Orders have unparalleled abilities for exploration of the Cosmere, which are rendered effectively useless by the fact that stormlight is only available on Roshar and difficult to store for more than a couple of weeks.

Well, depending on the world it's always possible for them to use those abilities via system hacks. We know Taldain's a source of very easy Investiture, though it's currently inaccessible. Breath is a bit harder to get ahold of but once you do it's very easy to power other abilities with it, especially Surgebinding. And I imagine that if you could get there safely, the Dor could be used to infuse gemstones. In lieu of system hacks, I like the idea of keeping gems in aluminum when they're not being used to stop the Investiture from leaking. I'll just mention that Brandon has said this sort of thing might work (in the context of preventing hemalurgic decay) so we don't know if it would actually work in practice but it sure sounds good.

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Indeed. In fact, I can't help wondering if Khriss has some means of visiting minor shardworlds lacking perpendicularities, or if she is as limited to the major shardworlds as everybody else.

Well, we know that 'minor shardworlds' can have Perpendicularities as well. Case in point: First of the Sun. Brandon has distinguished major from minor shardworlds by the current presence (in the Physical/Cognitive Realms) of a Shard and by how you interact with magic. All major shardworlds have Perpendicularities because there's a Shard present but not all Perpendicularities designate major shardworlds, if you follow.

Anyhow, the Arcanum Unbounded essays make it clear that Khriss (as of the time the essays were written at least) has no means of visiting worlds that lack Perpendicularities, only observing them from the Cognitive Realm and that limits her knowledge. In discussing the Threnodite System she mentions that other planets' lack of any Perpendicularities has made it impossible to research the effects the clash between Ambition and Odium had on those planets. The worlds can still be studied but not to the same extent; She mentions that Drominad has three worlds with fully developed human societies, so even with limitations it's clear that one can learn a great deal about those worlds that don't have a Perpendicularity.

But yeah, she currently is limited and I'll bet Jasnah would immediately become her best friend by virtue of her powers letting her create mini-Perpendicularities at will.

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By-the-by I'd really love a Sanderson story about somebody becoming a worldhopper - discovering the secret wonder of inter-world travel by themselves. Maybe Shai from "The Emperor's Soul"? She seemed determined to track down the treacherous Imperial Fool, whom we know to be Hoid, after all. Her Forging wouldn't work off-world, but her mundane skills are impressive and seem tailored to world-hopping.

Shai would be another great character to see learn to worldhop and I'd love to see her again. Maybe some kind of cross-Cosmere symposium could be arranged. Jasnah and Khriss, Shai and Shallan (just imagine the conversations those two could have), Wayne and absolutely anybody....

[Caevita]

6 hours ago, cheezyguy6 said:

Azure is Vivenna. You see her hair change color once they get to Shadesmar (Oathbringer chapter 110), and she's on Roshar so she can look for Vasher.

There is a reason I said "by that name." Maybe I should have said, "in this series" or "on Roshar," but all I was trying to say was that I have no idea why she would assume Kaladin, specifically, was chasing her. From where, she doesn't say. I would assume Nalthis, though, hence my question. Why would she assume that?

[Mistspren]

7 hours ago, Caevita said:

There is a reason I said "by that name." Maybe I should have said, "in this series" or "on Roshar," but all I was trying to say was that I have no idea why she would assume Kaladin, specifically, was chasing her. From where, she doesn't say. I would assume Nalthis, though, hence my question. Why would she assume that?

Vivenna knew Kaladin was an invested individual with great interest in her, and naturally assumed he was following her from Nalthis, as the KR’s return was not common knowledge. Vivenna seems to expect that she was being tailed, and the questions Kaladin was asking were targeted at ascertaining her identity and abnormality. It was merely an assumption that made sense in the circumstance, or at least that’s how I see it.