Ashspren

[OB] Ideals of the Knights Radiant?

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Do we have an official list for what ideal each of the Knights Radiant have sworn? 

Also, do different powers come with each ideal sworn? I remember that Jasnah implies to Shallan that she has Plate, meanwhile Shallan does not. 

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Was looking at Szeth's fourth ideal there;

"I will cleanse the Shin of their false leaders, so long as Dalinar Kholin agrees"

Is that ideal still fulfilled if Dalinar disagrees ? And Szeth can move on to the fifth ideal ? 

Or does Szeth need to find something else to swear the fourth ideal to ? To replace that one ?

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I think now that the ideal is sworn, it’s okay. He said “as long as Dalinar agrees.” If Dalinar doesn’t agree, and Szeth doesn’t “cleanse the Shin of their false leaders,” he’s still fulfilling the ideal and listening to Dalinar.

Also, do the Radiants gain more abilities as they swear more ideals? Jasnah, who might be on the 4th or 5th ideal, has Plate. Shallan does not.

That brings up another point— Lightweavers and their ideals. They just have to swear truths. I’m curious to see what other truths Shallan might have... she had an interesting past.

Also, just wanted to point out: Szeth has sworn 4 ideals in less time than it has taken some to swear 2 or 3... is this because of Nale being their personal trainer, or just because of Szeth himself?

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11 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Also, do the Radiants gain more abilities as they swear more ideals? Jasnah, who might be on the 4th or 5th ideal, has Plate. Shallan does not.

That brings up another point— Lightweavers and their ideals. They just have to swear truths. I’m curious to see what other truths Shallan might have... she had an interesting past.

Also, just wanted to point out: Szeth has sworn 4 ideals in less time than it has taken some to swear 2 or 3... is this because of Nale being their personal trainer, or just because of Szeth himself?

When a Radiant swears an oath they become more efficient at using stormlight and at oaths 3 and 4 get a shardbalde and shardplate. They have access to all surges before the first oath, but due to a weak nahel bond or low efficient stormlight usage that surge is hard to perform or dangerous to use.

Szeth has only sworn two oaths. Skybreakers' 3 and 4 oath are goals that they have to proof to their spren that they are completing or have completed. So Szeth is working on his thrid oath and has not started on his fourth oath yet.

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Got it, thank you. When do you think Szeth will swear the third and fourth ideals?

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Szeth swore the 3rd Oath already after the battle.  It was to follow Dalinar.

 

Quote

“The law is made by men, so it is not perfect either. It is not perfection we seek, for perfection is impossible. It is instead consistency. You have said the Words?”

“Not yet. I swear to follow the will of Dalinar Kholin. This is my oath.” At the Words, snow crystallized around him in the air, then fluttered down. He felt a surge of something. Approval? From the hidden spren who only rarely showed itself to him, even still.

 

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1 hour ago, MountainKing said:

Szeth has only sworn two oaths. Skybreakers' 3 and 4 oath are goals that they have to proof to their spren that they are completing or have completed. So Szeth is working on his thrid oath and has not started on his fourth oath yet.

Are oaths basically predecessors to ideals, then? Maybe promises of them?

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1 hour ago, RShara said:

Szeth swore the 3rd Oath already after the battle.  It was to follow Dalinar.

 

 

Right now I'm saying Szeth swore his 3rd oath, but it still working towards it because he does not have a normal shardblade right now, All the other Radiants got their shardblades with their third oaths.

28 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Are oaths basically predecessors to ideals, then? Maybe promises of them?

Ideals and the oaths are the same.

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31 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Are oaths basically predecessors to ideals, then? Maybe promises of them?

Near as I can tell, the words Oath and Ideal are synonymous in this case. The 2nd Ideal is an Oath, so to speak. The Skybreakers just spell it out more literally than others, as shown in the wiki:

Quote

Ideals of the Skybreakers:
The second Ideal, also called the Ideal of Justice, is a specific oath to seek and administer justice.
The third Ideal, also called the Ideal of Dedication, is a specific oath to dedicate oneself to a greater truth.
    IV   
The final Ideal, called the Ideal of Law, this requires the Skybreaker to swear an oath that they will become a personification of law and truth.

Kaladin swears Oaths, but the Windrunner in the Gemstone Library talks about swearing their Fourth Ideal. Ideals seem like the formal name for them, while Oaths seem like the layman's term.

Edit: Ninja'd by MountainKing

Edited by The One Who Connects
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1 minute ago, MountainKing said:

Right now I'm saying Szeth swore his 3rd oath, but it still working towards it because he does not have a normal shardblade right now, All the other Radiants got their shardblades with their third oaths.

Ideals and the oaths are the same.

Well he hasn't tried to summon his Shardblade.  We don't get his PoV after that.  Also, why would he want to when he has Nightblood?

His Oath was accepted by the spren.  No more evidence needed.

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2 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Right now I'm saying Szeth swore his 3rd oath, but it still working towards it because he does not have a normal shardblade right now, All the other Radiants got their shardblades with their third oaths.

Ideals and the oaths are the same.

I think Szeth will only get his normal Shardlade after Azure (Vivenna) or Zahel (Vasher) gain possession of Nightblood. It seems like Nightblood forms a strong bond with his owner. (Honestly, I wouldn’t blame Szeth if he wants to keep Nightblood forever. Nightblood is amazing. :))

and thank you for the clarification about ideals and oaths!

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To add to the discussion of Szeth, the Fourth Ideal of the Skybreakers seems to be a two-step process. First you decide what your personal crusade is going to be, then you have to carry it out to the satisfaction of your spren. Until they've decided that you fulfilled your oath, it doesn't actuallly count for purposes of Radiant progression. So while Szeth has stated his intention, until he actually cleanses Shinovar of its false leaders (or if Dalinar disagrees, swears something else in its place) he won't advance beyond where he currently is. The Skybreakers are also different in that you don't actually form a Nahel Bond until you've sworn their second Ideal, which presumably has to do with the Highspren and what they look for in a potential Radiant.

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With the Skybreakers and their strict adherence to law, it makes sense that their Ideals are more formalized than other Orders. After all, it's difficult to follow laws if you do not know them. Also, since their Order never broke they don't have to fumble around and learn as they go like everyone else (i.e. Windrunners).

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Sorry, I read OB a little while ago, so I forgot some things... do we know the name and type of Szeth's spren?

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Just now, Ashspren said:

Sorry, I read OB a little while ago, so I forgot some things... do we know the name and type of Szeth's spren?

Name no. Skybreakers bond Highspren. 

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22 hours ago, Calderis said:

Name no. Skybreakers bond Highspren. 

Furthermore, I believe their cousin spren are starspren. Could be wrong.

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11 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Furthermore, I believe their cousin spren are starspren. Could be wrong.

Quote

Starspren Appear like glowing insects, zipping around; tiny pinpricks of light, chasing after one another. They are a rare type of spren (likely only seen between moons when the sky is poorly lit).”

— Stormlight Archive Wiki

Given the description on the wiki, I think it’s more likely that the starspren aren’t as sentient as highspren, honorspren, cryptics, etc. I could be wrong though; we don’t know a lot about them.

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13 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Given the description on the wiki, I think it’s more likely that the starspren aren’t as sentient as highspren, honorspren, cryptics, etc. I could be wrong though; we don’t know a lot about them.

He was calling them their "cousins" in the same way as windspren are cousins  to honorspren. 

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2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

He was calling them their "cousins" in the same way as windspren are cousins  to honorspren. 

Oh, okay... I get it now!

sorry, @Bigmikey357— now I see what you were saying. I totally think that could be a possibility.

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