26-03-2018 - Majestic Fox - The Green Ocean - Chapter Two (Second Half) 4486 words

[Robinski]

Hello everyone. This is Majestic Fox's submission for this week, and he provides the following commentary.

 

Changes for re-write:

 

I've added a character called Dorik, who will first appear in chapter one. 

He is an old man, and was once a hunter until he went utterly mad. 

The elders believe it was the dark power of Munoria itself which caused him to go mad.

(Munoria being one of two worlds in which the story is set; the forest being the most corrupt and dangerous part of Munoria). 

The purpose of this character is to show what the elders believe will is likely to happen to Willow should she continue to her disobedience and sin, and her outings to the forest. 

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Temporary Fox

[Mandamon]

@Majestic Fox Very nice submission! I still have trouble with W's relationship with L (comments below) but once she gets out into the forest, the rest of the submission is just enchanting. Very much looking forward to the next part, and finding out more about the forest gods!

pg 3: "It was a cruel thing, making him believe she reciprocated his feelings for her, but she had not yet found a way to stop"
--this is still not working for me, and tanks my sympathy for W. Hopefully we'll get some explanation through this chapter.

pg 3: "whose love was locked beneath an iron blanket"
--what does this mean?

pg 4: "Could you love someone like that?"
--If W is stringing L along, then why does she think this? Seems more like she's deceiving herself (which I can understand better).

pg 7: "but the shovelling the night soil no longer seemed such a heavy task as it had before."
--More thoughts on W + L. I think what's bugging me is that W is acting like she's attracted to and appreciates L, both mentally and physically, but then calls out that she isn't when it's obviously false. She's spent years in his company. Either she's planning the longest con ever at this kid's expense, or she genuinely cares for him. If it's the former, then I have no sympathy for her.

pg 8: "right now it blissfully soft."
--missing a word.

pg 10: "their trunks degged with deep moss"
--Never heard of "degged" before. It means something like spotted?

pg 11: I love the descriptions of the spirits.

pg 11: "enormous crag that lay at its roots"
--"crag" seems to mean a rock face, but the description here makes me thing it's a boulder.

pg 15: very cool ending. Glad to see W's got some ability, and I looking forward to finding out more about it.

[kais]

Overall

I thought the motivations and the relationship, especially with W, were somewhat lacking, but generally the plot is solid. I liked the forest scene a lot, and like the magic that is unfolding. I was kind of hoping the end would not involve her getting possessed by an 'evil' spirit, as that sort of lacks a twist (and I was expecting a twist). Still very invested though, and refusing to give up my 'ship.

13 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--More thoughts on W + L. I think what's bugging me is that W is acting like she's attracted to and appreciates L, both mentally and physically, but then calls out that she isn't when it's obviously false. She's spent years in his company. Either she's planning the longest con ever at this kid's expense, or she genuinely cares for him. If it's the former, then I have no sympathy for her.

This is basically where I am at, too.

ETA: I don't know to think, is the problem, about the two characters in this chapter. If she's stringing him along, fine. If not, fine, but I can't get a clear read on it, so I'm left to conjecture, and the conjecture wanders between unflattering and confusing.

 

As I go

- these chapters seem very, very long

- pages 1-2: this seems like recap? Even with WRS I remember this bit from previous weeks (hello from the future--apparently this IS a repeat section. Carry on)

- page 2: wait, why is O's love locked away? I need more here

- have mixed feelings about stringing L along just so she can feel wanted

- page four: why is she wondering if L could love an old woman? Why does she care about his feelings when they're old, but not right now? This seems inconsistent in voice

- so, if a guy I didn't like romantically was checking out my body in a sexual way, I'd have a reaction. Not necessarily a bad one, but I'd react, if only internally. And if W is a lesbian, there would likely be a squick factor involved

- page five: wait, why does she want to pursue his blushing?? So confused. Asexual but not aromantic, maybe?

- page 6: a lot of rehashing through these pages, of things we already know

- page eight: wait, she's going to go collecting again, but she just got knocked down for that. Didn't she say she was going to try to 'do better'? Seems pretty early to be breaking rules again, since she's still mourning the loss of being a hunter. It also seems inconsistent, since the voice up until now was 'defeated', and all of a sudden we are getting 'defiant.'

- it'd be great to end the chapter on 'the crag was a drengir.'

- interesting ending

Edited March 28, 2018 by kais

[Truthweaver]

Oh, I really like where this is going. I do agree with @kais though, I found it odd that W is leaving again so soon after being punished. Her relationship with L is also a bit confusing--does she like him or not? If not, it seems like she's stringing him along and because of that, she lost some of my sympathy. She feels more early teens here during the scene with Lewis than early twenties.

The descriptions of the forest are beautiful, especially when she meets the spirits. You definitely have a talent for vivid description.

Looking forward to reading more! 

[mrwizard70]

W and L hurt to read. 

She gets weird in the lucid/tired section, and the weirdness is weird, and it makes the reading a bit hard to follow. If there are important bits in there, be aware readers will miss details while reading through stuff like that. 

I can tell you love this section with the D. It’s got none of the problems the rest of the chapter does. Really interesting, great ending with opening the door to let the reader see before ending the chapter. 

[industrialistDragon]

I really enjoyed this chapter! I like how it feels like the story knows where it is going and it feels like it is making progress towards that goal, even this early on in the story. 

One place I did feel like things got a bit muddy, though, is the scene around the manure pile. Like the others, I found it uncharacteristically ambiguous, and wondered at the purpose of the scene. She then goes on to act alone that night/early morning, so why is L introduced there again? I like him a bit better in this incarnation, at least, and I prefer her tepid and a bit calculated responses to the squicky romance from before. 

 

On 3/27/2018 at 8:53 AM, Mandamon said:

Either she's planning the longest con ever at this kid's expense, or she genuinely cares for him. If it's the former, then I have no sympathy for her.

Does it have to be romantic love or coldheartedness though? That distinct either/or? I got the impression that while she does genuinely care for him, she didn't reciprocate his romantic feelings. But because she cares for him, she doesn't want him to be unhappy or sad, so she keeps trying on the romantic feelings to see if they "fit" or "work." It'd certainly be easier if they did, and would avoid a lot of sadness and conflict, and avoiding conflict at all costs is something some people, women particularly, are trained to do. I think that's why I'm more sympathetic to her stringing him along -- I can totally see where she's coming from. Granted, she's being pretty heavy-handed about it, and none of that precludes a certain ruthless desire to maintain a close ally inside a town that is actively hostile towards her, especially when the romantic feelings make said ally more likely to take her side in otherwise risky behavior. Both of these things can be true at the same time. While the scene is confusing, I think calling it a con is making her out to be more sinister and heartless than is actually happening. 

 

On 3/27/2018 at 6:45 PM, kais said:

Asexual but not aromantic, maybe?

Again, it is possible to care about someone without wanting to bone them AND still be straight. The mere fact she is wishy-washy about having romantic feelings for a childhood friend does not automatically mean she must be asexual. Are you maybe thinking of the previous version, that had a much more straightforward (if disquieting) romance? I've been working off the assumption that this is a rewrite of that... 

[Robinski]

Comments.

• “Are you trying to say saying…” – You’ve got a habit of phrasing things indirectly, and in a roundabout way, sometimes. This really slows the narrative down. I would put it down to first edit, but it’s not!! Direct phrasing and direct thought (by the pov chr) is more engaging than wordiness and waffling.
• “You must have been a child when I last taught you anything” – I'm still struggling with the age difference, or not the difference, but W’s perception of it. Did you say she's 25? He's hardly a child when he was 19. When she was 21 he was 15, arguably a child, but she was not long out of childhood. I don't thini the age difference supports this statement.
• “the last of the night soil had been shifted” – I don't understand the process. I've got problems with the blocking of this scene. Did someone come a take the cart away to empty it thing bring it back, or an empty cart to replace the full one? Instead of having a man with a whet stone materialise out of nowhere, why not have the cart driver come back and interupt their conversation?
• “giddy from lack of food and water” – Not convinced. How long was she shovelling? With no food or drink? What about the food Lewis brought? The implication here is that it's a good 3 hours, maybe more? I think she would have fainted or torn a muscle long before now if she had not taken breaks and drunk water.
• There’s something wrong with the mechanics around the night soil. How does it get into a big pile for W to shovel onto a cart? It’s very bad planning, this process, and involves ‘handling’ the n/s multiple times, some of which are unnecessary. It feels like it’s manufactured (the process) to fit the need of the story, but not grounded in reality or logic.
• “No. W threw back the blankets and vaulted out of bed.” – I laughed at this part, not in a good way.
• “No longer could she feel > She could no longer feel” – To me, the original is in a different, lofty, formal and somewhat arcane tone, to than rest of the story.

I enjoyed this section. I like the things that happen, and I like the way you describe them. I like a lot of the imagery, and I continue to think you’ve got a strong story here. I've sent LBLs separately, and I have some quibbles about language and word choice in certain places, but the above are the main structural elements that I thought I should comment on.

I felt that W made the discovery in the forest quite quickly. From a pacing perspective, I would have liked maybe it to seem like she went a bit further into the forest before encountering the creature. It felt a bit too easy to me.

Good work. Let’s get on to Chapter 3 now. Don’t be dwelling overly. This stuff will still be here when you come back to fix it  

<R>

[Majestic Fox]

Thanks a lot to everyone for these comments. And thanks to Robinski for posting the work out. Much appreciation.