Mid-Range Game 28: Knives in the Dark

[Amanuensis]

11 minutes ago, Madagascar said:

*throw a pig vaguely towards Amanuensis, hits innocent bystander instead* Can you clarify this statement? According to me verrah scientific chart, the legend feller posted two hours ago, while the eternity feller voted fer him six hours ago. My keen mathematical alpigra abilities make me think that two is less than six, which makes me suspect Eternity posted before livinglegend did, makin' the claim he was lurkin' true at the time, but in your statement you seem to imply the reverse. Your "real talk" comment makes me think if you meant that as a joke, but if so the pigs find it a confusing one. I mean, like you said, if we're gonna be votin' to have each other made into delicious chouta, we should at least have our facts straight.

That is hilariously embarrassing  I really thought LL posted before Eternum voted for him. Sorry for my I blatant ineptitude and unintentional hypocrisy 

Also *makes sure innocent bystander is okay before picking up the pig* this little guy is mine now, and his name is Hypo. We will be the best of friends 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Amanuensis

[Kynedath]

1 hour ago, Amanuensis said:

It's been a very long time since I've played with Kyn (or anyone here really) and although I'm very excited to see him back, I'm not getting the best of vibes from him. Whats triggering me specifically is how "clinical" his posts feel. Phrasing seems very careful and the words are clean, organized. Less like natural train of thought and more like "I need to sell this image" and he's trying a bit too hard.

I'll just address this quickly. First off, it's good to see you again too Aman! It's good to be back in SE after a break (for the second time actually).

I like words and how they work together. My ELA mark ended at a 95% and I like to think that my vocabulary is fairly sophisticated. Unfortunately, this post isn't helping me because you reminded me of my structured writing style and now I believe that I'm exaggerating it slightly. In addition, my posts tend to seem stiff and clinical due to my affinity for mathematics and a very linear way of thinking. My strengths include statistics and finding evidence based off of extended "what if" situations. Honestly, I'm practically useless when it comes to gut reads and behavioral speculation.

And honestly, I treat these games like a debate. My goal is to try and convince the other players that my evidence is correct and that my assumptions are sound. I have found that the best way to do that is to formulate strong arguments that accurately articulate my points. I apologize if I go overboard sometimes, but every time I write a post, I feel like I am writing a miniature essay.

On the topic of Eternum (since they are the ones currently up for lynch) I disagree that their "sense of cluelessness" indicates any link to eliminator behavior. I am frustrated too and I dislike not knowing how everything works. It's an understandable feeling.

Aman, your next comment was on his stance concerning the discussion that was going on. You say that he seemed like he was trying to blend in, and this I believe is more credible. It's a very common tactic. On the other hand, it could just be that his feelings match those of the others in the thread. This is a game with a very small amount of information, and there are only so many stances to be had on a piece of info. Considering we have no definitive way of telling which statement is true, I don't think this is sufficient evidence.

However, Devotary makes a point that I find compelling. I'm also curious to see why they think that the only thing we can do is lynch randomly. Voting patterns and player behavior are the principle methods with which to determine whom to vote for. Those have not been taken away from us, only knowledge of what can happen due to roles, as well as the details of the eliminator team.

And just as a preventative argument that I know will come up for some reason, I'm not voting on them because I do not wish to participate in D1 lynches. You can look back into any game I've been in and see that this holds true. I believe that killing someone right out of the gate deprives them of some of the fun of playing SE. I've been killed day 1 and it wasn't fun. That being said, I will not try to convince anyone else to not vote since I recognize that D1 lynches are necessary for gathering information.

[Herowannabe]

9 hours ago, Kynedath said:

I tried to make an RP post, but I can't quite seem to get down what I mean into that format. Sorry Herowannabe, otherwise I would totally respond to your RP.

Nabbers blinks once at Lo-Kag, then says, “Ah mate, you’re not even trying! All you gotta do is say, ‘Lo-Kag happily buys a half dozen Choutas from Nabbers, and remembers to tip extra, then turns back to the crowd and says, “blah blah blah...”’ See? Easy. Although you should probably avoid throwing so many quotes inside of quotes like I did. It makes people’s heads hurt.”

8 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Go ahead and keep your vote on me. It's not going to change the fact that I still have no information to share, nor any actual idea of who to be suspicious of, and for what reasons. Also, will Bunnies eat chouta? 

“Oh sure, of course! Who doesn’t love chouta? What’s a ‘bunnies?’”

2 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Finally, I would like to order some cremling chouta from @Herowannabe. 

“Coming right up!” Nabbers loads some flatbread up with meat and gravy, then begins searching around on the ground, muttering to himself, “I know I saw one around here somewhere... Aha!” He spots a cremling on the ground and chases after it. The cremling, seeming to sense what was coming, skitters off into an alleyway, followed by Nabber. 

A minute later Nabbers emerges from the alley, triumphantly holding out the chouta, which now has several cremling legs sticking out of it. Some of them are still twitching. “Here you go! One cremling chouta. That will be 3 clear chips on account of the extra toppings, please.”

---

As for the current discussion surrounding @Eternum, I could be persuaded to throw my vote on him. Not for the reasons that @Amanuensis or @Kynedath have said, but rather, how quick he was to get Village reads on other players. One of the easiest ways to gain a little trust as an eliminator is to get “Village reads” on players, because as an eliminator you already know who is Village and who isn’t. 

Now all three of us could be reading a lot into nothing, in fact we probably are, but well, that’s first cycle lynching for ya. *shrug* 

Orlok Tsubodai  

Eternum  

[Eternum]

I just woke up, y'all. It's not nice to start a lynch on someone behind his back

Anyway, @Amanuensis @Herowannabe, time to address your points.

3 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

;Honestly I could dig into a few things like emphasis of cluelessness at the start and the minimal purpose vote at the end, but in general it's the safeness of this post that bothers me.

What do eliminators want to do? Blend. What's the best way for them to do that? Echo the comments of others with few-to-none personal thoughts. That's how I feel about his paragraphs on Orlok, Stink and Drought at least. I really need to see more of what's going on in his noggin, otherwise it's hard for me not to look at this and see someone trying to hide in plain sight

I.. think I've really always been a "safe" player. The only times I remember having taken any big risks were Joe's Gunnerkrigg LG and Seonid's Blackout. (i can never for the life of me remember game numbers.)

Back to the point, I just like to take things slow. At that point in the game I only had tentative reads based on actions, and those had been expressed before me. I found it worth posting about anyway, because I didn't have much more to say. My vote on Legend was me trying to contribute, at least as much as I could, seeing as my thoughts wouldn't help. We now know that his Wincon isn't an Elim's, so.. yay? Anyway, moving on.

16 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

As for the current discussion surrounding @Eternum, I could be persuaded to throw my vote on him. Not for the reasons that @Amanuensis or @Kynedath have said, but rather, how quick he was to get Village reads on other players. One of the easiest ways to gain a little trust as an eliminator is to get “Village reads” on players, because as an eliminator you already know who is Village and who isn’t. 

Now all three of us could be reading a lot into nothing, in fact we probably are, but well, that’s first cycle lynching for ya. *shrug* 

They're very tentative reads, and I failed to emphasize that. Generating discussion in a blackout game is commendable, as I said. I wouldn't vouch for either, not yet, and I'd, honestly, rather lynch one of them than have myself lynched, but still.

Speaking of reads, Aman, how is my read, or lack of one, on Drought "blending in"?

Edited March 25, 2018 by Eternum

[Herowannabe]

Oh wait what am I doing, I can’t vote for Eternum! Not because of anything he said in his defense (none of which did anything to sway my opinion), but rather because he knows some fantastic one-armed Herdazian jokes!  Anyone who can joke about one-armed Herdazians is alright in my books. Here @Eternum, have some chouta, on me. 

[Eternum]

Pfft. I tried, anyway. Chouta's good too, though 

Oh, and, I forgot to retract my vote on Livinglegend.

[Madagascar]

2 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

That is hilariously embarrassing  I really thought LL posted before Eternum voted for him. Sorry for my I blatant ineptitude and unintentional hypocrisy 

Also *makes sure innocent bystander is okay before picking up the pig* this little guy is mine now, and his name is Hypo. We will be the best of friends 

Yeah, sure, keep the pig. It's definitely not trained to monitor your actions, movements, and biodata constantly and relay data back to me for analysis. Careful what you feed it though ... it's a real farter. I just noticed the drake guy showed up, so suppose I should retract in order to avoid becoming an inept unintentional hypocrite myself as poking him is unnecessary at this point. Fun, yes, but unnecessary.

2 minutes ago, Eternum said:

My vote on Legend was me trying to contribute, at least as much as I could, seeing as my thoughts wouldn't help. We now know that his Wincon isn't an Elim's, so.. yay? Anyway, moving on.

1

Did I miss something? Since when are we taking people's word for things like that? I feel like this isn't the first time someone's said something like this. Also, er, you're still voting for someone you're saying isn't an elim. Ol' Mapadonet's sorry if she's bein' thick, but she don't understand.

*people type while Mapadonet is typing* Oh. Never mind then.

I have a very important presentation on pig science tomorrow so ... I must go. *disappears gracefully into the mist* Farewell. *sounds of tripping and a loud splat sound* Storm it.

 

[Eternum]

1 minute ago, Madagascar said:

Did I miss something? Since when are we taking people's word for things like that? I feel like this isn't the first time someone's said something like this.

I'm not saying he's not elim, or that I trust his word-- he could very easily be lying, hence my (not very well-expressed) reluctance. Should have worded that better, but really why would he lie about that? It's easier to just claim Villager, in this situation.

[STINK]

9 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

One of those is Kynedath. The other is Steelrunner.

It's been a very long time since I've played with Kyn (or anyone here really) and although I'm very excited to see him back, I'm not getting the best of vibes from him. Whats triggering me specifically is how "clinical" his posts feel. Phrasing seems very careful and the words are clean, organized. Less like natural train of thought and more like "I need to sell this image" and he's trying a bit too hard.

Could totally be a persona thing, honestly. But without prior context and significant content now, I'm leaning in the "Kill Kyn" direction because I've seen many eliminators behave similarly and have even done it myself.

Anyone else agree? Or more importantly, reading him village? If so please tell me why and cite specifics if possible.

Gotta say this is the norm with Kyn, so isn't really alignment indicative. I know 'cause of my like many PMs with him over games where every time this'll come up

9 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Here is our (very spread out) vote tally.

Drought(1): Stink, Orlok
Fifth Scholar(1): Drought, Coop772
Orlok(1): Herowannabe
Steeldancer(1): Orlok
livinglegend(1): Eternum
Drake(1): Madagascar
Elenion(0): Steeldancer, Coop772
Eternum(1): Devotary of Spontaneity

I would like to nominate Eternum for the lynch.

Can you explain why this being a blackout game guarantees a random lynch? It's true that we don't know how many eliminators there are, but that's the case in every other game as well.

I like you. Keep this vote tally thing up and you can go to great places, my friend. 

Also I would agree that this being a blackout game does make the D1 lynch more of a 'random' thing than it would be in a game where we had all the information, as we don't even know if we're looking for like the right or wrong thing and then you add neutrals and it's just like wew boy time to take it slowly. In other games, you can at least make an informed guess at what the distribution is likely to be from knowing what kind of roles there is and like the power level of a possible elim team while we don't even have that.

So saying a D1 lynch is random is cool by me. 'Cause they basically always are.

8 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

In fact I like it enough to follow up his post and vote on Eternum with a vote of my own. It's the same post that caught my attention, though for a different reason.

Honestly I could dig into a few things like emphasis of cluelessness at the start and the minimal purpose vote at the end, but in general it's the safeness of this post that bothers me.

What do eliminators want to do? Blend. What's the best way for them to do that? Echo the comments of others with few-to-none personal thoughts. That's how I feel about his paragraphs on Orlok, Stink and Drought at least. I really need to see more of what's going on in his noggin, otherwise it's hard for me not to look at this and see someone trying to hide in plain sight

Plus there's the fact livinglegend did post and he's voting for him because he seems not to have. If you'e going to vote at least get your facts straight 

But no. Real talk, that makes me think he's just going through the motions. Which makes me think he's content to sit back and do whatever. Which makes me think he's evil

I dunno 'bout you, but there's been a fair few posts in this thread where people are playing it safe. Understandable, being lynched D1 for something random sucks. I was actually gonna say something here but I've forgot it over breakfast, so I should really shorten this quote box. Ah well, enjoy reading the quoted post again?

7 hours ago, Kynedath said:

I'll just address this quickly. First off, it's good to see you again too Aman! It's good to be back in SE after a break (for the second time actually).

I like words and how they work together. My ELA mark ended at a 95% and I like to think that my vocabulary is fairly sophisticated. Unfortunately, this post isn't helping me because you reminded me of my structured writing style and now I believe that I'm exaggerating it slightly. In addition, my posts tend to seem stiff and clinical due to my affinity for mathematics and a very linear way of thinking. My strengths include statistics and finding evidence based off of extended "what if" situations. Honestly, I'm practically useless when it comes to gut reads and behavioral speculation.

And honestly, I treat these games like a debate. My goal is to try and convince the other players that my evidence is correct and that my assumptions are sound. I have found that the best way to do that is to formulate strong arguments that accurately articulate my points. I apologize if I go overboard sometimes, but every time I write a post, I feel like I am writing a miniature essay.

On the topic of Eternum (since they are the ones currently up for lynch) I disagree that their "sense of cluelessness" indicates any link to eliminator behavior. I am frustrated too and I dislike not knowing how everything works. It's an understandable feeling.

Aman, your next comment was on his stance concerning the discussion that was going on. You say that he seemed like he was trying to blend in, and this I believe is more credible. It's a very common tactic. On the other hand, it could just be that his feelings match those of the others in the thread. This is a game with a very small amount of information, and there are only so many stances to be had on a piece of info. Considering we have no definitive way of telling which statement is true, I don't think this is sufficient evidence.

However, Devotary makes a point that I find compelling. I'm also curious to see why they think that the only thing we can do is lynch randomly. Voting patterns and player behavior are the principle methods with which to determine whom to vote for. Those have not been taken away from us, only knowledge of what can happen due to roles, as well as the details of the eliminator team.

And just as a preventative argument that I know will come up for some reason, I'm not voting on them because I do not wish to participate in D1 lynches. You can look back into any game I've been in and see that this holds true. I believe that killing someone right out of the gate deprives them of some of the fun of playing SE. I've been killed day 1 and it wasn't fun. That being said, I will not try to convince anyone else to not vote since I recognize that D1 lynches are necessary for gathering information.

Gaze upon the non-alignment indicative language, and know that which is something. 

@Kynedath, what's an ELA mark? 

And on to the game stuff in the post, a quick thingy:

1. Yes to Kyn's Yessing of Eternum
2. Yes to Kyn's Noing of Aman Noing Eternum.
3. Sidenote, you'll never have sufficient evidence for a lynch on D1.
4. Kinda-Yes to Kyn's Yessing of DoS. While voting patterns and player behaviour are great for votes, we don't really have any on D1.
5. Understandable to not vote D1.

I was also gonna say something here, but blame the bacon for making me forget some stuff while I ate it.

Honestly don't know if this post is worth anything anymore, maybe I'm just trying to blend in and hide behind people who even knows

[Herowannabe]

10 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Also *makes sure innocent bystander is okay before picking up the pig* this little guy is mine now, and his name is Hypo. We will be the best of friends 

 

7 hours ago, Madagascar said:

Yeah, sure, keep the pig. It's definitely not trained to monitor your actions, movements, and biodata constantly and relay data back to me for analysis.

Hey, can I get one of those pigs, too? Purely for friendship reasons, of course! *Nabbers eyes a fat pig greedily*

[Stick.]

22 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I also get the vibe that Stink is acting as stink usually does. In fact, is everyone just kind of doing whatever? Because mage is talking about pigs, stink about fish, and now I'm hungry.

Mage? Mage isn't even playing  You mean Madagascar.

21 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

I’d just like to point out that most of the time, even if you’re leaning very heavily on someone being Village, if you reveal to them then the eliminators are going to find out about it. For proof, I'd like to cite pretty much all of the Anniversary Games (and most of the regular games, too). 

Also, just because someone “trusts” you enough to “reveal” their role to you, that doesn’t mean you should trust them or reveal to them in turn. They could easily be an eliminator in villagers clothing. 

This is true.

17 hours ago, Eternum said:

Man, I don't even know where to start with this game. We literally know nothing. A random lynch is all we can hope for, unless someone slips, and we're not even sure how many elims there are, or even how many elim factions. (Seonid's Reckoners Blackout had.. 2, if I recall correctly.)

Tentative village read on Orlok. Generating discussion, and trying to get a lynch going. This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

I have a village read on Stink, too. Our PM is entirely NAI so far, but they've also been trying to generate discussion, and made good points regarding Fifth, Kyne and Stick. 

Drought I'm not very sure of, right now. Never can seem to get a good read on him at all.

More thoughts to come, after I've read the thread so far carefully.

Gonna place a poke-vote on Livinglegend ( @livinglegend), because they don't seem to have posted yet.

Your point about a random lynch is something I disagree with; we may base our votes on slight suspicions or bad reasons but it certainly won't be random. Also, I think it's should be noted that you've mentioned that a random lynch is all we can hope for two times in the same post. It doesn't seem...natural? Yeah. Like your worried people would be suspicious of you if you're part of a lynch that turns out to be on a villager.

Kynedath's post seems village to me.

8 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

As for the current discussion surrounding @Eternum, I could be persuaded to throw my vote on him. Not for the reasons that @Amanuensis or @Kynedath have said, but rather, how quick he was to get Village reads on other players. One of the easiest ways to gain a little trust as an eliminator is to get “Village reads” on players, because as an eliminator you already know who is Village and who isn’t. 

I would argue that finding elims via narrowing down the list of possible elims by developing village reads on players is a common method (also called PoE - Process of Elimination, iirc). 

[Madagascar]

I'm kind of in a rush, but for now I'll vote Eternum. The pigs *hiccup* still don't understand this:

8 hours ago, Eternum said:

I'm not saying he's not elim, or that I trust his word-- he could very easily be lying, hence my (not very well-expressed) reluctance. Should have worded that better, but really why would he lie about that? It's easier to just claim Villager, in this situation.

All Legend said was that he "didn't have an eliminator condition," which I think is reasonable for everyone here to say, truthfully or not. But I am not sure what you're saying: first you say he could easily be lying, then you ask why he would lie and imply he wouldn't bother? But wouldn't eliminators obviously lie, because we're trying to kill them for delicious chouta? Furthermore, didn't he already claim villager (or non-baddy person)? It sort of feels like you're trying to backpedal more than clarify here. This is mostly a hunch, but I've *hiccup* voted on less before. I may just be acting rashly out of confusion,  but, well, the pigs are confused ... when they get confused they get bitey ... I don't want them to turn on me...

[Eternum]

16 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Your point about a random lynch is something I disagree with; we may base our votes on slight suspicions or bad reasons but it certainly won't be random. Also, I think it's should be noted that you've mentioned that a random lynch is all we can hope for two times in the same post. It doesn't seem...natural? Yeah. Like your worried people would be suspicious of you if you're part of a lynch that turns out to be on a villager.

First off, I never said that this will be completely random. "..unless someone slips..." Was me trying to say that all we have to go on is analyzing behavior, and as you can see from the bandwagon that's happening on me, this means of rooting out elims is generally fickle, to say the least.

As for the repetiton, that's just a problem of mine. I tend to repeat myself when I write things down, especially on mobile where I can't see everything at the same time (and I've been using mobile for the entirety of this cycle), so much so that I've begun to triple-check my posts for said repetition. The post you quoted was typed out in a hurry. It's a quirk of mine, and a genuine mistake.

Storms, but I don't think I can offer much more in evidence to my being a villager. I'll leave this up to everyone's hands. Don't really know who to vote for, but I also don't want to die

Surprised I didn't notice Devotary's post before Aman's-- it didn't show up in my notifications. But yeah, @STINK described my thought process there pretty well anyway.

@Ecthelion III @The_Lady_of_Chaos, neither of you has posted yet. Care to chime in?

EDIT: @Madagascar, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say there. I mean that he could be lying, but what would be the point in that? Claiming villager is easier than claiming neutral, and not claiming at all is a lot more simpler than either of those options. So that makes me think that he's probably telling the truth about being neutral, or even part of another faction other than the Citizens.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Eternum

[Stick.]

10 minutes ago, Eternum said:

First off, I never said that this will be completely random. "..unless someone slips..." Was me trying to say that all we have to go on is analyzing behavior, and as you can see from the bandwagon that's happening on me, this means of rooting out elims is generally fickle, to say the least.

As for the repetiton, that's just a problem of mine. I tend to repeat myself when I write things down, especially on mobile where I can't see everything at the same time (and I've been using mobile for the entirety of this cycle), so much so that I've begun to triple-check my posts for said repetition. The post you quoted was typed out in a hurry. It's a quirk of mine, and a genuine mistake.

Storms, but I don't think I can offer much more in evidence to my being a villager. I'll leave this up to everyone's hands. Don't really know who to vote for, but I also don't want to die

Fair, I suppose. Though I would point out that at the time of my post (and your post as well, I believe you were ninjad by Mad) there were only two votes on you and I wouldn't quite call that a 'bandwagon' but eh.

[Eternum]

Storms. I'm looking through the thread for a better lynch alternative than me, but there is none. Dying would be the end of the game for me, sure, but it would also damage the village. And then, not having a lynch at all could send us in a southbound course, bound to crash sooner or later.

Storms.

23 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Fair, I suppose. Though I would point out that at the time of my post (and your post as well, I believe you were ninjad by Mad) there were only two votes on you and I wouldn't quite call that a 'bandwagon' but eh.

Yes, I was ninjad by Mad, hence my edit. But you recognize the beginnings of a bandwagon after a few games. *Shrug*

I still have a few more hours, I suppose. Let's try and make those count.

Proceeds to promise analyzing, and then doesn't deliver, because that's an ongoing trend with me at this point >.>

[Elenion]

Due to a GM schedule conflict, this cycle will be extended by two hours past the time on the clock. Next cycle things will be back to normal.

[Kynedath]

5 hours ago, STINK said:

@Kynedath, what's an ELA mark? 

English Language Arts. Sorry for not clarifying earlier.

Not much time to post, I'll be back on before the end of the cycle since it was extended.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Going back through the thread, it seems that this is the extent of the discussion on Eternum. I’ve only had time to skim it, and haven’t yet developed an opinion on him, but would note for the record that I don’t like the feel of the bandwagon on him at present. I may well change my mind as I read through, though.

 

14 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

I would like to nominate Eternum for the lynch.

Can you explain why this being a blackout game guarantees a random lynch? It's true that we don't know how many eliminators there are, but that's the case in every other game as well.

I believe this is a reasonable question to ask, and one worth applying pressure over. I’m not sure that Eternum’s views referenced here justify a lynch on him, though. Believing that we should lynch D1 for information isn’t an unusual view, and looking for reasons to back up a previously held but unsubstantiated point isn’t an action solely undertaken by eliminators, unfortunately.

14 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

In fact I like it enough to follow up his post and vote on Eternum with a vote of my own. It's the same post that caught my attention, though for a different reason.

Honestly I could dig into a few things like emphasis of cluelessness at the start and the minimal purpose vote at the end, but in general it's the safeness of this post that bothers me.

What do eliminators want to do? Blend. What's the best way for them to do that? Echo the comments of others with few-to-none personal thoughts. That's how I feel about his paragraphs on Orlok, Stink and Drought at least. I really need to see more of what's going on in his noggin, otherwise it's hard for me not to look at this and see someone trying to hide in plain sight

Plus there's the fact livinglegend did post and he's voting for him because he seems not to have. If you'e going to vote at least get your facts straight 

But no. Real talk, that makes me think he's just going through the motions. Which makes me think he's content to sit back and do whatever. Which makes me think he's evil

Aman makes much more convincing points in this post. The cluelessness, I think he exaggerates slightly, but the lack of direction does exist, and is interesting, this being Eternum’s eleventh game.

I also agree on his comments, which I attach here:

Quote

Tentative village read on Orlok. Generating discussion, and trying to get a lynch going. This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

I have a village read on Stink, too. Our PM is entirely NAI so far, but they've also been trying to generate discussion, and made good points regarding Fifth, Kyne and Stick. 

Drought I'm not very sure of, right now. Never can seem to get a good read on him at all.

Eternum has seen me try to start a read time and time again, and knows I aim to start discussion regardless of my alignment. Village reading me on that basis, and after Steel and Kynedath read me as a villager, does strike me as pocketing and trying to join a consensus.

Eternum also village reads Stink for generating discussion. Eternum has only played two games with Stink - QF25 and LG37, but in both games Stink made a real effort to generate discussion, and was evil in QF25. Generating discussion is to me entirely NAI, but is a safe thing to comment on.

14 hours ago, Madagascar said:

*throw a pig vaguely towards Amanuensis, hits innocent bystander instead* Can you clarify this statement? According to me verrah scientific chart, the legend feller posted two hours ago, while the eternity feller voted fer him six hours ago. My keen mathematical alpigra abilities make me think that two is less than six, which makes me suspect Eternity posted before livinglegend did, makin' the claim he was lurkin' true at the time, but in your statement you seem to imply the reverse. Your "real talk" comment makes me think if you meant that as a joke, but if so the pigs find it a confusing one. I mean, like you said, if we're gonna be votin' to have each other made into delicious chouta, we should at least have our facts straight.

Madagascar challenges a time keeping mistake in Aman’s post, but doesn’t seem to engage with the more substantive elements of Aman’s suspicion of Eternum. If I were to put my tin foil hat on, I’d wonder whether this was an attempt to avoid building too much of an association with Eternum, whilst trying to undermine the momentum of the Eternum lynch. 

14 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

That is hilariously embarrassing  I really thought LL posted before Eternum voted for him. Sorry for my I blatant ineptitude and unintentional hypocrisy 

Aman’s response here acknowledges his mistake, but doesn’t retract his vote. This is entirely NAI to me - Madagascar’s point didn’t address the core of Aman’s suspicion on Eternum.

11 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

As for the current discussion surrounding @Eternum, I could be persuaded to throw my vote on him. Not for the reasons that @Amanuensis or @Kynedath have said, but rather, how quick he was to get Village reads on other players. One of the easiest ways to gain a little trust as an eliminator is to get “Village reads” on players, because as an eliminator you already know who is Village and who isn’t. 

Now all three of us could be reading a lot into nothing, in fact we probably are, but well, that’s first cycle lynching for ya. *shrug* 

Orlok Tsubodai  

Eternum  

I’m interested as to why Hero chose to focus his time exclusively on Eternum. Although he produced new reasons, indicating that he is engaging with the thread, I’m surprised that’s he only has comments on Eternum. This makes me wonder whether he’d already decided that Eternum was an acceptable lynch, and looked for reasons to contribute to it. Further, with Kynedath and Aman’s support, supporting the lynch becomes a relatively safe place to be. I think that following this post I’m slightly suspicious of Hero.

11 hours ago, Eternum said:

I just woke up, y'all. It's not nice to start a lynch on someone behind his back

Anyway, @Amanuensis @Herowannabe, time to address your points.

I.. think I've really always been a "safe" player. The only times I remember having taken any big risks were Joe's Gunnerkrigg LG and Seonid's Blackout. (i can never for the life of me remember game numbers.)

Back to the point, I just like to take things slow. At that point in the game I only had tentative reads based on actions, and those had been expressed before me. I found it worth posting about anyway, because I didn't have much more to say. My vote on Legend was me trying to contribute, at least as much as I could, seeing as my thoughts wouldn't help. We now know that his Wincon isn't an Elim's, so.. yay? Anyway, moving on.

They're very tentative reads, and I failed to emphasize that. Generating discussion in a blackout game is commendable, as I said. I wouldn't vouch for either, not yet, and I'd, honestly, rather lynch one of them than have myself lynched, but still.

Speaking of reads, Aman, how is my read, or lack of one, on Drought "blending in"?

The first thing from this post that I’d like t address is that there is a difference between playing safely, and not creating additional material/being entirely NAI in your views.

I considered that Eternum’s views might be because Stink, Drought and myself were the obvious people to comment on, but reading through the thread, before Eternum’s post Hero, Steel, Jondesu and Fifth had also made comments worth considering, yet other players hadn’t commented on them. I think with this in mind, Eternum’s focus on Stink, Drought and I does become more suspicious, and more likely to be an attempt to avoid contributing.

Eternum, to answer the second part of your post, your vote on LivingLegend was a poke vote, which doesn’t add any of your own thoughts to the thread, or put you at any risk of being analysed.

11 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Oh wait what am I doing, I can’t vote for Eternum! Not because of anything he said in his defense (none of which did anything to sway my opinion), but rather because he knows some fantastic one-armed Herdazian jokes!  Anyone who can joke about one-armed Herdazians is alright in my books. Here @Eternum, have some chouta, on me. 

Hero’s post here is unusual. He’s noted suspicion of Eternum, but is removing his vote for RP reasons (which is consistent with his retaining his vote on my for not buying Chouta). This might indicate that his desire to lynch accurately is secondary to RP. That can be read in a couple of ways. It’s a dangerous way to act, and one that might draw undue attention to him were he an eliminator, and so conventionally might be read as village indicative. Equally, Hero RPd as literally talking to Ruin in AG3, as a (spiked) eliminator, so I think the conventional analysis isn’t of much use here. Overall, I’d like more of an explanation from @Herowannabe for his vote and then retraction on Eternum.

11 hours ago, Eternum said:

Pfft. I tried, anyway. Chouta's good too, though 

Oh, and, I forgot to retract my vote on Livinglegend.

Given the degree of suspicion placed on Eternum at this stage, it’s interesting that he doesn’t seem that invested in defending himself further, but more interesting still that he doesn’t contribute any thoughts to the thread on other players, even when called out for it previously. I’m not sure how to read this. It might be a focus on defending himself has distracted him from otherwise contributing, it could be a differing playstyle, given it seems consistent over this cycle (although I can’t recall his playstyle well enough in past games), or it could be reluctance to expose himself to scrutiny.

 

11 hours ago, Madagascar said:

Quote

My vote on Legend was me trying to contribute, at least as much as I could, seeing as my thoughts wouldn't help. We now know that his Wincon isn't an Elim's, so.. yay? Anyway, moving on.

Did I miss something? Since when are we taking people's word for things like that? I feel like this isn't the first time someone's said something like this. Also, er, you're still voting for someone you're saying isn't an elim. Ol' Mapadonet's sorry if she's bein' thick, but she don't understand.

@Madagascar, could you please find the other example you allude to here? I’m not sure that I think Eternum’s actions here are overwhelmingly eliminator-ish. Being overly trusting (as appears in your quote, ignoring Eternum’s response below) is suspicious, but leaving a vote on a player you say you think isn’t an eliminator isn’t a careful move, and I’d expect Eternum to have been more careful as an eliminator.

10 hours ago, Eternum said:

I'm not saying he's not elim, or that I trust his word-- he could very easily be lying, hence my (not very well-expressed) reluctance. Should have worded that better, but really why would he lie about that? It's easier to just claim Villager, in this situation.

Eternum makes a good point here. LivingLegend is likely to draw scans and greater scrutiny for having claimed a non-eliminator win condition (and in doing so implying a non-village win condition). I don’t think an eliminator is likely to do that, but could see a villager doing so to try to persuade eliminators to claim to him. 

5 hours ago, STINK said:

Also I would agree that this being a blackout game does make the D1 lynch more of a 'random' thing than it would be in a game where we had all the information, as we don't even know if we're looking for like the right or wrong thing and then you add neutrals and it's just like wew boy time to take it slowly. In other games, you can at least make an informed guess at what the distribution is likely to be from knowing what kind of roles there is and like the power level of a possible elim team while we don't even have that.

So saying a D1 lynch is random is cool by me. 'Cause they basically always are.

I dunno 'bout you, but there's been a fair few posts in this thread where people are playing it safe. Understandable, being lynched D1 for something random sucks. I was actually gonna say something here but I've forgot it over breakfast, so I should really shorten this quote box. Ah well, enjoy reading the quoted post again?

Gaze upon the non-alignment indicative language, and know that which is something.

And on to the game stuff in the post, a quick thingy:

1. Yes to Kyn's Yessing of Eternum
2. Yes to Kyn's Noing of Aman Noing Eternum.
3. Sidenote, you'll never have sufficient evidence for a lynch on D1.

Stink disagrees with Devotary’s suspicion of Eternum over his comments on the lynch, which I think is a very reasonable view to take. I don’t think that Devotary was wrong to challenge Eternum on it, but don’t think it necessarily something to lynch Eternum over.

Stink then seems to highlight that other people have acted in a similar way to Eternum’s being safe. I had similar thoughts about Steel and Kynedath reading me as a villager. Also interesting is that Stink seems to be defending Eternum without stating that he’s doing so. Normally that would make me suspicious of a player, but I still hold my view that Stink is acting like he does as a villager, and think challenging the growing consensus on Eternum was a risky thing to do regardless.

 

3 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Quote

Man, I don't even know where to start with this game. We literally know nothing. A random lynch is all we can hope for, unless someone slips, and we're not even sure how many elims there are, or even how many elim factions. (Seonid's Reckoners Blackout had.. 2, if I recall correctly.)

Tentative village read on Orlok. Generating discussion, and trying to get a lynch going. This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

(Excerpt from quote, not worth quoting non relevant parts again)

Your point about a random lynch is something I disagree with; we may base our votes on slight suspicions or bad reasons but it certainly won't be random. Also, I think it's should be noted that you've mentioned that a random lynch is all we can hope for two times in the same post. It doesn't seem...natural? Yeah. Like your worried people would be suspicious of you if you're part of a lynch that turns out to be on a villager.

I’m not sure I agree with this post. Eternum made his point in two different contexts, and I think that was a reasonable enough thing to do. I don’t like that Stick is focusing their attention on adding suspicion to a player already under discussion. It feels like a safe thing to do, to a greater degree than Eternum’s reads.

2 hours ago, Madagascar said:

I'm kind of in a rush, but for now I'll vote Eternum. The pigs *hiccup* still don't understand this:

All Legend said was that he "didn't have an eliminator condition," which I think is reasonable for everyone here to say, truthfully or not. But I am not sure what you're saying: first you say he could easily be lying, then you ask why he would lie and imply he wouldn't bother? But wouldn't eliminators obviously lie, because we're trying to kill them for delicious chouta? Furthermore, didn't he already claim villager (or non-baddy person)? It sort of feels like you're trying to backpedal more than clarify here. This is mostly a hunch, but I've *hiccup* voted on less before. I may just be acting rashly out of confusion,  but, well, the pigs are confused ... when they get confused they get bitey ... I don't want them to turn on me...

@Madagascar, I’m reading Eternum’s actions here as more of someone under pressure than of an eliminator having made a slip up. I do think it was fair to draw something from Legend’s claim that they had a “non-eliminator” win condition. Eternum was responding to your own post presenting the leading question of whether LivingLegend could be lying, and I think it more likely that Eternum agreed with the leading question and went on to state his own views. I think it shows a genuine train of thought, and if he were eliminator, think he’d have made more of an effort to ensure consistency. This post makes me more suspicious of Madagascar, I think.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

First off, I never said that this will be completely random. "..unless someone slips..." Was me trying to say that all we have to go on is analyzing behavior, and as you can see from the bandwagon that's happening on me, this means of rooting out elims is generally fickle, to say the least.

As for the repetiton, that's just a problem of mine. I tend to repeat myself when I write things down, especially on mobile where I can't see everything at the same time (and I've been using mobile for the entirety of this cycle), so much so that I've begun to triple-check my posts for said repetition. The post you quoted was typed out in a hurry. It's a quirk of mine, and a genuine mistake.

Storms, but I don't think I can offer much more in evidence to my being a villager. I'll leave this up to everyone's hands. Don't really know who to vote for, but I also don't want to die

Surprised I didn't notice Devotary's post before Aman's-- it didn't show up in my notifications. But yeah, @STINK described my thought process there pretty well anyway.

@Ecthelion III @The_Lady_of_Chaos, neither of you has posted yet. Care to chime in?

EDIT: @Madagascar, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say there. I mean that he could be lying, but what would be the point in that? Claiming villager is easier than claiming neutral, and not claiming at all is a lot more simpler than either of those options. So that makes me think that he's probably telling the truth about being neutral, or even part of another faction other than the Citizens.

Eternum continues not adding thoughts on other players, limiting his extension of the discussion to summoning those who haven’t contributed, but I think that’s entirely fair, given the degree of discussion now focused on him. I don’t think any of his explanations here are unfair. His not offering an alternative lynch target also makes me less suspicious of him. I think if he were an eliminator, he’d be trying to get someone else lynched as an alternative to him. (As an aside, I think the lack of one emerging serves as additional evidence of his being a villager. I think his teammates would have done something other than leave him to defend himself without a contender if they existed.)

2 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Fair, I suppose. Though I would point out that at the time of my post (and your post as well, I believe you were ninjad by Mad) there were only two votes on you and I wouldn't quite call that a 'bandwagon' but eh.

@_Stick_, I think given there were thirteen posts (I haven’t quoted Kynedath’s - I must have left it on my first pass through the thread, and really don’t think it’ll add much to go back to it at this stage) focused on Eternum, with no other target being discussed, it’s fair for Eternum to consider himself the target of a bandwagon, in attention if not votes.

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

Storms. I'm looking through the thread for a better lynch alternative than me, but there is none. Dying would be the end of the game for me, sure, but it would also damage the village. And then, not having a lynch at all could send us in a southbound course, bound to crash sooner or later.

Storms.

Yes, I was ninjad by Mad, hence my edit. But you recognize the beginnings of a bandwagon after a few games. *Shrug*

I still have a few more hours, I suppose. Let's try and make those count.

Proceeds to promise analyzing, and then doesn't deliver, because that's an ongoing trend with me at this point >.>

Again, I think we’re Eternum an eliminator, we would see something more than defending himself. We’re now an hour from the original end to the cycle, and no alternative lynch target has emerged, and I don’t think anyone has tried to build suspicion against other players without voting. This post also reads to me as village!Eternum.

Overall, I’m suspicious of the bandwagon against Eternum. @Devotary of Spontaneity had a valid question, but I’m surprised and suspicious that they haven’t said anything since the lynch began building. I’m not sure their question was worth lynching Eternum over, and their silence as more was added to the discussion seems like an attempt to kill a villager without engaging in the discussion.

For the reasons stated above, I’m also suspicious of @Herowannabe, and @Madagascar, for their own contributions to the discussion. Hero focuses exclusively on Eternum, and then drops their vote for RP reasons, and Madagascar seems to be pressuring Eternum and ignoring the circumstances of his statements to further her own points.

I think that Stick is being incredibly safe in their attacks on Eternum, to a greater degree than Eternum’s own actions resulting in votes.

For now, I’m going to vote on Madagascar, for the twisting of Eternum’s situation, but would happily vote for any of Madagascar, Hero, and Stick.

[STINK]

19 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Also interesting is that Stink seems to be defending Eternum without stating that he’s doing so.

I can try and summarise all my posts with an initial statement of what the post is if ya want

Also I'm still keeping my vote on Drought 'cause where are you @Droughtbringer I haven't seen ya in a while.

[Jondesu]

@Amanuensis, Hero was a semi-random choice as a poke vote. No particular reason, but if I’m going to try a poke vote, I wanted it to have more to it than just “Are you here?”

[Eternum]

Alright, everyone! I actually did a thing!

Here goes! I won't be able to get all the quotes necessary for this post, but I'll try to provide context when needed. I'm also on mobile, though, so I'll have to keep things short. I won't be addressing things others have said already unless it's important, or I just didn't notice they were mentioned. Some people will be left out, too-- I want to post this before rollover

Starting with...

Devotary:

They've contributed to the game a fair bit, directly or indirectly, despite having a relatively low number of posts. At first, they assume immediately that Neutral factions/players would have conflicting wincons with the village, something that we know is untrue from the rules. Could mean they're a villager, because they would have likely been informed by their elim allies (I'm basing my assumptions on an ordinary elim faction, btw.) in the doc before making the post, if they were an elim. They then proceed to create essentially the rest of the discussion for the cycle by voting on me on admittedly good grounds. So far, village read. Can't be neutral, at the very least.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Jon:

At the beginning, they poke and ask about Hero in particular. It's weird, but NAI. I'd like to know exactly why he did that. @Jondesu, care to elaborate? (Your post appeared just as I was finishing up. Dangit, man.) Jon then proceeds to point out DoS's assumption, and disagrees, but does not quote the rules. It could mean they're assuming what they're saying, or it could mean that they know better. So far, entirely NAI.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Steel:

Steel goes along with Orlok's oddly terse votes without much actual reason to, but that's not indicative nor important. Steel is also awfully blunt, possibly honest. That makes me lean village on them, if slightly.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Kyne:

Doesn't want to participate in a D1 lynch. Understandable, considering how divided the community in general is about these. However, the fact that they acknowledge that the lynch is the best means we have of gathering information right now, and actually not advocating against it, makes me lean village on them. A commendable, if futile, attempt to make the game more fun for everyone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Livinglegend:

Neutral, possibly. The way they worded it could also mean they're village, but why not say it straight-out in that case? @livinglegend I'd appreciate it if you could go into more detail regarding your win con. More importantly, are you, in fact, Neutral?

Either way, if telling the truth, could be a valuable asset to both sides. I'd like to ask you to help the village, out here in the open. I can't exactly ensure your survival-- I honestly can't ensure mine-- but you have a better chance of winning with the village than with the elims, probably. If you're even telling the truth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Stick: 

Seems to be trying to push the idea of an elim converter faction. As Orlok pointed out, they seem to be trying to garner suspicion on me without actually comitting to the lynch. Distancing themselves from it, perhaps. Not something I would see a villager doing. If an elim, could mean that there's at the very least one other elim trying to lynch me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Coop:

Trusts Hero immediately, or seems to. Also seems to imply they roleclaimed to him, but that's very likely me reading too deep into his word choices. Not sure, so far.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Aman:

At first, he theorizes about the game mechanics. Mostly NAI, but seems to just be filler. Considering the rest of this post, it probably is. He then proceeds to point out Kyne's "tidiness", which feels like a very moot point. Then talks about Steel being very blunt, and retracts his suspicion afterwards. Essentially just one big post of filler. 

He seems to kick into gear when DoS presents me as a lynch target. Reorienting himself, he commits fully, which could mean multiple things. Leaning elim, right now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mad:

Orlok mentioned everything I would have, with one exception. They are keeping their vote on me, even after I responded to their inquiry. They might not have seen my response, but at least they could explain why they still want to lynch me. I'd even accept agreeing with Aman, at this point

Having tired my fingers out by typing this out on mobile, I'll vote on Madagascar, because they're both my (second) highest suspicion right now and the most likely lynch subject aside from me, right now.

With that, I bid you all adieu for the night. (This is a lie. I'll be lurking. Watch out. )

Edit: If someone finds any typos, please point them out to me. I'm tired of reading my own post...

Edited March 25, 2018 by Eternum

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

5 hours ago, Eternum said:

First off, I never said that this will be completely random. "..unless someone slips..." Was me trying to say that all we have to go on is analyzing behavior, and as you can see from the bandwagon that's happening on me, this means of rooting out elims is generally fickle, to say the least.

Fair enough. Analyzing behavior is always going to be the main method of finding elims, but I see that I overemphasized the initial part of your statement.

8 hours ago, STINK said:

Also I would agree that this being a blackout game does make the D1 lynch more of a 'random' thing than it would be in a game where we had all the information, as we don't even know if we're looking for like the right or wrong thing and then you add neutrals and it's just like wew boy time to take it slowly. In other games, you can at least make an informed guess at what the distribution is likely to be from knowing what kind of roles there is and like the power level of a possible elim team while we don't even have that.

So saying a D1 lynch is random is cool by me. 'Cause they basically always are.

D1 lynches are unreliable, but they don't have to be random. Blackout makes it harder because we don't know whether the elim(s) have teammates who will defend them, but that doesn't mean we can't have valid suspicions, especially with 31/2 pages of discussion so far.

1 hour ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Overall, I’m suspicious of the bandwagon against Eternum. [Devotary] had a valid question, but I’m surprised and suspicious that they haven’t said anything since the lynch began building. I’m not sure their question was worth lynching Eternum over, and their silence as more was added to the discussion seems like an attempt to kill a villager without engaging in the discussion.

I probably should have responded before now, but I didn't want to take my vote off of Eternum until I found another viable lynch target. It usually takes me at least an hour to find someone worth lynching, and I haven't had that amount of time since Eternum responded to my question. And then it turns out that I'm not voting now anyway, so I really should have posted sooner.

Eternum. 

We still have almost 3 hours left in the cycle, which should be enough time for @Madagascar to respond to the two votes on her. I would like to see her response before making a final vote, so I'll leave a tie for now. I will be back on before the end of the day.

 Here are your clear chips, @Herowannabe.

[Kynedath]

Storms, I thought I was going to have more time to look at the novels of arguments and comments that Orlok and Eternum posted, but I'm swamped with family matters. Deepest apologies, but I'll be back after rollover.

[Fifth Scholar]

Okay. I have a lynch suggestion, which is hopefully better than Eternum or Madagascar (because while I understand concerns about her, I have a strong enough village feel from her posts that I’m reticent to lynch her).  

Said lynch suggestion is Drought. Behold his posts. 

Quote

Yeah, it really is a shame I'm evil :/

Sarcastic refutation of STINK’s assertion that he’s evil, but at the same time it feels like he’s trying to make this too offhand and casual, to project the feeling that he doesn’t care about STINK’s accusation. Normally, I’d call this NAI, but it’s actually giving me a bit of an elim-y vibe.

Quote

Woah, so you state that you agree with STINK, and that I am an elim, and then you don't place a vote? That is very, very elimish, Fifth Scholar

Joke vote, albeit never retracted. And again, the humor feels a bit forced. 

Drought then disappears for the rest of the cycle, after sending a few PMs. So he dropped in early, made two sarcastic comments, and then never bothers to check in again? Even if he isn’t an Elim, this isn’t the greatest kind of activity to encourage. And neither of those comments particularly helped the village or advanced discussion.

Anyone like to join me in a Drought lynch?

[Orlok Tsubodai]

On 24/03/2018 at 4:59 PM, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I’ve got a village read on Stink, both from the thread and my PM, and on reflection think Drought is unlikely to have exposed himself to the degree he did were he not a villager.

 

3 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Okay. I have a lynch suggestion, which is hopefully better than Eternum or Madagascar (because while I understand concerns about her, I have a strong enough village feel from her posts that I’m reticent to lynch her).  

Said lynch suggestion is Drought. Behold his posts. 

Sarcastic refutation of STINK’s assertion that he’s evil, but at the same time it feels like he’s trying to make this too offhand and casual, to project the feeling that he doesn’t care about STINK’s accusation. Normally, I’d call this NAI, but it’s actually giving me a bit of an elim-y vibe.

Joke vote, albeit never retracted. And again, the humor feels a bit forced. 

Drought then disappears for the rest of the cycle, after sending a few PMs. So he dropped in early, made two sarcastic comments, and then never bothers to check in again? Even if he isn’t an Elim, this isn’t the greatest kind of activity to encourage. And neither of those comments particularly helped the village or advanced discussion.

Anyone like to join me in a Drought lynch?

@Fifth Scholar, I maintain my village read on Drought, for the reasons I set out above. I’m interesting in why you’re so sure Madagascar isn’t an eliminator. Would you mind explaining from where you get the village feel from her posts? Your thoughts on lynching Hero or Stick instead?