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Mid-Range Game 28: Knives in the Dark


Elenion

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2 minutes ago, STINK said:

Anything else to add? :P

Um.  I agree that Drought's aquatic appearances make him quite distrustful.

And I'm getting elimy vibes from @Ecthelion III's quietness. (Not really, this is merely a poke.)

On a more serious note, I haven't really developed any suspicions yet (hence no vote), though I'm going to see if I can get anything useful from PMs. However, I wouldn't expect solid suspicious from anybody on the first cycle of the game.

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18 hours ago, Elenion said:

There is at least 1 Evil player at the start of the game. Evil players can be on their own or in factions.

Alright guys so since this thread is getting quite samey, I'm gonna bring up something here.

You see this quote here? I mean hopefully you have, because then you'd have read the rules before signing up but that's beyond the point. 

When I first read that, I'm sure that I like others assumed that due to the wording of this rule, it's obvious that the game is gonna start with one Evil player or something like that, right? Well, I'm gonna say now that it was a mistake for me to assume that at this point of the game, and so I hope for anyone else to have this view to maybe like quickly get rid of it from their mental notes or physical notes or whatever.

So I'm not gonna see the game rn as 'X number of Neutral Players, 1 Evil Player and (Total - X - 1) number of Good Players' but instead 'X number of Neutral Players, Y Evil Players and (Total - X - Y) number of Good Players'.

So when I look back at the thread to kinda apply that to any posts relating to such a matter, it seems that:

  • Fifth and Kynedath use the term 'elims' implying that they are all for their being multiple starting elims.
  • Stick is for there being conversions, and seems to also do what I did in leaping from there being at least one elim to there being one elim who will have extra help in some way.

Otherwise, no-one else has really commented on their thoughts in this topic, so we could start a somewhat worthwhile conversation about a likely distribution if anybody wants to pick this up or something.

ALSO OF NOTE TO PEOPLE SO CAPS AND A LINE UNDERNEATH

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlimited PMs are cool and all and I love using them to chat to people and stuff, but everyone's main priority should still be mostly conversation in the thread. A game where most people are PMing each other and the thread isn't being used much is active, but is that activity as worthwhile as when everyone is active in the thread instead? Or even better, both at the same time?

Anyway, this is getting kinda long so Imma just leave this here as well for someone like Orlok to pick up and be all like 'word'.

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I'm curious why Orlok is saying so little. One word votes? This is not the Orlok I know! However, i don't find it suspicious, because it seems too obvious a thing for Orlok to let slip. 

I also get the vibe that Stink is acting as stink usually does. In fact, is everyone just kind of doing whatever? Because mage is talking about pigs, stink about fish, and now I'm hungry. 

In fact, if everyone is patronizing animals, I'm bringing back an old favorite- rabbits. :P

Edited by Steeldancer
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Nabbers scratched his head in befuddlement. Not only had Brightlord Tekiel (@Orlok Tsubodai) admitted out loud that he was cranky enough to murder someone on a whim and without explanation, he hadn’t bought any chouta, either! In fact most people hadn’t yet tried any chouta. At this rate everyone in the square was going to start murdering each other before the day ended. If Nabbers didn’t do something to stop it, in a week or two there might not be anyone left still alive to buy his chouta! :blink:

Taking a deep breath, Nabbers bellowed loud enough for everyone in the square to hear him, “CHOUTA! GET YOUR CHOUTA! You want fish chouta? I got some steaming hot and ready to eat! Pig chouta? I got your pig chouta! Rabbit chouta? Well... I ain’t ever heard of anything called a rabbit, but if’n you bring me a rabbit, I’ll make chouta outta it, too!”

5 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

The possibility of conversions should only make us more wary about claiming). That is to say, don't role-claim to anybody right away, only do it if you're very heavily leaning village on them. That's what I plan on doing anyway :P.

I’d just like to point out that most of the time, even if you’re leaning very heavily on someone being Village, if you reveal to them then the eliminators are going to find out about it. For proof, I'd like to cite pretty much all of the Anniversary Games (and most of the regular games, too). 

Also, just because someone “trusts” you enough to “reveal” their role to you, that doesn’t mean you should trust them or reveal to them in turn. They could easily be an eliminator in villagers clothing. 

Edited by Herowannabe
Correcting auto-correct
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6 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

Apologies, Hero. I was indeed “cranky” at the time of the vote, and had not had a good day. Regardless, I did have reason for both the vote and its delivery. I wanted additional pressure placed on Drought; thought it’d be interesting to see who responded to a vote of that nature, and how they did so; and wanted to see whether anyone jumped in to protect Drought or to offer other targets.

Being in better spirits now than last night, I recognise the delivery of my vote wasn’t terribly helpful. Whilst less useful with my intentions known, I will maintain my vote on Drought.

 

22 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Nabbers scratched his head in befuddlement. Not only had Brightlord Tekiel (@Orlok Tsubodai) admitted out loud that he was cranky enough to murder someone on a whim and without explanation, he hadn’t bought any chouta, either!

@Herowannabe, as above, I did indeed give an explanation for my vote, and for the delivery of my vote. It has been interesting to see how people have reacted to it, and adding fluff to a vote merely to increase pressure isn’t of massive use to the village.

1 hour ago, Steeldancer said:

I'm curious why Orlok is saying so little. One word votes? This is not the Orlok I know! However, i don't find it suspicious, because it seems too obvious a thing for Orlok to let slip.

My vote created discussion, Steeldancer, which I’d like to think is a hallmark of how I act in most games. I’ll leave my vote on you for now, as I’d like to see a greater degree of analysis or provision of opinions to the thread before I consider removing it. Commenting on Stink’s playstyle seems like a fine way to be present without contributing.

I’ve got a village read on Stink, both from the thread and my PM, and on reflection think Drought is unlikely to have exposed himself to the degree he did were he not a villager.

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I tried to make an RP post, but I can't quite seem to get down what I mean into that format. Sorry Herowannabe, otherwise I would totally respond to your RP.

On serious matters, Steel seems to me to be acting erratically, but not in any suspicious way. Orlok right now is giving me slight village vibes on account of his unique yet efficient way of generating discussion and gathering information. I'm inclined to agree with him in regards to STINK as well, his PM and general demeanor make me read him as village a little. Drought has seemingly disappeared, but we still have an entire day for him to show up again

Storms, I hate having to analyze things based on player behavior. Blackout games take away my ability to determine statistics and role-based analysis.

STINK does bring up a good point. I see basically two likely options for the starting eliminator team/teams. 

  1. There is one elim who can recruit players as the game goes on.
  2. There is a standard eliminator team with no recruitment abilities.

In option 1, there is also the possibility of a small team with limited recruitment abilities or the possibility of maybe two different teams with this ability. In any case in option 1, trust should be very limited since recruitment could turn someone who you trusted into an eliminator. I do not plan on claiming anything to anyone until we have a good grasp on the situation, and even then maybe I won't. I've never really been one to use PMs to their full potential, and even now I don't think I will use it as much as everyone else. The more public information we have, the better chance we have against the eliminators.

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Man, I don't even know where to start with this game. We literally know nothing. A random lynch is all we can hope for, unless someone slips, and we're not even sure how many elims there are, or even how many elim factions. (Seonid's Reckoners Blackout had.. 2, if I recall correctly.)

Tentative village read on Orlok. Generating discussion, and trying to get a lynch going. This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

I have a village read on Stink, too. Our PM is entirely NAI so far, but they've also been trying to generate discussion, and made good points regarding Fifth, Kyne and Stick. 

Drought I'm not very sure of, right now. Never can seem to get a good read on him at all.

More thoughts to come, after I've read the thread so far carefully.

Gonna place a poke-vote on Livinglegend ( @livinglegend), because they don't seem to have posted yet.

Edited by Eternum
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For those who've already PM'd me, I'm personally going to refrain from using them for now. I don't have a ton of time available so I would rather dedicate it here.

Blackout games and faction games are literally the bane of my existence :rolleyes: the first because of how much my process relies on confirmable information, the second because of my tendency of being ganged up on :P I'm hoping this isn't a case of both, but it might be wise to plan for the worst.

I'm choosing to act under the assumption that there is a (somewhat) traditional team of eliminators. If there is a converter as well, hopefully we'll be made aware of that in future write up.

I'll post again with a vote after I comb through the thread again and take some notes.

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Well, the pigs came back with their initial forensic results. Unfortunately, they ate those results before I could read them. They have received an official reprimand. They are bad pigs and do not deserve chouta! But I will give it to them anyway, because seriously, look at their adorable little eyes. If you haven't gotten your payment yet, Hero, just ring the university up again and refuse to leave until they take care of my tab. Sometimes they'll act indignant and act like they have no idea what you're talking about, but they're just big kidders, so be persistent.

I don't find the stinky fellow much suspicious right now, though as a pig researcher I have a bias towards stinky people. If he had anything powerful against the drought guy, I think he would be putting it forward, although it is true ... droughts are very bad for the environment. So I think Stink is chaotic, crazy, insane. A kindred spirit. But this has been well rehashed already.

For now, I shall direct the pigs to bite the Drake fella, because the pigs are hungry and get bitey when they don't get fed to promote activity and increase discussion helpful to the village. Data is necessary for forensic investigation and he has not provided any so far. Very uncivil of him.

4 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I’ve got a village read on Stink, both from the thread and my PM, and on reflection think Drought is unlikely to have exposed himself to the degree he did were he not a villager.

1

*round chubby eyes gaze upon Orlok. Without context, it is impossible to tell whether they belong to Mapadonet or a pig*

Drought exposed himself? I ... I hope it was not in front of anyone ... impressionable. *shudders and covers the pigs' eyes with her apron*

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Also checking in. I'll say I do not have an eliminator win condition. (Let the IKYK begin).

Reading through I wasn't sure why anyone was assuming there might be a conversion faction until Stink made his post on why we should. When I read that rule, it said to me "The GM is not the villain of this game" as in "there will be at least one eliminator." I'm going to go back through and look at those who jumped to a conversion faction, because if this turns out to be true, it seems like they had more information about the evil team than the rest of us.

I'm willing to consider a conversion elim team, but I'm not sure I want to put all my eggs in that basket yet.

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Something tells me this community is so hardened to Joe’s games that whenever there’s secret information, they assume lynching the GM will do something. Because of this prevalence of GM-lynching, I doubt Elenion would have made finding out the source of the killings so easy, and is probably going to laugh into his sleeve if we actually vote to lynch him. I’d like to focus our attention back on the people who are actually playing the game.

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Am I actually being lynched right now? Wow. I’ve tried to get myself killed D1 in two games now, and I might actually get lynched D1 here, when I actually want to play the game. 

@Coop772, established consensus among SE players is to have a lynch, or at least to intend to have one, on Day 1, because the discussion it generates helps to build reads on players and potentially eliminate an early suspect. Your suggestion, while likely well-intended, would have led to stagnation in lynch discussion and potentially triggered a harmful effect to the village, which is why I hedged against it. In addition, the lynch, as far as we know right now, is the only means by which the village can dispose of Eliminators. While Eliminators can manipulate lynch discussion, they will always do so, and the village’s job is to find and eliminate those players via, again, the lynch. My arguing for lynch discussion on players of the game was done to revitalize lynch discussion, which has sputtered to a near-halt, and focus our attention on other players that we think might be Elims, and not on the GM. With that said, I appreciate you commenting on me, as that’s exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping to provoke, though hopefully you’ll be persuaded to remove your vote, as I’d obviously rather not die :) 

Edited by Fifth Scholar
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Fith. Very good points, and I understand the idea that a D1 lynch is usually a good thing. However, I do not see any other good targets, and don't have time rn to analyse things super in-depth. Any thoughts (and this is open to anyone) on who could be an elim?

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On 3/23/2018 at 4:51 PM, Elenion said:

Just last night, a nobleman had been slain by a Shardblade summoned into his back and then his entourage cut down as they fled, all while a drunk slumbered nearby. A few days ago a merchant had been knifed by a masked intruder in her shop that left two witnesses alive. Different targets, different weapons, different plans of action, but the same ruthlessness that marked some to die and others to live.

Emphasis mine.

Upon reading the write up (particularly this quoted section) I think we're dealing with two eliminator factions. That last sentence could be an indicator that it's just two roles / characters working for the same cause but the emphasis seems to be more on separation. I'm getting a Szeth vibe from the first one and a Iyatil vibe from the second. Killing a nobleman and his entourage fits the Assassin in White's MO, and the title of this game combined with a masked killer really makes me think Ghostbloods. If Iyatil is a role I would guess that Mraize would be as well. If that's the case, they might be the group with a recruitment ability, as we've seen them try in canon. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Jasnah role they're after, considering where we are, but I'm probably making way too many assumptions :blink:

Ah well. It's fun to speculate about, regardless. Also not super useful.

...

FOUR HOURS LATER

...

Sorry I'm late. Made an impromptu surprise visit to my grandma's because she's feeling sick and didn't to be rude.

Okay so there's 2 people I'm feeling pretty good about voting right now, as much as any sensible person can be this early in the game. I'm doing this mobile so it's difficult for me to isolate and analyze the players posts so I'll try to see if I can get time on a computer tomorrow morning and tackle it before I start driving back to Virginia.

One of those is Kynedath. The other is Steelrunner.

It's been a very long time since I've played with Kyn (or anyone here really) and although I'm very excited to see him back, I'm not getting the best of vibes from him. Whats triggering me specifically is how "clinical" his posts feel. Phrasing seems very careful and the words are clean, organized. Less like natural train of thought and more like "I need to sell this image" and he's trying a bit too hard.

Could totally be a persona thing, honestly. But without prior context and significant content now, I'm leaning in the "Kill Kyn" direction because I've seen many eliminators behave similarly and have even done it myself.

Anyone else agree? Or more importantly, reading him village? If so please tell me why and cite specifics if possible.

As for Steel, it's his later reaction to Orlok's vote that's making me go hmm. I think I can manage to quote it now since it's relatively short and requires no modifications:

5 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Go ahead and keep your vote on me. It's not going to change the fact that I still have no information to share, nor any actual idea of who to be suspicious of, and for what reasons. Also, will Bunnies eat chouta? 

Yay.

Tonally this feels abnormally stand-offish and I can definitely see it as a kind of bluff. Now that I'm reading it again and trying to follow the logic, however, it's more than likely coming from a clueless/reckless villager. Guess my initial read just didn't like the wording or something -_- oh well! Moving on.

 

I really like the Fifth / Coop interaction that just happened. Slight village lean on both of them because of it. I can try to articulate the specifics if people are interested, but essentially I find their responses to each other both logically consistent with being village-aligned.

Most everyone else is in a gray zone. I really can't wait to be on a computer so I can put more effort into this game. It feels good to be back B)

@Jondesu quick question. Why did you target hero with your question on page 1? Like what was your thought process there. Maybe I missed it but either way I want to know more 

Edited by Amanuensis
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1 hour ago, livinglegend said:

Reading through I wasn't sure why anyone was assuming there might be a conversion faction until Stink made his post on why we should.

I think it was because one of the tags on the signup thread indicated the possibility of conversions.

Here is our (very spread out) vote tally.

Drought(1): Stink, Orlok
Fifth Scholar(1): Drought, Coop772
Orlok(1): Herowannabe
Steeldancer(1): Orlok
livinglegend(1): Eternum
Drake(1): Madagascar
Elenion(0): Steeldancer, Coop772
Eternum(1): Devotary of Spontaneity

I would like to nominate Eternum for the lynch.

5 hours ago, Eternum said:

This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

Can you explain why this being a blackout game guarantees a random lynch? It's true that we don't know how many eliminators there are, but that's the case in every other game as well.

Also @Ecthelion III and @The_Lady_of_Chaos have not yet posted.

Finally, I would like to order some cremling chouta from @Herowannabe

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Dangit, just lost a post I was working on when I went to find a quote.

I was squeeeing over DoS' post because normally I do things like that and it really feels great to see another player take the initiative themselves. Especially when it's someone I don't think I've ever played with before.

In fact I like it enough to follow up his post and vote on Eternum with a vote of my own. It's the same post that caught my attention, though for a different reason.

6 hours ago, Eternum said:

Man, I don't even know where to start with this game. We literally know nothing. A random lynch is all we can hope for, unless someone slips, and we're not even sure how many elims there are, or even how many elim factions. (Seonid's Reckoners Blackout had.. 2, if I recall correctly.)

Tentative village read on Orlok. Generating discussion, and trying to get a lynch going. This being a Blackout game, a random lynch is all we can hope for on C1, so actually trying to get a lynch to happen at all is commendable.

I have a village read on Stink, too. Our PM is entirely NAI so far, but they've also been trying to generate discussion, and made good points regarding Fifth, Kyne and Stick. 

Drought I'm not very sure of, right now. Never can seem to get a good read on him at all.

More thoughts to come, after I've read the thread so far carefully.

Gonna place a poke-vote on Livinglegend ( @livinglegend), because they don't seem to have posted yet.

Honestly I could dig into a few things like emphasis of cluelessness at the start and the minimal purpose vote at the end, but in general it's the safeness of this post that bothers me.

What do eliminators want to do? Blend. What's the best way for them to do that? Echo the comments of others with few-to-none personal thoughts. That's how I feel about his paragraphs on Orlok, Stink and Drought at least. I really need to see more of what's going on in his noggin, otherwise it's hard for me not to look at this and see someone trying to hide in plain sight

Plus there's the fact livinglegend did post and he's voting for him because he seems not to have. If you'e going to vote at least get your facts straight :P

But no. Real talk, that makes me think he's just going through the motions. Which makes me think he's content to sit back and do whatever. Which makes me think he's evil

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13 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Plus there's the fact livinglegend did post and he's voting for him because he seems not to have. If you'e going to vote at least get your facts straight :P

2

*throw a pig vaguely towards Amanuensis, hits innocent bystander instead* Can you clarify this statement? According to me verrah scientific chart, the legend feller posted two hours ago, while the eternity feller voted fer him six hours ago. My keen mathematical alpigra abilities make me think that two is less than six, which makes me suspect Eternity posted before livinglegend did, makin' the claim he was lurkin' true at the time, but in your statement you seem to imply the reverse. Your "real talk" comment makes me think if you meant that as a joke, but if so the pigs find it a confusing one. I mean, like you said, if we're gonna be votin' to have each other made into delicious chouta, we should at least have our facts straight.

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