lopenscousin

Is Adolin going bad?(spoiler)

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When i was reading WOR it seemed like to me the Parshendi were actually quite decent until the Red Spren infected them, i have a theory that they can also do the same thing to humans? By committing an evil act you open yourself up to them. In the book it says something like  (cant remember the quote) 'Voidbringers in the hearts of men'

 

To me i think there might be something to look for in that as a lot of Rosharan folklore is eerily true.

 

However I don't think he is going bad i read the some of the KR Orders would have agreed with what he did, don't forget that Jasnah killed those robbers without seeming to break her Nahel bond. 

 

I think in the next book this will be his trial coming to terms with what he did and probably becoming a Dustbringer either that he'll be too busy trying to cover his own chull to go evil.

 

(if you haven't guessed im not much of an Adolin fan)

Edited by WEZ313
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Okay so I'm not going to say I like Adolin I'm not going to say I Don't dislike him either. However story wise a misguided Adolin would be worth far more to the story. As well as entertainment wise an Adolin who remains all goody goody would end up being boring we have enough well intentioned main characters/radiants do we really need him to become one it would be far more interesting to see the completion of the mistake Kaladin nearly made in wor which let's face it is exactly what Adolin did only he went from choice to action in a matter of seconds rather than weeks. Odeams spren are free and roaming now that the evermore has been released I don't think it to farfetched that Adolins actions will potentially attract a void spren I think it would be awesome if Adolin went all darth Vader on us..... It could happen!

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Let me inject my personal opinion here: I LOVE Adolin Kholin! He quickly became my favorite character, and while I would love to see him go all "Darth Vader" on us, I honestly don't think that's what going to happen. Lest we forget, Shallan murdered HER OWN FATHER, and she turned out alright. I think he'll either end up a Dustbringer, a Willshaper, or dead. 

 

I do think that while I'd get a sick feeling in my gut from it, him turning evil would definitely be great for story progression. :) We haven't really seen any 'bad guys'- the conflict is pretty morally gray. I mean, other than Odium, who is ACTUALLY evil? The Ghostbloods? Maybe. Mr. T and co? Maybe. The Alethi Highprinces? In some ways. Even Sadeas himself... Ok. Sadeas was just a swine. I'm glad Adolin killed him. XD

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I feel a little out of place under all these crazy-awesome arguments, but I'd like to point out that Radiant-wise, most spren don't have much of an issue with "evil" acts. Even Syl herself didn't start to have problems until Kaladin made opposing oaths. It wasn't the so-called evil of the acts, it was just the lack of honor in the situation. In Adolin's case, whether or not his (IMO) entirely reasonable flipout at Sadeas could be considered evil, I doubt it would turn off every single type of KR spren.

Just by $0.02. Feel free to tear me apart.

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Trev yea u right but why he does not have spren yet that alone is asking qeustions.Then u see him do something out of caracter  by kiling Sadeas and not just kill cover up his tracks after.

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Actually, I think Adolin DOES have a Spren.  As has been brought up in other topics, during his duel, he distinctly hears someone or something say: "DUCK!" The prevalent theory I've been seeing (Which I agree with with 87% certainty) Is that Adolin is reviving his Shardblade. :) I like that idea. :)

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Sadeas is calculating and just formed an unknown plan with his wife.  He goaded a master dualist alone into murdering him and did not draw his blade.  While many note that Shallan committed murder and is ok, one should note that the different KR orders have different ideals.  Shallan's bond with the Cryptic was not precluded by murder but rather fostered by her self delusions regarding the murders.  If Adolin is bonding the spren in his shardblade I find it telling that he did not use it.  This could either mean that the murder causes the cognitive/spiritual break humans require for the nahel bond, or it means that Adolin fed off his rage and struck down the Emperor.  The descriptions of the veins in Sadeas face and nose smell like void spren.  He did not draw Oathbringer.  I do not think this is the end of Sadeas.

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I gotta say that Adolin turned out to be my favorite character. I liked how he showed that not all light eyes were terrible people. I was quite surprised at the end, though I do remember it the book that Adolin really had to control himself whenever Sadeas was around. I think it was a little bit caused by odium, if you reread it, it says that something just snapped causing Adolin to attack and smile a little at the stunned look on Sadeas's face. 

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I've posted this in another topic but I'll post it here again because I think this is a more appropriate thread:


 


I think I'd agree about his shard reawakening and bond to him...


 


About the speculations about him going bad, I don't think so. Sure, he killed Sadeas but lets face it, all the Knights Radiant that we saw so far has dark secrets and troubled past. They all had killed somebody and they think what they did were the right thing. Kaladin killed Helaran for killing his friends. Shallan killed her mother because she attempted to kill her and she killed her father because he's destroying their family. Dalinar killed a lot of people to unite Alethkar under Gavilar. Jasnah killed those three criminals because she thinks what she did was right or just or whatever... and we accept them. Why cant we accept Adolin killing a certified scum like Sadeas because Sadeas is trying to destroy his father?


 


About him becoming Odium's Champion, ok, that's possible... as possible as any character in the book becoming Odium's Champion. But really, I doubt it. After the things revealed during Taravangian's chapter that the Death Rattles and Thrill were manifestations of "gods" associated with Odium, I conclude that Adolin won't go bad. before his duel with Eshonai, the Thrill already left him and even during the duel the Thrill never returned.


 


Also, I remembered one of Dalinar's vision of Nohadon saying, "Alas, not all spren are as discerning as honorspren.” So, killing Sadeas might be disturbing but that doesn't disqualify him from bonding a spren...


 


Now about his jealosy with the people around him, I think that's the deciding factor on weather he'll go bad or not. All of the Knights Radiant have struggles to overcome before they develop their abilities. Shallan needs to face the truth from her past she kept on avoiding. Kaladin needs to accept the fact that he needs to protect even those whom he hates. Maybe, Adolin needs to accept that he can't have everything he wants and stop being a spoiled brat. :P  


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There seems to be a moral in S.A. that means must justify the ends. Taravingian (sp?) and his diagramists have the good of mankind in mind, but they use immoral means to achieve it. Kaladin was planning to assassinate Elokhar for good reasons, but this action was immoral and he was punished. Not only do I think Adolin is going to end up evil, but is action caused him to not get a spren like everyone else in his family.

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If Jasnah can keep a spren when she was planning to assassinate her sister-in-law and when she lured the 4 thugs into the alley to kill them, then I can't see Adolin killing Sadeas as a problem for some spren.

 

Hopefully, it moves him along his path and starts him to his oath of killing those that just need killing  or something such.  

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The Radiant orders seem to have different views on what is right or wrong. The Windrunners or Skybreakers may not accept Adolin for what he did, but there are other orders would be perfectly fine (even happy) with his actions (Brandon confirmed this). Many of the Surgebinders/Radiants we've seen so far have had questionable killings.

I believe Shallan took the quicker/easier path by killing her father. He was already incapacitated and they could have just restrained him and got the proper authorities as her father did just kill his wife and nearly killed her brother. The Highprince already was highly suspicious of her father and would have probably removed him if someone came forward with his crimes. He deserved his fate, but there were other options Shallan and her family probably could have taken.

Jasnah has used assassins to murder people and has purposely place herself in danger with the intent of killing criminals.

Ym (interlude) was an accomplice in a murder. We don't know much of the details, but he did claim to be ignorant of the poison he gave to someone though.

Dalinar has indicted that he has killed people that didn't deserved it (during his Blackthorn days). He has apparently killed people that just had too much too drink and probably insulted him or something.
 

Sadeas smiled, leaning in, speaking softly. "You want so badly to snap at me, don't you? Even in the old days, you hated it when someone implied that you were insecure. Back then, your displeasure often ended with a head or two rolling across the stones."
"I killed many who did not deserve death." Dalinar said. "A man should not fear losing his head because he took one too many sips of wine."

 


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I really don't want a love triangle scenario to happen, though the story does feel like it will have Kaladin/Shallan pairing at some point. Kaladin getting together with Shallan while she is still with Adolin or causing them to break off the betrothal doesn't seem to be very honorable and makes them both look bad (especially if Kal and Adolin become true friends). Then Adolin getting jealous or having extreme rage towards Kal and Shallan would be awful as well. I don't particularly enjoy reading/watching this type of stuff.

I do, however, really enjoy Kaladin/Shallan (I like Adolin/Shallan too), but if they get together, I hope that Shallan and Adolin would've already broken up for their own reasons. I really like how Kaladin and Adolin relationship progressed in WoR and hope they can continue it.

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As for Adolin going bad, I think that killing Sadeas will probably causes a chain of events that will bring Adolin to a dark place, similar to Kaladin and Shallan having to go through terrible periods in their lives (probably nowhere near as bad). I think that there is a good chance that he will emerge though it, just like they have, and become a Radiant himself. I really don't see him going completely darkside, as that would mean going against the people he loves most (Dalinar, Renarin, Navani) and it doesn't seem to fit what we've seen from the character so far. Even if Kaladin and Shallan happen soon, would that really make Adolin go darkside? For a woman he's hasn't been seeing that long (about a month only so far). Maybe if they were together for a much longer time (or married) and he was really in love with her, I could understand. At this point, it doesn't seem to fit for a guy that is used to going through so many relationships, even though he really likes Shallan and wants it to work out.

The whole rage/Odium theory is interesting and very well could be the thing that causes him down the dark path. However, I think we haven't seen enough occurrences from Adolin to say it is Odium influencing him yet (unlike Shallan's father). Anger and rage towards Sadeas was completely understandable and I would be more worried if Adolin was becoming enraged all the time over any little thing. Even Kaladin was enraged at Szeth before their second fight.

It will be interesting to see the consequences of Adolin's actions and where it will take his character.

...

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I don't see anything wrong with what Adolin did.

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I don't see anything wrong with what Adolin did.

 

There's only a few things wrong that I can see. 

- It happened because of Adolins rage, a little bit of Odium you could say. 

- It's against the law, I remember him saying how incredible bad it was to attack a light eyes unhonorably. 

- it might help Sadeas' actions against his family. 

Edited by FlatLine
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Im just on a reread right now, and after just reading the scene where he talks to his sword...im subscriibing to the idea he gets his spren via the sword...

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If Adolin gets a flashback book, it will be part of the back 5, meaning there will be a time gap for us to explore all of his problems (since he sure hasn't been broken yet).

That said, the problem with "jealousy spiral" evil Adolin is...

That story has been done. A lot. Loss, tragedy, cool. But Game of Thrones can keep their "everyone betrays everyone" protagonists.

Remember: Adolin can throw a shardblade. I think it's time for him to fight his self-worth problems by binding 3 shardblades and asking Aunt Navani to kit him out in experimental combat fabrials.

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Hello. 

First post!!

One i just wanted to mention that Adolin is very jealous. Im not sure if that wasnt made obvious to you guys. He is all about protecting Shallan and there was that scene with Wit and shallan and wit even mentions it.

 

2nd. I hope that Adolin doesnt turn out bad! i dont think he was in the wrong for murdering Sadeas. He was doing it for the greater good. He is a good guy that happened to snap. It happens and everyone even blackthorn makes mistakes. So I dont take it as a big deal that he murdered that pig Sadeas. If anything I think adolin will have trouble with accepting that Shallan now is considered more important than him so he will have to come to terms with that. 

 

3rd. Just a theory. Maybe Kaladin will give Adolin the honorblade and they will become almost an unstoppable duo!!

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I think he will still be a KR and that he won't be going bad. His father was the Blackthorn who built the kingdom along with saedas by force though I don't recall the exact quote used and he was able to bond with the storm father. He has all ready started to reject the "thrill" so I am quite sure he will stay a good guy.

Saedas will end up odiums champion as I am sure he will he revived, if psyco sezeth can come back so can saedas. I just hope it ends there and not a wheel of time forsaken come back every time kind of crap.

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Adolin may indeed become a KR and it is possible that he already has a new or revived spren. But his character has darkened irretrievably. Yes, Adolin is "going bad"...

 

What bothers me about his murder of Sadeas wasn't the event itself but his callousness in its aftermath. During the murder, he was filled with "irrevocable rage" and a touch of amusement. But afterwards, he chose to hide from responsibility in a very cold-blooded way: cutting off his cuffs to ensure no one would see blood on them and hiding Oathbringer. Then he casually walked away and pretended to be elsewhere when he joined his group.

 

I suspect he will be discovered. As we see on all the TV cop shows, some blood always finds its way into evidence. He may even confess to Renarin or Shallan. He is certainly no longer the golden boy of the story.

 

Beyond the murder, it bothers me that he views his relationship with Shallan in "power" terms. First, he was the star and she was lucky to have him, even though she fascinated him. But now that she's a KR, he doesn't know where he fits. In a revealing comment, he says that she is now "more important than even a lighteyes." What arrogance! Unable to find his place in a newly positioned world, he just kills his principal tormentor. Yes, Adolin has gone bad.

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Nobody summoned their shardblade, Sadeas was trained and accomplished warrior and it was a fair fight. I think of it more of like BS getting rid of potential Padan Fain/Prophet (a character that is hard to get rid of and serves no purpose) down the road instead of some major character development point for Adolin.

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He isn't going bad, as in turning evil. I believe that he will be more secretive and maybe a bit paranoid. The whole point of Dalinar's war campaign was to have the moral highground over the other Highprinces. Well, Adolin's action just undermined everything that his dad worked for. It would be awesome if Adolin is the 'evil prince', but even if he isn't he's still gonna have a whole lot of issues to go through.

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Adolin killing Sadeas will be great for the story.

 

If the act itself didn't provide the necessary emotional turmoil for someone to turn into a Knights Radiant, what happens next surely will. He may hide at first, lots of introspection and more talks with his nascent reawakened spren-shardblade. Discovery by Dalinar and everyone else of what he has done will then occur and he will perfectly play the destructive but misunderstood role that Dustbringers are supposed to have.

 

Having more depth to his character will be more fuel for the love triangle as well.

 

Anyway, I don't think Adolin is breaking bad, turning to the Dark Side, or becoming evil. Adolin is simply turning into Batman.

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Adolin is simply turning into Batman.

But Batman doesn't murder people.. So Adolin actually killing Sadeas makes him cooler than Batman.

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But Batman doesn't murder people.. So Adolin actually killing Sadeas makes him cooler than Batman.

No one is cooler than Batman my friend. With the exception of Hoid of course.

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There's only a few things wrong that I can see. 

- It happened because of Adolins rage, a little bit of Odium you could say. 

- It's against the law, I remember him saying how incredible bad it was to attack a light eyes unhonorably. 

- it might help Sadeas' actions against his family. 

The "rage" has a clear point of origin, though. Adolin is only human and this has been built up over two books now.

And unhonorably? Technically, MAYBE. But Sadeas isn't the most honorable person and it's not as if Adolin killed a random nobody lighteyes.

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