lopenscousin

Is Adolin going bad?(spoiler)

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So here is why i think this.

 

-he kill Sadeas (i agree with action) but now i can see him not sleeping in night feling bad when someone mention him and so on....

 

-he is not becoming radiant becouse he kiled Sadeas (all family are radiant now even a bridge boy and renarin)

and before u say it blackthorn kiled to unite kindom kaladin to protect his frends and  shallan to protect herself and her brothers its not the same as Sadeas

 

-he will maybe get honor blade but that is power without limit he maybe go kiling around more Sadeas at later books and syl sed they need dangerous lvl of stormling so who know what will that do to him we all know and love zeth :D

 

-and meybe Shallan new position above him and maybe kaladin in picture with Shallan teaching her to fight with stormlight adolin jealous etc.

 

what do u think?

 

 

 

 

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Well, it certainly looks like Adolin might spend some time dabbling in the Dark Side.

 

That said, I don't see that killing Sadeas necessarily means that he won't become a Radiant.  Shallan murdered her dad and it doesn't seem to have stopped her.  

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Well I kinda see him going joining one of the other factions(I hope Sons of Honor), later on change his act and seek redemption than returning back to his family to become a KR.

 

We kind of have eyes(will have in Szeth case) on the major factions at work but the Sons.

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There's a WoB where he says some of the KR orders would be very happy with what Adolin did.  Heavily inferred by body language and expression was that the Dustbringers were one of them.  I don't think he's going to go evil, or at least, not Darth Vader evil :)

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There's a WoB where he says some of the KR orders would be very happy with what Adolin did.  Heavily inferred by body language and expression was that the Dustbringers were one of them.  I don't think he's going to go evil, or at least, not Darth Vader evil :)

 

Well, that begs the question - could you be "evil" and be a Radiant at the same time?    We know that Alakavish built up a following and initiated a war (of aggression, from the sound of it).  While Radiants are clearly bound to certain ideals, being "good," doesn't seem to be one of them.

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Adolin turning to the Dark Side really depends on how he deals with Sadeas' death later on. He could feel guilty enough about it to come clean to Dalinar. He could feel guilty enough to not come clean, but decides to never do something like that again. Or, he could rationalize and say that it was for the greater good, he was justified, Sadeas would do more harm than good alive, etc.

This, as has been mentioned already, could be enough to turn him into a Radiant. It'll be interesting to see.

As to if you could be evil and a radiant, probably. However, I think most spren would rather die than take it that far. Syl certainly would. Alakavish could have legitimately thought he was doing the right thing, so his spren could have stuck with him. On that note, Nohadon mourns that "Alas, not all spren are as discerning as Honorspren." Apparently, the Windrunners were really solid good guys.

Edited by Chrono
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I think Alakavish and Nohadon were before the KR were founded.  I'm not sure why I think this, other than that I don't think the KR would bring a people to war.

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Welcome!  Please accept an introductory upvote.

 

I've been wondering some of the same things.

 

He has had chances to be jealous.  I haven't seen any signs of it so far.  He could be jealous of his father for his power, of Elhokar for his position, now Kaladin and Shallan for their exalted roles and abilities. 

"Damnation," Adolin said.  "That bridgeboy is really one of them?  The Knights Radiant?" 

"Yes."

Oddly, Adolin smiled, seeming satisfied.  "Ha! I knew there was something wrong with that man."

 

As Adolin walked the dark halls of Urithiru, he tried not to show how overwhelmed he felt.  The world had just shifted, like a door on its hinges.  A few days ago, his causal betrothal had been that of a powerful man to a relatively minor scion of a distant house.  Now, Shallan might be the most important person in the world, and he was ...

What was he?

I think if Adolin were inclined to jealousy, he would have experienced it already.  We saw how quickly Elhokar manifested his jealousy toward Kaladin after Kaladin saved Adolin.  It remains to be seen how he will react to something developing between Shallan and Kaladin, should that come to pass. 

 

As for his development, he seems to be a good man, but maybe not broken enough to attract a spren.  Maybe this will precipitate a crisis that could lead to his further development.  I almost think the greater crisis for his honor would be how he reacts to being a suspect than the act itself. 

 

Concerning the orders, it seems that there would need to be a legal rationale for a skybreaker to kill someone.  A windrunner, it seems, would need to be protecting, and there is no immediate danger.  OTOH, he has not really taken any oaths yet, so he can't violate them.  I think his actions might be entirely permissible to an order like the Elsecallers or the Lightweavers. 

 

I wonder about the Shardic influence.  It seems that Sadeas was entirely given over to Odium.  I could imagine Odium being happy to exchange Sadeas for a foothold in Adolin's soul.  Adolin, while killing Sadeas, is just described as "completely, totally, and irrevocably enraged."  This rage seems more righteous than corrupt to me, but it still might subject him to Odium's influence.  From there he might be tempted to more vigilante actions and the slippery slope of temptation.  I know nothing, but feel quite curious. 

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I think what Adolin did was disturbing (but very understandable) because he did it in anger. Had he tried to get Sadeas formally tried and executed like a Skybreaker probably would I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I do think Adolin is going to get dangerously close to the dark side. I don't see him actually turning evil though. If anything, the murder could be a way for Shallan to reach out to him. She knows how he felt at that moment because she did the same to her father. They could help each other heal. I give Adolin an 80% chance of staying good.

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The problem with Adolin is he's an attention seeker or at least he likes to be in the limelight it seems. A good demonstration of this was the duels.

The fact that he could just snap like that and kill Sadias walk away and feel nothing is also worrying since the only emotions he displayed in that seen was anger and hate.

Source:coppermind

(Odium, means two things: the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others.)

Following this reasoning it is still possible that he could become a radiant but that doesn't mean that he'll stay one the two most likely outcomes for him being a radiant in this situation is that he'll either kill his spren or maybe even end up corrupting his spren.... It is possible after all Odium does have spren who's to say that the actions of radiant only result in death after all death.

The other thing is that Adolin all through the series until now was a rather dense character the best examples of this is his relationships with women. Where Kaladin recognised Shallans deceit adolin was all through the book blind to it. However at the end of Wor before Adolin goes all postal we see he beginning to recognise that his perfect world has been flipped upside down this is bound to cause contention later on since now he's going to be paying closer attention to the people around him and we'll as questioning things more such as motives in particular Shallans motives. Pair that with the fact that Shallans has to deal with the ghostblood in the next book this is bound to cause issues with Adolin especially if he infers the wrong thing from her actions and let's face it... Adolins tends to be... Mentally direct.

I don't think Adolin will be inherently evil I think he's just going to screw things up so bad that he does something he cant come back from and that will open the way for him to blame others for his actions maybe even seeing him joining the diagram.. Maybe

Edited by arcmourn
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Adolin does seem to be going bad. One might even say...he's spoiled.

 

More seriously, we don't really know how prone Adolin is to jealousy. For pretty much his entire life, he's always been able to get what he's wanted. The comparison to Elhokar isn't really appropriate, since Elhokar wants to be regarded like Gavilar (and is failing) but Adolin has no real desire to take on the responsibilities of a highprince.

 

It's true that he doesn't really exhibit any jealousy even near the end of the book. But it seems like this is mainly because he's still trying to process everything that's happened. He's been spending a lot of time thinking about how things have changed little bit before his attack on Sadeas. The implication is that his attack might not simply because of Sadeas's actions, but rather Sadeas's taunting was the last straw.

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Adolin does seem to be going bad. One might even say...he's spoiled.

More seriously, we don't really know how prone Adolin is to jealousy. For pretty much his entire life, he's always been able to get what he's wanted. The comparison to Elhokar isn't really appropriate, since Elhokar wants to be regarded like Gavilar (and is failing) but Adolin has no real desire to take on the responsibilities of a highprince.

It's true that he doesn't really exhibit any jealousy even near the end of the book. But it seems like this is mainly because he's still trying to process everything that's happened. He's been spending a lot of time thinking about how things have changed little bit before his attack on Sadeas. The implication is that his attack might not simply because of Sadeas's actions, but rather Sadeas's taunting was the last straw.

I agree I think Sadias was taunting him in which case he was fulfilling his role as the provoker of hate and Adolin the role of the feeler of hatred.

Source:coppermind

(Odium, means two things: the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others.)

The way the scene was writen I couldn't help but feel was ment to demonstraight this as well as setup for future events after all Sadias was a too important a few character to kill of in thebstory without there being a major payoff for future story development it would be to great a wast on Mr S's part not to make it a major development point.

Edited by arcmourn
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Adolin is my new Favorite Character since Jasnah died.   I was as excited to see him kill sadeas as I was when kaladin spoke his 2nd and 3rd oaths.     I would buy him a beer and play some call of duty with him.

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Adolin is my new Favorite Character since Jasnah died.   I was as excited to see him kill sadeas as I was when kaladin spoke his 2nd and 3rd oaths.     I would buy him a beer and play some call of duty with him.

 

But she's not dead.

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I don't see how this is a "dark" thing for Adolin to do. Sadeas had brought him inches from this sort of thing at least once already. Then to have everything prove Sadeas wrong, and his declaration that he is still going to try to undermine and kill Dalinor, sent Adolin into rage action. It might cause a bit of a problem legally, but from what Brandon said I suspect it is the action that will draw a spren to him. 

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I have been talking about Adolin quite a bit with some friends and I do think Adolin will become a Radiant of sorts, but one bound to the spren of Odium or a Hatebound.

 

I think there are three strong options for Adolin's character so far:

(Sidenote, obviously Sanderson could have a different plan but I believe these are the best options based on what has been written so far)

 

Option 1: (Least likely) Adolin stays the son of a high prince for most of the series and adds slightly to the story while not being a major character.

 

Option 2: Dalinar steps down as a highprince to focus on leading the Radiants and Adolin takes his place as highprince and leads the armies in some big battles and such.

 

(In either option 1 or 2 Adolin could marry or not marry Shallan)

 

Option 3: I don't know how likely this option is, but I unfortunately hope it happens

 

Adolin becomes troubled from murdering/killing Sadeas.

Adolin becomes confused at the state of the world and his place in it. Now useless, where he was previously powerful.

Adolin becomes envious of Renarin, Shallan, Dalinar, and Kaladins powers and position as Radiants.

Adolin becomes jealous of Shallan and Kaladin's romance that starts to flourish and Shallan's denial of his affections for Kaladin.

Adolin will have started to become friends with Kaladin and feel betrayed that he is "taking his girl" 

These possibilities and more all combine to tempt Adolin to hate all of those involved and in his anger bind a hatespren (from Odium) and become a hatebound.

Its a tragic tale, but it seems like the most interesting character that Adolin could become.

 

Like I said before, this is all conjecture, but I doubt the killing of Sadeas was just to get Sadeas out of the way. I believe it was used as a foreshadowing of who Adolin will/ can become.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

 

Adolin is my new Favorite Character since Jasnah died.   I was as excited to see him kill sadeas as I was when kaladin spoke his 2nd and 3rd oaths.     I would buy him a beer and play some call of duty with him.

 

Go read the epilogue. Like right now. For reals.

Edited by Carlos Stormblessed
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I think going against his father orders for the first time bode not so well for Adolin, His father throughout both books was a force of reason, wisdom and experience and killing Sadeas show Adolin taking charge and leaving his father shadow, but not in welcoming light. 

He feels smart enough, strong enough to be self reliant and take a hold of his future. heck for all intends and purposes he did the right thing he saved his family,his father was WRONG, he can make his own decisions from now on.

There is a conflict inside him since he still want to be ordered around by his father, it's easier it's familiar, changes are scary. 

 

I see him getting swayed toward other means to bring back his glory days, he loved being recognize as a rich, powerful man with royal family. He won't give it up that easily. He's a bachelor through and through.

They will have more KR meeting like at the end of the book, will Adolin be invited? if so can he not see it a pity for his lack of powers?

He will be Jealous, not immediately but in time, I can't blame him, everyone would have felt the same way. will he let it stay as it is? I think not. Maybe steal Kaladin's honorblade(cause "why the hack he needs it" will be the reasoning), maybe join a group with a strong figure like his father that can fulfill his wishes, becoming a KR as well.

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I think we overthink what happend, and the negativ changes it will have on Adolin.

i feel that this will have a good impact on his character way and i think

it will attract a spren from an order of KR.

 

thats my quess atleast :P

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I don't see how this is a "dark" thing for Adolin to do. Sadeas had brought him inches from this sort of thing at least once already. Then to have everything prove Sadeas wrong, and his declaration that he is still going to try to undermine and kill Dalinor, sent Adolin into rage action. It might cause a bit of a problem legally, but from what Brandon said I suspect it is the action that will draw a spren to him. 

 

He did it for himself Sadeas push him to much he got angry and kiled him .He wold have spren until now if he is geting one ,Renarin have it and he is side caracter until now.I think only way for him is honor blade.

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Gosh i am quite surprised people think he will go bad, i figured he would definitely stay a good guy, and the sadeas incident was a moment of madness, yes he would feel guilt, but not turn evil.

 

He does treat kaladin badly at first... i put that down to a personality clash really, kaladin does not act how you would expect a darkeye to act. But, when kaladin was put into prison, adolin showed his true colours by insisting on being in prison himself.

 

He also shows distaste when killing the parshendi singers, and is relieved to be fighting someone who can fight back (eshoni)

 

When you look at how he treats other darkeyes, letting the young lad try on his helm, rescuing the prostitute, i always viewed him as a completely good guy, down to earth within the culture that exists.

 

I recall syl saying not all spren have her standards, so it wouldnt stop him becoming a KR, and i expect him to become one.

 

Perhaps being the only none KR amongst his peers would engender jealousy, but i think it would be out of character personally

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 Maybe I am warped but I dont think so....

 

 If a person does their absolute best to KILL ME, and then dumb enough to leave me for dead, then lets it be known he is going to do whatever it takes to finish the job.... That is an absolute immediate threat. I don't care if he has a sword in his hand at that very second or not. Next time I turn my back he will kill me or my family/friends. He SHOULD have a sword in his hands, that is his mistake.

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OK, full disclosure, Adolin has turned into my favorite character, and its not close.

 

Getting that out of the way, I'm crazy excited for the directions for Adolin to go in the next couple books. I agree with trev1972,  I don't see him "going to the dark side." But I do see things getting really rough for him. I think books 3 and 4 will see him utterly broken emotionally, and eventually turned into a radiant. I was going to start a separate thread on Adolin's future, but I suppose there's no reason to have two Adolin threads. Here are my reasons.

 

1) Adolin has spent his entire life training to the greatest warrior in all of Alethkar, because he idolizes his father, the former greatest warrior in Alethkar. The irony is, that for just one short moment, Adolin succeeded. Additionally, his sense of protectiveness and comradery with those close to him is at least as strong as Kaladin, as shown by his willingness to sacrifice his own life in the peace negtiations with Eshonai, and his Jail Solidarity with Kaladin after the duel, Adolin just tries to cover it up, because it doesn't fit with his public persona. The only difference with his sense of protectiveness from Kaladin is that Kaladin protects out of honor and principle, and Adolin protects out of love and friendship. (Every time he has an open conversation with someone, it turns out that the big oaf is emotional as all get-out)

 

Now, at the end of the book, everyone Adolin loves and wants to protect - father, little brother, fiance, and best frenemy - have become radiants; they don't need his help. On page 1066 we literally have him sayng "What was he?" about himself. How does he define himself in a post-radiant world? How does he cope with his military irrelevance?

 

2) To me, this doesn't mean that he turns evil. The most central aspect of his character, to me, is his ability to make friends. He even turned Kaladin into his bro, which was basically a miracle. I didn't read much hate into his murder of Sadeas. Yes, I know he uses the term "irrevocably enraged," but that is how close quartered fights are. Try this passage on for size from 1067:

 

Sadeas smiled, and Adolin saw the truth. No, he didn't believe this, but it was the lie he would tell. He would start the whispering again, trying to undermine Dalinar.

...

"It doesn't have to be this way."

The sentiments I read out of that passage were sorrow, and duty. Yes, anger followed, but nothing hateful.

 

I do think however, that rough times are ahead for Adolin. Rather than becoming evil, I think we're about to see Adolin destroyed by a force much more powerful than voidbringers or radiants. Yes, I'm talking about SHALADIN

 

3)Over on the Shallan relationship thread, several people are posing incredibly well-supported arguments for why Shallan is on the verge of leaving Adolin for Kaladin. The arguments are too long to post here. My spin-off: We already have quotes from Adolin saying that what he wants most in life is for a relationship to work out. He just wants to love and be loved. Now, he's found a girl who is literally perfect for him in every way, except she's being drawn to his best frenemy. If Shaladin happens, it would break loverboy Adolin in profound ways, which leads to # 4.

 

4) A few spren have mentioned that only broken souls can be reforged into Radiants. That is why literally everyone around Adolin except the the blondey himself have become surgebnders. They've all been broken in some way. Adolin has not. He's had a somewhat easy life, which might be why love is the most important thing to him (Maslow's Hierarchy). A bunch of people have mentioned on the forums that Brandon implied that Adolin is a dustbringer. I have no idea if ths is true or just a dirty rumor. However, if true, Adolin would need to be broken before his spren could appear to him, but how do you break Adolin? The dude is a paragon of mental health.

 

The answer: You throw away his life's work (becoming the greatest warrior in all the land), and then you break his heart.

 

Edit: Props to carlos stormblessed also. he wrote a lot of the same steps, I just think it'll play out a little differently

Edited by Lhurgoyf
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I think Adolin's actions at the end were huge - I wouldn't be surprised if that's where his personal journey to Radianthood begins. The whole concept behind the Ten Orders is that there are different ways of being honorable, and some of them can be conflicting. There's Word of Brandon out there that killing Sadeas would disqualify him from the Skybreakers (the real Skybreakers, I assume) but "several orders would be very happy with what he did". I imagine the Windrunners wouldn't be thrilled, but it might not be a dealbreaker for them, since Sadeas basically admitted that he was going to actively work to undermine humanity's best chance for survival. The Elsecallers, on the other hand, would be thrilled - remember that Jasnah first met her spren on the day she planned on having her sister-in-law assassinated! I bet the Willshapers would be cool with it too: being resolute has to do with making tough decisions....sort of like a "you want me on that wall, you NEED me on that wall!" kind of mentality, perhaps.

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I honestly doubt he's going bad, so much as he's in the process of breaking.  A necessary function of becoming a knight Radiant.  But I have some thoughts on that which I need to process a little more once my Girlfriend finishes the book(which she hasn't started yet.  She has to finish American Gods, and then Warbreaker first...)

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There are other ways of breaking Adolin, except Shallarin: people trusting him with stuff, while Adolin knowing he's nothing but a murderer.

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