[OB] Poll - Opinion on Adolin

[Toaster Retribution]

9 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

Nerdgaoul

This is gold. Thank you.

[maxal]

As a reader who not only loves Adolin, but is passionate about his character, I have a very different perspective on what is happening.

I feel I am not allowed to love the character as much as I do because each time I voice out my thoughts, they are met with strong opposition which always leads to the animosity others are saying prevents them from even posting their thoughts.

I feel I am not allowed to state I personally believe the narrative of Oathbringer would have been only stronger, not weaker, had the author given slightly more viewpoints to Adolin in order to make his character more cohesive, in order to allow, even those who have trouble with his character, to understand him better. 

I feel I am not allowed to state I personally find the character hasn't been given enough given his position within the narrative, I am not allowed to state I find him more important than the minor role others are insisting he barely fulfills.

I feel I am not allowed to defend the character I love so much, to state how important I find his contribution to the main narrative is. I am especially not allowed to draw parallel in between other characters the fandom has acknowledged were "important", without having important narrative, to reinforce my point because this too is a cause of friction.

I feel I am not allowed to wish the author would expand on Adolin's role within future books, I am not allowed to state I personally believe the narrative would benefit from it as I am not allowed to voice out the idea not given Adolin enough page time is actually harming the character more than it is helping him.

I feel I am not allowed to discuss future story arcs for the character which are positive, growing as opposed to negative and shrinking.

I feel the only future the 17th Shard has allowed forms a valid form a discussion is the one where Adolin: 1) dies, 2) falls into complete insignificance, 3) becomes Odium's Champion as any endeavor to discuss an expanding narrative leading to an actual character growth are met with so much adversity, it ends up turning sour.

In other words, I feel I am not allowed to be an Adolin's fans within the 17th Shard and if I can no longer discuss the narrative aspects I personally find interesting without ending being the one who causes the mods to step in or the discussion to turn ugly, then I have no business being here anymore.

Thank you for listening and I am sorry for having created a climate which other Sharders feels is improper to discuss the narrative. It has never been my intentions, but forces are to admit the wind has turned. It is no longer welcome to support, speak and wish for Adolin to grow into this narrative. I have no desire to keep on stirring the pot: I am leaving you all the space you want.

[insert_anagram_here]

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He is part of the love triangle, one of the most polarizing things in the Cosmere. 

I was very reluctant to post on this thread and this is exactly the reason. This is like saying "People hate Adolin because they were shipping Shallan and Kaladin" but I feel that this attitude is kind of disrespectful towards the minorities of this argument. It may not be intentional, so I'll try to explain myself here and hopefully find understanding on the other side.

I believe that the Shallan-Adolin relationship is set up, if not to fail, to at least have a lot of turbulence in the next book. But this is not what made me believe that Adolin is a hateful character. This is not only an exaggeration, but also the realization and the conclusion are switched around. And this makes others doubt the credibility of my opinion. 

So let me clear this up, in case it isn't: I believe that Adolin isn't as nice as people think he is, that's why I think the relationship is set up to have a lot of turbulence, and this was my opinion from the moment I finished OB until now. I do not hate Adolin, but I can't say I like him yet either. I'm still expecting to see something more interesting about him at this point, that's why I consider myself neutral in this argument.

I'll be perfectly honest and tell you that I had no issue with Adolin when I finished OB because I considered him a grey character. He's had good moments and he's had somewhat-evil moments and that made him interesting to me. He appears like a stable character, clear minded and his actions indicate him as well intended and good-natured, but that's only limited to what he has let out on the outside. The fact that we didn't have any of his internal thoughts, his aspirations and fears, (or whatever we got was neither perfectly good nor evil), I'm not sure what his internal struggle is. I always thought that his difficult childhood and militaristic upbringing should've affected him a lot more than what's been expressed so far in the books, so I've always been waiting for him to show his "true colors" at some point, whatever those may be. My previous experience with literature has led me to think that there was an underlying duality, that we haven't seen yet, and my interest to him revolves around the outcome of that assumption.

Admittedly, I've never been on the Shard before OB so when I saw the majority of people loving Adolin's character, not for that duality, but for the fact that he is a straight good character that baffled me and it still does. Yes, if he was a real person I would love him too, but this is a fictional character, he'd make a better story to me if he had a path full of mistakes and grey choices.

So, I guess I agree with @BraidedRose on this one:

2 hours ago, BraidedRose said:

I know I will likely end up enjoying his character more if he goes in a less expected direction.

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by insert_anagram_here

[HoidsRock]

First of all, I think this is a very interesting discussion.

Second, I am in the Adolin thumbs-up camp--pretty much everywhere. (Maya fully alive, check!).

Third, I think there is an interesting plot line with Adolin that BWS develops in Wheel of Time but sort of runs out of space.  Now I do know that the 17th shard explicitly avoids the involvement of the Wheel of Time so I don't know if there is a special way to block spoilers or if merely mentioning WOT is taboo.  Moderators, please jump in if I have crossed a line.

Spoiler for WOT, Towers of Midnight:

Spoiler

In Towers of Midnight, we have Gawyn, prince of Andor, Elayne's brother and Egwene's future husband, pondering his place in the new order:

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Elayne was right.  Much of Gawyn's hatred of Rand al' Thor came from frustration .  Maybe jealousy.  Al'Thor was playing a role closer to what Gawyn would have chosen for himself. Ruling nations, leading armies.  Looking at their lives, who had taken on the role of prince, and who the role of lost sheepherder?

Towers of Midnight p. 569.

Throughout WOT, characters (and the readers) are warned of the upheaval the Dragon will bring.  I love the Gawyn plot line because it shows the upheaval from the POV of a sympathetic character. I wish I had seen more of it.  

Adolin occupies a unique place in-world.  He begins the series in the role of the dashing, foppish prince.  Third in succession to the most powerful kingship in Roshar, heir to the most powerful princedom.  He moves to anger and resentment towards the lowly darkeyes promoted to captain while not understanding his place.  By the end of OB, he is actually feeling inferior to Kaladin!  He has gone from the top of the Rosharan social pyramid to wondering where he fits.

Quite often in long series, I find that authors reflect turmoil with body count--you thought things were crazy before, just look at how many people I killed in this scene!  I feel through the character of Adolin, BWS tries to partially reflect in-world in a sympathetic character's disorientation.

One final note.  I enjoy, and hope to seem more of,  Adolin's relationship with Kaladin.  Kaladin had one true friend who didn't allow himself to be awed by the Stormblessed--Moash (it didn't work out too well).  Adolin has a close relationship with another lighteyes, Jakamov (it didn't work out too well).  The way these two characters struggle with one another and yet grudgingly like each other is again something I want to see more of.

 

[Justi]

He was one of my favorites. I would like to read his struggle with kingdom since thanks to Sadeas’s murder he will be very unpopular heir. Also I would like to read how Dalinar will deal with him. Unfortunately he is on his way to become radiant (I’m afraid Sanderson will not stop until everyone in the books becomes radiant  ) Also marriage with Shallan is very bad idea for his character. He could be much more than “a prince who will heal” her. 

[What's a Seawolf?]

Every time I re-read, I like him more and more.  He's a great character to have alongside the superpowered, internally broken main characters.

And I just love reading his generally happy, upbeat personality.

[cantabile21]

Brandon has mentioned a few times that writing Adolin has been a happy surprise, and i think that if that continues, we would end up with some rather interesting Adolin story lines that were never planned, which would lead to some other character story lines that were never planned, and that we would end up with a book or two that are slightly different from what Brandon originally conceptualised, but are also much better for it. Brandon is a meticulous planner, but he hasn't been afraid to change things during the actual writing and subsequent editing either. Adolin in his current form is a result of that. 

So i believe that whatever we get with Adolin in the future books, it would not change the grand story line, but it would add so much more colour. With three books down, some of us have come to care about this character who wasn't planned to be a major player but has somehow managed to demand much more attention from his writer and more or less inserted himself into the equation. 

And yes, Adolin is my favourite character, somewhat surprisingly as i didn't get such a good impression of him early in The Way of Kings, but he grew on me as the book went on. By the time i got into Words of Radiance, he was firmly my favourite. Now with the potential offered by the Maya arc, and with Brandon RAFO-ing every question on that subject, i am eagerly awaiting that branch of the story and have already imagined a few scenarios as to how Adolin would eventually awaken Maya. i also dream of a reprisal of that four vs one duel, with Kaladin and Adolin somehow combining their powers together - like Shallan and Dalinar with that VR map - to defeat a whole host of Fused. i even end that scene with Kaladin's Stormlight running out just as the last Fused is defeated, sending Adolin crashing in a heap in the sand and laughing his head off. Kaladin would then help him up and the bros would take a moment to reminisce about the first time they fought together, and marvel at how far they have come along. 

Ahh... my imagination is running away with me again. 

[Vissy]

I actually disagree, @cantabile21. I think that Adolin will play a major role in the main plot - if not directly, then through his relationship with Shallan and Kaladin. After Oathbringer, Adolin is effectively a main character.

[Subvisual Haze]

The hilarious thing about Adolin is that he's: a Prince of great power, starts the story wielding a weapon of mass destruction, is extremely handsome and well dressed, and is ridiculously charismatic.  Based on those characteristics he should be a giant ball of spoiled wealthy privilege, a narcissistic rich kid prick constantly looking down his nose at the peasants.  And yet that's obviously not the case, if anything he's become the closest thing we have to an "everyman" viewpoint character (due to lack of Radiant powers, average intelligence, and enjoying spending time with common people).

[What's a Seawolf?]

15 hours ago, cantabile21 said:

i also dream of a reprisal of that four vs one duel, with Kaladin and Adolin somehow combining their powers together - like Shallan and Dalinar with that VR map - to defeat a whole host of Fused. i even end that scene with Kaladin's Stormlight running out just as the last Fused is defeated, sending Adolin crashing in a heap in the sand and laughing his head off. Kaladin would then help him up and the bros would take a moment to reminisce about the first time they fought together, and marvel at how far they have come along. 

This is a FANTASTIC idea.  Though I'd almost like it better if Adolin still didn't have Radiant powers when it went down.

My concern reading it would be that Brandon already did a Kaladin and Adolin vs. overwhelming odds battle.  And both survived.

It occurring again would send off major 'impending doom' sirens.  But despite that, I really want to see this now and have both of them survive.

[cantabile21]

6 hours ago, Vissy said:

I actually disagree, @cantabile21. I think that Adolin will play a major role in the main plot - if not directly, then through his relationship with Shallan and Kaladin. After Oathbringer, Adolin is effectively a main character.

i hope you're right, Vissy! Hopefully the huge ripple effect that Brandon has talked about is actually huge enough that he has no choice but to expand his original framework with new plot lines and worldbuilding possibilities, anchored by Adolin's increased role in the story, without messing up his grand plan for the series. Because Brandon has consistently referred to Adolin as more of a support character, i try to manage my expectations, but as Brandon has also admitted to the current Adolin being a pleasurable surprise, he might continue to surprise us - and himself - with what Adolin may have to offer to the story. i hope... 

Edited October 10, 2018 by cantabile21