Szeth has an honor spren.. deduction [spoilers]

[Aloysius]

Szeth must have an honor spren because he doesn't get his powers from the honorblade.



Here is why it makes sense;

Szeth is labeled Truthless because he had his powers when his people thought that either the final battle was already won and over, or

that it wasn't time for the next desecration. He simply wasn't supposed to have those powers but he did.


So the definition of Truthless is being an anomaly and having Radiant powers when it shouldn't exist in the world.


Now after meeting Kal and concluding that KR powers were returning to the world Szeth fled back to his master Taravangian because he

was beginning to think maybe he himself wasn't really Truthless. Taravangian then told Szeth that Kaladin was using an Honorblade and

that the KR powers weren't really returning to the world, Szeth was still an anomaly and therefore still Truthless.


Now knowing that Szeth knows what an honorblade is and what it bestows upon its weilder, we can conclude that he wasn't slipped the

honorblade and tricked into thinking himself Truthless. He saw Kal was more or less a KR and realized he wasn't alone, so not

Truthless.


This all means that Szeth wouldn't be Truthless if he had gotten his powers from an honorblade. He was Truthless because he popped up

with powers out of no where thanks to an honor spren as if the next desolation was coming around the corner





---------------
Some facts:
1.Weird rock used to control Szeth is very important. They are said not to sell themselves to slavery often. Perhaps this is a very unusual ritual, seems like most people don't know what to think of that rock until Szeth explains himself. This would mean a whole lot more if it contained his honor spren in one form or another.

2.Szeth is very honorable. He follows what he believes is right and doesn't bend at all. When he is proved wrong by Kal at the very

end he accepted punishment unto himself without any further hesitation. It would make sense that he could have attracted an honorspren

himself.

Some probably-reasonable ideas:
Pretending Szeth did have an Honor Spren when he was younger, I don't know and doubt if Szeth ever got so far as to give his second

oath which could have been likely broken and lead to his spren dieing, but I have had a strong feeling there is more to Szeth's rock

than Sanderson has been telling us. I think his spren was somehow captured and stored in that rock.

After Kal kills Szeth and catches his falling sword, Syl says that she "thinks" Szeth's weapon is an honorblade. Though it would be

natural to use the word "think" in English in her position as her memories return to her and what not but I doubt this is a

coincidence and I doubt it was a mistake on Sanderson's part. It would be the perfect hint to slip most people's minds.

Szeth has to have some kind of KR ability. That helmet that Kaladin put on his fist in his 3v4 bout sucked the stormlight out of him.

The armor can't take stormlight out of gems around the room because it needs to be directly hooked to source; you have to hold gems up

to the plate's innards to get anything to happen. Chances are when Szeth uses Nightblood he is going to have to have stormlight within

himself since having infused gems on his belt won't be good enough to fuel his newfound sword unless he uses a bag of gems for a

sheath lol.

Last and not least, Szeth's whole combat presence was based around his ability to surgebind and such with extreme skill. I don't think

he would be very effective or interesting if he was to lose his whole skill set that made him who he was. Being unable to heal himself

as he collects minor wounds would make him feel like a martyr as he would be widdled to death from minor scrapes in the story. It

would be awful.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Aloysius

[Rust and Ruin]

Sorry, I don't usually discount theories, but there are a number of facts presented in WoR that go against this.

 

1. Szeth's Honorblade did not scream when Kaladin touched it. This is the biggest hole in an honorspren theory - if Szeth's weapon were not an honorblade, it would have screamed when Kaladin picked it up. Even if it were his own spren turning into a weapon (and it did not glow or do the things that we've seen Syl do), how did it escape from the stone that commands Szeth?

 

2. Szeth's form of honor is different from the ones espoused by Windrunners, particularly the second and third ideals. Who was he protecting that could not protect themselves when he assassinated kings and those who guarded the king (where is the honor in killing Adolin after launching Dalinar into the air to his death?)? His spren would have died - an honorspren like Syl died for much less and she shudders at the idea of what Szeth was doing.

 

Now, if you'd said that Szeth had a highspren all along, I think that could be defensible.

[Aleksiel]

But if Szeth had a spren, wouldn't he be certain he wasn't Truthless?

[Cayden]

I suspect that Szeth becoming Truthless had more to do with Taravangian's machinations than anything spren related. They are very rare in Shinovar from what we know.

 

Im more curious to know whether Szeth received visions alerting him to the coming desolation, think about it;

 

If Odium can see the future, the short term future far better than Honor then he could likely be running rings around everyone, getting his Unmade to give certain people visions in order to set them on a path which would set the Parshendi up for their fall. I dont think this is how a desolation normally happens because I dont think the Parshmen have ever taken up slave form before, so he lacks an "in" to get them under his control. Perhaps in previous epochs there Voidspren merely went dormant and they could leash the darker aspects of those forms without Odium taking up the puppet strings.

 

Maybe he gave Szeth visions, and played into Taravangians insights so that they would provide him his army?

Edited March 12, 2014 by Cayden

[Aminar]

Syl flat out says no Honor Spren would allow him to do what he does. Not even Highspren would, given that he broke so many laws in doing what he did(by killing servants and creating bloodbaths...)

[Bloodfalcon]

Yeah sorry this one is not right for multiple reasons. 

 

A couple: 

Windrunner honor is based around protecting/leading. Szeth is probably the number 1 opposite on all of Roshar at both of those two critical attributes. He assassinates and follows orders fairly blindly because, as Kaladin says, he is a coward. 

 

We have been specifically told by Brandon that Szeth has no spren.

 

I don't think he would have been so surprised that Surgebinders were resurfacing if.... he was a surgebinder. 

 

There are loads of others, but those are the main piece. Also, he will still be very interesting as he is now running with one of the Heralds and holds a magic sword from another planet. Lots to work with there.