CosmicSieve Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Ashspren said: I kind of want to see Shaladin resolved as a sibling relationship— one where they roast each other constantly, but are always there for each other when they need it most. Yeah, me too-- even though I think it's impossible because of Helaran, it's still what I want. I love it when characters that I like interact rather than are off all by their lonesome. I would be very happy if Shallan, Kaladin, and Adolin could continue to team up on missions (or even just hang out together), and all get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 I've thought about them being friends now that everything is apparently settled and I don't think it is possible. Based on what happened in OB, it would be an abusive relationship. I agree with @CosmicSieve it is probably because of Helaran. It might also be because Shallan has a crush on Kaladin and wishes she didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywatch Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 2 hours ago, wotbibliophile said: I've thought about them being friends now that everything is apparently settled and I don't think it is possible. Based on what happened in OB, it would be an abusive relationship. I agree with @CosmicSieve it is probably because of Helaran. It might also be because Shallan has a crush on Kaladin and wishes she didn't. Abusive in what sense? Abuse has a strict definition, different from simply an unhealthy relationship, and I'm not sure I see it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 @Greywatch Shallan wasn't physical, but I thought she was constantly picking at Kaladin. Verbally, she was cruel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 That would be a juicy scene. Shallan and Kaladin refusing to speak to one another, oozing toxicity, with Adolin in the middle as the lover of one and the friend of the other trying to figure out what to do to mediate the situation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 Summon Maya and tell them to knock it off. I wonder if that's why Shallan was always aggravated with Kaladin because she likes him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywatch Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 hours ago, wotbibliophile said: @Greywatch Shallan wasn't physical, but I thought she was constantly picking at Kaladin. Verbally, she was cruel. Ah, okay. For some reason (the kyriarchy, probably), I was picturing it the other way around. I agree. In WoR and OB, I found she treats Kaladin very badly. Hence why I couldn't stand hardly any of their interactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbereth_gilthoniel Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 It would be amazing nice if Shallan could see the error in her ways in the next book, feel horrible about the way she's treated Kaladin, earnestly apologize and fix things with him AND then see them build a true friendship together. Because it would make me really sad if they couldn't ever be friends. I want to see friendly two-sided banter out of those two Are there a ton of people who think that there's been too much damage done to their relationship at this point for them to ever be friends? Because I'll be honest, while I definitely recognized that Shallan was a total brat to Kaladin and was so unnecessarily mean to him, I never thought of it as abusive. Although now that it's been brought up, I can totally see it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 Before Shallan can resolve SKA, she needs to solve VSR(Veil/Shallan/Radiant) first 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 18 hours ago, elbereth_gilthoniel said: It would be amazing nice if Shallan could see the error in her ways in the next book, feel horrible about the way she's treated Kaladin, earnestly apologize and fix things with him AND then see them build a true friendship together. Because it would make me really sad if they couldn't ever be friends. I want to see friendly two-sided banter out of those two But if she is treating him this way because of Helaran I feel like Kaladin also owes an apology. Killing someone's brother is not something that someone just gets over. Not quickly. I am pretty sure Helaran was Shallan's favorite brother, too. I am also pretty sure Kaladin does not expect to be forgiven for killing her brother. He let her rant about Amaran rather than correct her mistake. Also I said abusive because Shallan singles out Kaladin to pick on and everyone just goes along with it. No one calls Shallan out for her behavior. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, wotbibliophile said: But if she is treating him this way because of Helaran I feel like Kaladin also owes an apology. For killing a Shardbearer who was attacking his commanding officer and had just slaughtered his men? Someone who he had no idea who they were, let alone that he'd ever know anyone who knew them personally? I can see an apology for the lie in the chasms. For hiding what he'd done, even if it was a habit. But an apology for the act? I disagree. Edited August 7, 2018 by Calderis 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 No she disliked him from when she thought it would be great to demand the darkeyes boots at their first meeting. That's why I think it's either because she likes him and can't admit it to herself. Kal doesn't owe an apology because he was defending his lord. He didn't assassinate Heleran and didn't know Amaram was a sociopath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wotbibliophile Posted August 7, 2018 Report Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Calderis said: I can see an apology for the lie in the chasms. For hiding what he'd done, even if it was a habit. But an apology for the act? I disagree. I was actually considering one or both of these as reasons Kaladin owes an apology. For the lie and/or for killing her brother. He can still feel regret that she lost her brother and he (Kaladin) was the reason and that can be expressed as an apology even if he would not have done anything differently. ETA: 25 minutes ago, Angsos said: Kal doesn't owe an apology because he was defending his lord. The way I remember it, Kaladin didn't care about Amaram. He wanted to kill the shardbearer that killed his men. Edited August 7, 2018 by wotbibliophile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I would like to point people to the surgebinding chart. If Adolin is going to be an Edgedancer, I think his relationship with Shallan will have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) I assume you mean this chart? Spoiler We still don't really know anything about this chart. We don't know why Edgedancers and Lightweavers or Windrunners and Stonewards aren't connected to one another by a line (and there are a bunch of other orders that aren't connected by a line either, tbh, not sure what you mean). We just don't know what it means, so while that's an interesting idea, I'm not convinced. Or did you mean something else about the chart? Edited August 16, 2018 by Vissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 Yeah. That requires some explanation. A line connecting two orders does not mean they're going to mesh well individually, or as a group. There's a line connecting every neighboring order, and we've seen the history of the Windrunners and Skybreakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashspren Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I know some of the lines connecting the orders have to do with shared surges, but there are two that confuse me— the vertical lines connecting Windrunners and Edgedancers, and Stonewards and Lightweavers. Thoughts, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 The 'extra' lines on the Surgebinding chart have to do with Essences or maybe the Divine Attributes, not the Orders themselves: Quote William Anderson Why are do the Windrunners, Elsecallers, Stonewards, and Dustbringers have an extra connection on the Surgebinding diagram? Why do the Edgedancer, Skybreaker, Lightweaver, Willshaper's have a broken connection on the diagram? What are the dragon type things in the back of the diagram? Brandon Sanderson The dragon type things are a certain animal you've seen several places in the story so far. These connections will be explained eventually, but remember it's not the orders being connected, but instead their elemental representations. This diagram is very metaphysical, and some of the elements of it are cultural. source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 If those lines have anything to do with the Divine Attributes or any other traits inherent to the Order, then they have something to do with the Orders themselves, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashspren Posted August 16, 2018 Report Share Posted August 16, 2018 I think this chart is maybe our best bet for finding a connection. By elemental representation, do you think he’s talking about soulcasting properties or essence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 This is probably better off in a new thread, unless ScavellTane or someone else wants to make an argument that it relates to the status of the SKA love triangle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashspren Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 That’s probably a good idea... Also, to steer things back on topic, I’m doing a reread of Oathbringer right now, and found a part where she claims that her feelings for Kaladin are much stronger when she acts as Veil. I don’t think she fully realizes that Shallan and Veil are the same person. The moment she realizes that, it might throw a wrench in her decision between Adolin and Kaladin, especially because there is chemistry with both. However, she might just stay with Adolin just out of guilt— in fact, she might overplay her feelings. What might be really interesting is, if Shallan stays with Adolin for the first plot arc, we might see a red-blond-black haired teenager in the back five books. If Shallan then starts to love Kaladin... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 Unless one of them dies, this will probably be like the who killed Asmodean thread on Dragonmount that keeps going on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashspren Posted August 29, 2018 Report Share Posted August 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Angsos said: Unless one of them dies, this will probably be like the who killed Asmodean thread on Dragonmount that keeps going on forever. I’m betting that Adolin’s going to die, but after he and Shallan have a kid. Then, Shallan and Kaladin will get together. If that happens, though, I’m going to be really sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantabile21 Posted August 30, 2018 Report Share Posted August 30, 2018 Well since so many people are predicting that Adolin will die, maybe that might convince Brandon to surprise everyone and not kill him off? Pretty pretty please please with cherries on top?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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