MountainKing

[OB] How Book Five will End

57 posts in this topic

Note: This is pretty much a baseless theory

Book five will end with a board game(Rosharan version a chess) between Renarin and Odium/Odium's Champion. So Odium has to accept a challenge with Dalinar, but the radiants gaining rapidly with skill and the Fused are increasingly going crazy more often. Venli is convincing the Parshmen not to fight, and most of them don't want to fight anyways. The radiants will have Cultivation when she returns, and Dalinar is slowly getting access to Honor's abilities as a shard. The Radiants have captured one Unmade and another will soon turn traitor. Odium is quickly losing his troops. He has some Skybreakers, but once they realize there non-viod Dawnsingers they will leave Odium. The only way Odium can win is if he fights them in a challenge of skill and future sight not pure power. A board game, with limited moves but many possibilities.The only known Radiant with future sight is Renarin. Of course he won't be able to defeat Odium with future sight, because he only sees a limited amount of visions that Odium sees.

But we have Taravangian with his mental capability. If Dalinar uses spiritual adhesion to connect Taravangian to Renarin, then Renarin will have more capability to see possible futures. Dalinar, being able to give near infinite amount of stormlight to radiants, will give him the investiture needed to peer in the future. Maybe he will also gain the Truthwatchers rare ability to see the future. This gives Renarin the ability to see the possibilities that Odium can and cannot see, with the ability to understand them and the stormlight needed to see them. He will win.

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My mostly baseless theory:

Odium is bound to a battle of champions by his deal with Dalinar, right? The only person I can think of who would properly fill that role is Moash. (possible that he builds someone else up for it in book 4, but I doubt it) And this means Kaladin definitely ends up as champion for the good guys. Kaladin will win in a particularly dramatic moment, probably involving his 5th oath.

I don't know how things get to this point, but Dalinar will put together the pieces of Honor and fully Ascend to become Honor 2.0 or Unity or whatever. I'm not sure what the threat would be that demands such an action. Maybe the good guys do something to break their deal with Odium, which released the bond with Dalinar, so Dalinar has to rise up and hold him back.

Shallan will probably be doing something with the Unmade? Not sure what other epic task is left for her to do. Ghostbloods will probably be involved.

I think the humans and singers will have something of a truce. Both may be divided with large groups of each serving Odium?

I don't think Odium will "win" at the end of book 5. Either he will be forced back at the end of 5 or he will escape from Roshar, but in either case in an ominous "we know he'll be back stronger than ever" sort of way.

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1 hour ago, Jofwu said:

Shallan will probably be doing something with the Unmade? Not sure what other epic task is left for her to do. Ghostbloods will probably be involved.

In book 4, Shallan will discover a plot within the Ghostbloods. That book will end with her saving Iyatil's life from Mraize's assassination attempt. She takes Mraize's position in the Ghostbloods for book 5 and it ends with her planning multiple off-world trips including a semester studying at Silverlight University and practice painting at the Court of the Gods. That or something with Sja-Anat. 

Kaladin will fight Moash in the dual of champions and win, but will be mortally wounded and die soon after. He will never say the fifth ideal, but his final moments and determination that his men be led well will inspire Teft to say it and step into the role of leader of the Windrunners. 

Book six will begin with the prophecy from Puuli's grandfather coming true. 

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4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

Note: This is pretty much a baseless theory

Book five will end with a board game(Rosharan version a chess) between Renarin and Odium/Odium's Champion. 

A match of Tic-Tac-Toe against Taravangian, specifically.

That's why there's a 10-year timeskip between books 5 and 6.  It took that long for Mr.T to have a day dumb enough to lose a game.

Edited by Patrick Star
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I'm mostly in agreement with Jofwu. The only thing I would add is that I'm pretty confident that Adolin Kholin will be dead.

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Dear Shallan,

If my calculations are correct, you will receive this letter immediately after you saw Urithiru struck by lightning. First, let me assure you that I'm alive and well. I've been living happily these past 8 months in the year 1885.

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19 hours ago, Jofwu said:

Shallan will probably be doing something with the Unmade? Not sure what other epic task is left for her to do. Ghostbloods will probably be involved.

Ghostbloods, or at least Mraize have already been showed to be tied to Worldhopping. Shallan's path may lead her more into knowledge of the Cosmere, while the rest of the crew is dealing with the localized problem on Roshar.

Which would then setup...

19 hours ago, Jofwu said:

I don't think Odium will "win" at the end of book 5. Either he will be forced back at the end of 5 or he will escape from Roshar, but in either case in an ominous "we know he'll be back stronger than ever" sort of way

...Odium escaping from Roshar, and Shallan helping Rosharians get off world to continue the battle with him.

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I feel like any "Odium escaping" or stopgap maneuver at the end of book 5 would run counter to how it's supposed to be the end of the first "series" of the Stormlight Archive.  Like, ending an arc on a cliffhanger or failure doesn't seem to be a good ending.  Does that make sense?

Also, the series is still meant to be self contained.  Brandon doesn't want people to need to read another series to understand what's going on in book 6-10, so it's unlikely that it'll take place outside the Rosharan system.

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I'm still partial to having our 10 main Radiants take over for the Heralds at the end of book 5, only to break and return for another Desolation at the start of book 6, maybe 10-15 years later. We know that Ishtar created the Oathpact, so I'm expecting Dalinar's deal with Odium to mirror the original Oathpact.

Then in the back 5, we have our Heralds nee Radiants trying to end the cycle once and for all.

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18 minutes ago, RShara said:

I feel like any "Odium escaping" or stopgap maneuver at the end of book 5 would run counter to how it's supposed to be the end of the first "series" of the Stormlight Archive.  Like, ending an arc on a cliffhanger or failure doesn't seem to be a good ending.  Does that make sense?

Also, the series is still meant to be self contained.  Brandon doesn't want people to need to read another series to understand what's going on in book 6-10, so it's unlikely that it'll take place outside the Rosharan system.

My thoughts exactly R'Shara. I don't cross the idea off completely because maybe there's a solution in there that I just don't see... But I lean much more strongly towards thinking he will be trapped again. (for a time)

If for some reason he does get away, books 6-10 will be about his return to Roshar. Definitely don't see the series leaving Roshar.

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11 minutes ago, Rainier said:

I'm still partial to having our 10 main Radiants take over for the Heralds at the end of book 5, only to break and return for another Desolation at the start of book 6, maybe 10-15 years later. We know that Ishtar created the Oathpact, so I'm expecting Dalinar's deal with Odium to mirror the original Oathpact.

Then in the back 5, we have our Heralds nee Radiants trying to end the cycle once and for all.

I don't like that because renewing the Oathpact is a stopgap, and admitting they're failing, which seems a bad way to end an arc.  In addition, remember that the Oathpact binds the Fused, not Odium.

Also, I think that our current Radiants would last longer than 10-20 years (the original Heralds lasted centuries at first).  So unless they're still being tortured throughout arc 2, it doesn't really seem likely to me.

Edited by RShara
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I do not think there will be something mirroring the Oathpact. Things are different now: a Radiant bonded to a corrupted spren, a singer/listener being a Radiant. I expect a very different outcome.

And I don't think Adolin will die. But maybe, that's an expression of hope.

I do fear for Kaladin, though :( 

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I don't expect a new cast of heralds, I'm thinking we'll get one (Kaladin) and the scenario will be: "You need how much time to stop this once and for all? Then that's how long you will have. It should be easy compared to enduring Shallan's puns." 

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Here're a couple WoBs about how book 5 is an ending, and 6-10 are kind of a sequel or another series.

Quote

 

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

How many books are going to be in The Stormlight Archive?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Two five book arcs. Five will be an ending, and then six through ten will kind of be another story.

source

Quote

clayton_japes

Is the plan still to take a break after book five to do the modern day Mistborn trilogy or does the schedule of a new Stormlight book every two to three years mean that the second set of proper Mistborn books will fit in between those smaller gaps?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that's still the plan. Stormlight 5 is an end of a distinct arc, and Mistborn era three's outlines are getting very close to being done. This schedule makes a great deal of sense to me.

source
29 minutes ago, Elanmorin said:

I don't expect a new cast of heralds, I'm thinking we'll get one (Kaladin) and the scenario will be: "You need how much time to stop this once and for all? Then that's how long you will have. It should be easy compared to enduring Shallan's puns." 

Considering how Kaladin is, I don't see him breaking after 10-20 years.  The Heralds lasted centuries at first.  And I'll just keep saying it doesn't sound like a satisfactory ending to the arc. :)

Edited by RShara
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I would prefere Odium to escape his prison - a nice stop for Roshar without his influence, but I think we will believe he is gone for good.

Why ?

For me there is too many foreshading that Odium will try to team up with Bavadin, perhaps even to have a chance to get rid of the one Shard who was never supposed to be - Harmony.

This can be the reason, why Mistborn Season 3 is sheduled between arc 1 and 2 - to get a good arc on Scadrial.

 

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3 hours ago, RShara said:

Also, the series is still meant to be self contained.  Brandon doesn't want people to need to read another series to understand what's going on in book 6-10, so it's unlikely that it'll take place outside the Rosharan system.

I thought he has said that *currently* each series is self contained, but that they'd be joining up eventually. That's why I was thinking it'd be the perfect opportunity to see inter-series cooperation, or at the very least on screen worldhopping.

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1 hour ago, RShara said:

Here're a couple WoBs about how book 5 is an ending, and 6-10 are kind of a sequel or another series.

In that case, let's list out all of the currently known unfinished plot lines to see what might get resolved then. 

  • Duel of the champions
  • Dalinar as Unity
  • Sja-Anat's loyalty
  • Shallan's infiltration of the Ghostbloods
  • Shallan's mental health
  • Kaladin's inability to let go 
  • how Shardplate works
  • how Soulcasters and other ancient fabrials work
  • how Urithiru works/the Sibling
  • what Rock has been hiding from Bridge 4
  • how Rock shot a Shardbkw
  • Venli getting singers to turn against Odium
  • Szeth's cleansing of Shinovar
  • Mr T and the Diagram working with Odium
  • Moash killing heralds permanently
  • Azir leaving the coalition 
  • what's going on with Mayalarin
  • Nale siding with Odium
  • Puuli's grandfather's story

I'm sure I'm missing some, since that's just what I could think of off the top of my head. If people want to post some I forgot, I can add them to the list. Plenty of those will be resolved in book 4, but some should carry over. 

I'm increasingly convinced, however, that plenty will happen that we don't currently have any idea about. We still have two SA sized books before then, which, according to Brandon's outlining, is equivalent to six regular books. 

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Eventually yes, but not in SA. MB era 4, iirc.

 

I think the main plot of the Singers, Fused, the coalition, and Dalinar, Kaladin, and Shallan’s main and some secondary plot lines will be resolved.

Edited by RShara
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5 hours ago, RShara said:

I don't like that because renewing the Oathpact is a stopgap, and admitting they're failing, which seems a bad way to end an arc.

But what's the end of book 10? Defeating Odium, right? Splintering or trapping him somehow. Also, it feels like they're failing. They barely held on to Thaylen City, they've lost Alethkar, and their alliance is being undermined from the inside. I'm expecting a giant sacrifice at the end of book 5, something that stems the tide. It will end an arc, but it's not going to defeat Odium, just delay. The back 5 is where our heroes crawl from the brink of defeat to finally overcome a living god.

And that's really what I think: that the gap between books 5 and 6 will be the gap between Desolations. Something has to put a pause on the apocalypse, otherwise why have such a significant time gap?

In a way, it reminds me of Wheel of Time

Spoiler

The seals on the Dark One's prison were crumbling. They didn't break them fully until Rand was ready to confront him. Similarly, Odium's prison is crumbling, and the Desolations have returned. Reforming the Oathpact would be like trying to reforge the same prison, which I don't expect to work, but the ultimate defeat of the Dark One had to wait until the end of the series.

In Stormlight, I expect Dalinar to somehow mimic parts of the Oathpact to restrain Odium and buy the world more time. 

2 hours ago, hypatia said:

For me there is too many foreshading that Odium will try to team up with Bavadin, perhaps even to have a chance to get rid of the one Shard who was never supposed to be - Harmony.

That sounds more like Trell from the W&W books to me. I expect that to be revealed in the next series on Sel, not in Stormlight.

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Okay, but again, the Oathpact doesn't bind Odium in the first place.  It bound the Fused. And again, putting a pause on the desolation feels like a stop-gap, not a satisfactory conclusion to series 1. 

Yes, of course it feels like they're failing right now.  It's book 3/5. We won't get the arc climax and resolution until book 5.

I don't expect book 5 to end with defeating Odium.  But ending the threat of the Fused once and for all, uniting Roshar, and solving the dilemma of the Shin and the Listeners is reasonable, and would be a much better ending.

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I think it's going to end by saying, "The end of book five of The Stormlight Archive."

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10 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

I think it's going to end by saying, "The end of book five of The Stormlight Archive."

I figure there'll be an Ars Arcanum, at least.

9 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Dear Shallan,

If my calculations are correct, you will receive this letter immediately after you saw Urithiru struck by lightning. First, let me assure you that I'm alive and well. I've been living happily these past 8 months in the year 1885.

How have the mods not already shut down the forum? We're done here, kids. It's not going to get any better than that.

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I wonder/worry that books 6-10 are going to be like Radiant Generation 2.0.

Like maybe there's still characters around, but they've shifted to that mentor type of roll and we'll get some new faces or at least older young faces (I'm looking at you Lift.  You're the leading lady of the next gen.)

Other worry/wonder is that a lot of characters I love are going Beyond.  Will book 5 be the Culling Book?

As a crazy unlikely theory:  All the characters from the Interludes become the major characters.  Current major characters become interludes.

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Brandon has said that the ones who've survived will take a step back.  So they might be...not interludes, but fewer chapters.  I mean, Jasnah and Renarin are slated to be main characters, and they won't be exactly young (Jasnah especially). AndAsh and Taln are some of the oldest beings around the cosmere :D And I don't think they'll need much mentoring ;)

Dalinar's going to be 80 or so at that point, :o so staying at home running things sounds like it'd be a good idea for him.

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2 hours ago, RShara said:

Dalinar's going to be 80 or so at that point, :o so staying at home running things sounds like it'd be a good idea for him.

A calm night at home with a restless Dalinar..... ;)

"Navani, gemheart, where's my Shardplate?"

"What?"

"Where. Is. My. SHARDPLATE?"

"I...mmmm.... put it away."

"Where?"

"Why do you need to know?"

"I NEED it!"

"Dalinar Kholin, don't you think about going out in that highstorm. I've been planning this fabrial experiment for two months!"

"The world is in danger!"

"My evening's in danger!"

"Storms woman! We are talking about the greater unification of Roshar!"

"Greater unification?  I AM YOUR WIFE. We are the most unified thing you're ever gonna get!"

Edited by Zellyia
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