Physical Colour is not the Fuel for Awakening *Mild WoR Spoilers*

[TheArcanist]

Wait. The connection here is investiture. The process of consuming or "burning" it isn't exactly the same as with Shardblades, but Nightblood attacks something and fuels itself by burning through Investiture, and life is maintained by Innate Investiture. In the removal of Investiture, the Spiritual/Cognitive connection to the Shard that gives that particular planet's Investiture is broken. The real question is- how do we define the difference between the Investiture of Breath and the Investiture of being a sentient lifeform?

[Swimmingly]

The first is part of the second, I think. Nalthians simply have the ability to detach that bit using a Command.

[TheArcanist]

I think I just figured out a way to quantify what, exactly, is the comparison between Breath and Stormlight, and thus how they deal with things.

 

We know Vasher is living on Roshar, and that Stormlight is a suitable substitute for Breath. So, a good question to ask Brandon is how much Stormlight Vasher needs a week to survive without depleting his stores. This will help us determine a Breath-to-Stormlight ratio.

[Swimmingly]

I sense a RAFO.

[TheArcanist]

Perhaps, but I still think it's worth asking- if just to see that this is a step in the right direction.

[Swimmingly]

Of course! Those RAFO cards are badges of honour!

[TheArcanist]

Indeed. In the meantime, what do you think is the connection between Shardblades, Nightblood, and what it is they attack?

[Swimmingly]

Shardblades seem to cut the spirit. In inanimate objects, this is a one-to-one connection with the physical. In living things, this first severs the individual life from a living thing, then cuts the inanimate flesh. However, since we know that life can be brought back when all spiritual connections are severed, the spiritual might simply be an abstraction of the cognitive, which is itself an abstraction of the physical, with information and Investiture moving back and forth between levels.

Nightblood seems to corrupt/destroy Investiture. Not sever it cleanly such as a Shardblade does. Nightblood can destroy just about anything, presumably because everything in the Cosmere we've seen was created by a Shard (possibly barring Hoid), and so Nightblood can destroy the presence of a Shard (Investiture) from their history. Shardblades can destroy much smaller spiritual presences, which manifests as dividing objects or removing life from things.

So, in conclusion, I think Shardblades and Nightblood have a relationship similar to that of a hacksaw and a crane-mounted wrecking ball.

[TheArcanist]

I was thinking scalpel vs. sludge hammer, but hacksaw vs. crane-mounted wrecking ball works too. So if all of this is true [and I'm assuming it is] then what is the relation between colour, Investiture, and Spiritual/Cognitive connections on Nalthis?

[Sabrina Stormshard]

I think you may have something with the Roshar/Nalthis link. After all WoB is that

Zahel = Vasher

is fueling himself with Stormlight instead of Breath

 

and I remember someone asked Brandon if the smoke from the eyes from a shardblade wound was like the black smoke from Nightblood and he said it was a very clever question or somesuch.

 

The colour draining of both Breath and Stormlight/Shardblade death is therefore a very interesting note

[Gelrad]

In Warbreaker the first Return was around 400 years before the story, and the first one was where the Edgli flowers grow.

At the time of the story there are Returned all over the world, but so is the color from the flowers...

 

So the flowers colors are needed to make a Returned or the Shard arrived 400 years before...

[Pechvarry]

I really like this idea. It could be that you are essentially stapling another object's spiritual aspect onto whatever you want awakened.

But then you have to explain Lifeless, who burn their own color and yet seem quite cognitive, as well as apparently still possessing a spiritweb.

[Aonar]

Lifeless are... strange. When I started putting this theory together I originally had a section on them, but I wasn't really confident enough in it to post. 

 

When someone dies, their body must lose the most part of their Spiritual Aspect (seeing how we know there is an Afterlife in the Cosmere), but not necessarily their Cognitive, as the Cognitive doesn't just reflect how they think of themselves, but also how others think of them.

 

We know the Breath used to create a Lifeless in a sense "replaces" the Innate Investiture that once made them human. We also know Awakening a Lifeless uses its own colour as fuel. But the energy from this is just going right back into the Lifeless, so what exactly is happening?

 

Based on my current theory about how Awakening works, I think that the Breath picks up the remaining pieces of their Spiritual and Cognitive Aspects and shapes them and reinforces them until they are a workable whole again. It gets the energy for this by severing the non-essential aspects of the Spiritweb. Namely, colour. The Cognitive "shadow" of other's perceptions is what allows some skills to transfer to the Lifeless, and allows it some degree of awareness, especially when the Lifeless is made from someone with particularly strong Cognitive and Spiritual Aspects, like a famous Returned (Clod/Arsteel). This way the Lifeless would still have a Spiritweb, albeit a very weak and simplistic one. 

 

Like I said I'm not overly confident in this bit, but it's how I've tried to fit the Lifeless into the theory.

[kaladamSB]

Are all colors made from the ToE or are they just the best thing to use?

[Kurkistan]

@Aonar

 

That's near-enough to how I myself modeled Lifeless back in the day.

 

Are all colors made from the ToE or are they just the best thing to use?

 

Option 2. Recall that creatures are drained when they become Lifeless, and that black stones can be drained.

 

ToE are the best thing to use, as you say.

 

Source:

 

3:15:25 (EHyde)

Q. I was curious about the dye in Hallandren, the Tears of Edgli. So, that can be used to make a whole bunch of different colors, right? Does the flower come in different colors? Or is that something in the dye process, or-?

A. The flower comes in different colors.

Q. And it dyes all fiber types the same?

A. It does not dye all fiber types the same.

Q. In theory, if they had synthetic fibers would it work on them?

A. I would say yes.

Q. Is it more fuel-efficient for Awakening?

A. Is what more-?

Q. Like, color used in Awakening-?

A. Yes. Those dyes are very effective for Awakening.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Aonar]

Wow. Okay. I guess that's another reason why I should get around to actually reading the whole thing.

 

It's interesting that more than one person has come to the same conclusion about them separately though. Has anyone asked Brandon for more info about how they work?

[kaladamSB]

It seems to me that anyone on Nalthis has the ability to Awaken objects, rather than needing the Nahel Bond like on Roshar, or a bead of lerasium like on Scadrial.

I feel like the ToE are the link needed to Endowment in order to Awaken. The color acts as a temporary bond and allows the user to Awaken, much like lerasium allows people to use allomancy.

The hole in this theory however is that not all color is from the ToE apparently

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

There is some rumor that:

 

The ToE / Hallendren is right over Endowment's underground shardpool.

 

Oh, and I made that white with a white background because I can't work spoilers, lol.

 

But I don't remember if that is speculation or WoB, or maybe just something my brain invented while I was sleepless with my toddler twins.

 

 

Edit: And then I figured out how to work spoilers.  Lucky guess FTW!

Edited April 15, 2014 by Horatio Spifflewicket

[Glaring at the Survivor]

Guess what? My dad, of all people, just pointed out something about Elantrians.

Before the "map" was fixed, guess what color their skin was? GREY! Elantris spoilers

And afterwards, it was silver. Which is what? A metallic version of... GREY!

Oy. Lots'a grey goin' 'round the cosmere.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Stroniax

[Glaring at the Survivor]

I don't think that's how it works. He makes light prismatic, not objects, and Awakening drains the color from objects.

 

Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 387973120 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 431556912 bytes) in Unknown on line 0

But what is color other than reflected light?

[Aonar]

But what is color other than reflected light?

The fundamental difference lies in the Spiritual Realm. Observable colour is unimportant. A white wall with a blue light being shone on it is still a white wall... it's just a white wall that looks blue. Light conditions don't matter in Awakening, it's just as easy to use BioChroma at night as it is to use it at midday. Awakening isn't a system based on light, it's based on colour. The light an object is reflecting and the light an object can reflect are completely different things.

[Glaring at the Survivor]

How do we know a blue light wont provide color necessary?

Ah, whatever. I still think my other... links… were/are accurate.

[Youngy]

So I went looking for the quote which said that Breath is the Investiture of Endowment within Nalthians... But couldn't find it, so I assume that it has not been added to the Theoryland Database yet. What I was planning to say using that was that the color reflected by a being must have been from the Investiture that a Shard placed into a person (ie. Preservation on Scadrial)... This was going to then say that Shardblades were cutting the Spiritual aspect of limbs - including the investiture from a Shard - which caused the limbs to go grey...

But then I found this instead.

 

 

 

CHAOS ()

Why does giving your Breath to another person not require color? Every other Command does.

BRANDON SANDERSON

I thought I answered this in the book. You use your own color.

 

So, its not actually the lack of Breath that causes people to lose their color, but the fact that their color is used for the Awakening in passing the Breath to another person...
Which really tells us, before we can determine what the link between Shardblade cut limbs and Drab is... We need to know what color is actually used for in Awakening.

Interesting that it is also this piece of Endowment within Nalthians that causes a cognitive connection between the people (what causes the life sense, I would assume)... 

It could be that it is this cognitive connection that causes the color? The severed limb has no cognitive or spiritual connection to the rest of the body - so it loses color. A Drab has no cognitive connection to anything, due to that lack of spark of Endowment, and so it becomes dull...

[Shardmancer]

I very much like this theory.. I believe we will find many other connections like this throughout the Cosmere if we look carefully. 

 

As we know Sanderson very likely does something like this intentionally- grey described specifically is the give away ++.. Great Catch

[Moogle]

Interesting that it is also this piece of Endowment within Nalthians that causes a cognitive connection between the people (what causes the life sense, I would assume)...

 

WoR spoilers:

Lifesense works on non-Nalthians, which suggests that it's less lifesense and more Investiture-sense. It's never mentioned, but I wonder if the God King 'detects' stronger on people's lifesense.