Long Game 43: Under the Banner of Adonalsium

[Megasif]

Wow, really busy in here. So much to catch up on. 

Village leans on stick and MM for now and slight villager for randuir from the quick skim.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

13 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

I agree. The only possible attackers would be players on their world, and on Taldain, I think.

Players on Braize can attack anyone, no matter what world the target is on.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Good catch.  Have an upvote!

[Stick.]

12 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Players on Braize can attack anyone, no matter what world the target is on.

Right, missed that, thanks!

Though since it needs two charges of investiture in exchange, I think it's safe to assume that only Hoid can target anybody while in Braize this cycle since the rest of us would have only one charge to spend. Not sure if this random piece of info is useful to us though lol sorry

o wait hoid cant kill

Edited March 15, 2018 by _Stick_

[The Young Pyromancer]

Hoid can't because he can't kill.

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer
Clarity

[The Young Pyromancer]

To add to the mind games, Survival can use their ability to hide from any scans.  LOL

Or to hide others.

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[Stick.]

8 minutes ago, TheYoungPyromancer said:

Hoid can't because he can't kill.

Right. So nobody on Braize can successfully attack anybody outside it this cycle.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Or next.

[MonsterMetroid]

next night cycle kriss could if she took two charges today then traveled during the day cycle but I doubt she would do that

[The Young Pyromancer]

No, she couldn't because the attacking would take an action.  It that correct, @Seonid?

[Magestar]

1 hour ago, MonsterMetroid said:

MonsterMetroid: 100% jealous Alvron doesnt follow him

I feel you.   

In other news, lotsa people watching this thread.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Magestar

[Elbereth]

Regarding Bard/Orlok's discussion of announcing investiture:

@Young Bard, the issue I see with saying what we're going for is that if a Shard does get released despite announcements (which seems likely, as I'm nearly certain not everyone will announce), is that the eliminators now have an excellent idea of who may be holding which Shard. I'd rather not give them that extra information, though I can see how it could benefit the village if a Shardholder decides to keep their Shard. 

@Orlok Tsubodai, one of your counterpoints to Bard is that Shards are likely to be in the village hands if released now, and if later may be taken by a conversion team. I would point out that said Shards have very little guarantee of staying in the village's hands: either they're passed around in order to stop conversion (letting them fall arguably more easily into eliminator hands, as a concerted effort would have to use up all or nearly all of their actions), or they aren't (in the case of, say, Steeldancer getting Odium) and the sooner they're released the sooner we have to deal with them in addition to the conversion teams. 

@Droughtbringer, did you get any response from Seonid about PMs with dead players? 

@Orlok Tsubodai, I'd also point out that those converted are highly unlikely to make any difference to their reads, particularly if they have stated reads, unless they're forced to back down slowly on a teammate they were absolutely certain was evil (and if so, that'll be obvious regardless of stated reads). Arguably, having everyone announce their reads makes it easier for coverted players to stay consistent. 

@TheYoungPyromancer, regarding total number of elims, I agree that the teams total will have slightly more than you'd expect from an evil team, but not much more. Seonid has made the mistake before of balancing every faction in the game except the village, and I doubt he'll do so again. 

@Young Bard, the eliminator teams holding a Shard is definitely more useful than you think. First, Hoid and Khrissalla can't be converted, so they could hold a Shard without fear. (Shards grant an extra action, too, so they could still use the Shard and simultaneously convert.) Secondly, I highly doubt that any Shard has a win condition wherein their best incentive is to reveal the evil team directly to the thread. That would be broken, and I trust the people who went over this game to have thought of that. Also, "passing Shards between players who we believe are Village" works only so long a) as we're right, b. those people aren't known to the public so they don't die, c) those people are able to coordinate regardless. That seems rather unlikely. 

I'm about to get on a plane, so will finish this post when I land. (Including RP, I promise.)

[The Young Pyromancer]

Alv is following me... But of course, if I am him, that would be easy to do...

EDIT ninjad

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[Seonid]

4 minutes ago, TheYoungPyromancer said:

No, she couldn't because the attacking would take an action.  It that correct, @Seonid?

If khriss used one action tonight to pick up two charges of investiture, then worldhopped to braize during the day,  she could use the shardworld's action to attack anywhere that night.

[Stick.]

2 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

 

@Droughtbringer, did you get any response from Seonid about PMs with dead players? 

Not Drought, but PMs last until one of the players dies. So you cant have PMs with the dead.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Wait.  Where does it say a shard gets an extra action? @Elbereth

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[Elbereth]

Quote

Each Shard confers a powerful Shardic ability upon the bearer that can be used during the Night Turn, and gains an extra action each Cycle that can be used in either Turn.

 

[The Young Pyromancer]

Cool.  I missed that.

I see you lurkers!  What are your thoughts on planets?  Does anyone want to rank them?

@Drake Marshall, @Devotary of Spontaneity, @TheMightyLopen, @Steeldancer

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer

[Elbereth]

@randuir, the village can't win on turn 1. We could potentially win on N1 if we managed to lynch one of Hoid/Khrissalla and kill the other, but all Shards being in containment isn't the only requirement for sudden death. 

I'll note regarding the sudden death win conditions of Hoid and Khrissalla that both are nearly impossible (particularly Khriss', as I recall, since we could just lynch any world she invested) and rely on the survival of a single person, so are highly unlikely to be shot for unless someone is particularly risky or idealistic (looking at Bard and Drought, in particular, as likely candidates for that sort of move). 

@Magestar, I'm confused what you think Survival would be a good intermediary for, and particularly since communication in this game is so limited. 

---

Elaria winced at the loud voice nearby. I'm making it so people like you can be employed here, she thought to herself. 

She didn't say it, though, because she was occupied with another thought. Shards could change you, everyone knew that. But what about bits of them? If she pulled a charge from a Shard, would that affect her? Would it influence her in exactly the same way as its parent Shard, or did tiny bits each have individual effects? 

She grimaced. It was doubtful that anyone would let her take charges while Survival was gone, though. She'd just have to take them in secret. But how would...

"Hey!" she yelled, opening her eyes and sitting up suddently. "Come back here, I need help!"

---

@MonsterMetroid if your character isn't too far away, feel free to respond, and the same goes for anyone who wants to be in the vicinity. 

I look forward to coming back to several more pages when I land... 

[Seonid]

Rules clarifications - A Vessel who was once a Researcher can still steal charges of investiture from contained Shards. However, if the Shard they targeted is released from containment, they are eligible to be randomly assigned it. Essentially - anytime a random player would get a Shard, it will go to a random non-Vessel player unless one is not available. (I reserve the right to remove inactive players from the list of those who are eligible to receive Shards as well.)

Autonomy's aspects give them full access to the doc of any planet they are invested in - autonomy can talk anonymously in the doc as if they were there. All players in a Shardworld doc will be listed by the GM in the header, but autonomy will be listed by the name of their aspect. (If autonomy is present on the world as well as having an aspect, both the aspect and the player will be posted)

[Fifth Scholar]

Aaah! Posts! At a track meet, so I can’t really respond to anything. I will definently make a long post tonight, though. For now I’d just like to say that I strongly support the village releasing Cultivation ASAP, just to prevent people from pouncing on Odium and shattering her immediately. More thoughts to come in ~4 hours.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

@TheYoungPyromancer Lopen isn't even in this game.

I would say that Silverlight is the most important planet until it gets destroyed or most of the Shards get released. Roshar will be the next most useful, as we can use its ability to gain a charge of Cultivation's Investiture, which we can then use to create PMs. Or we could use it to acquire a charge of Odium's Investiture and kill a player on Roshar. If everyone did that, we could theoretically kill everyone on Night 1 except for Survival. The game would then end in a victory for the 17th Shard. While this isn't likely to happen, it might be worthwhile/amusing to try. Scadrial isn't going to be too useful until the kill roles start coming out or if you think you're going to be lynched. Nalthis and Taldain are more useful to Hoid and Khrissala than to the 17th Shard. I think it's a bit early in the game for Braize to be useful as it requires two charges of Investiture. If we really want to turn this into a murder-fest, we're better off going to Roshar.

[Magestar]

19 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

@Magestar, I'm confused what you think Survival would be a good intermediary for, and particularly since communication in this game is so limited. 

Good question. I was actually thinking about the logistics of this and I'm not sure how much sense it actually makes. I thought it was a really good idea before the game started, though.   Mainly, I remembered it being brought up in the last game, and thought "That's a good idea.  Intermediaries are cool!  I should bring it up this game."  

Maybe not such a good idea though.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Magestar
I have a thing for however and it doesn't always belong in my sentences

[livinglegend]

36 minutes ago, Megasif said:

Village leans on stick and MM

Haha. I had to read this a couple times to understand what you were saying.

As far as whether we reveal what investiture we are siphoning. I think I understand why the 17th shard (it feels weird calling us the village in this particular game) would want to keep that information hidden. If i understand correctly, the downside is when and if the shards are released, Hoid and Kriss have a better shot at converting someone who is holding a shard before they change win conditions and thus add a shard to their team. However, if we all were committed to our sudden death win condition, we could agree to return the shard immediately (before we could be targeted by Hoid or Krissala ipso facto our win condition is still 17th shard) and thus nullify that danger.

There are currently enough shards in containment that the twenty of us that are not Hoid or Kriss can take one charge each and still not release a single shard from containment. This works in our favor in a few different ways.

1 Hoid and Kriss out themselves if they are the only two who do not take a charge. This requires Survival to take a charge to prove that Hoid and Kriss in fact did not take any. Also, we need the full team to take an action this turn. We have about ten hours left to make this coordination work.

2 Hoid and Kriss take a charge. This releases one or two shards. The downside here is they might not have been a part of the siphoners who released the shard. This is where the commitment to put the shard back becomes very important. The real benefit here, is Hoid and Kriss lose their opportunity to convert on the first night which could pose a serious handicap to their team.

We could even take the second option further by attacking those who do not return their shard. This is only if we are married to our sudden death win condition, which is farther than I want to go. I'm a little torn on this point because I want to be honest and play to my immediate win condition. This is the best way I can figure to ensure my team (and the majority of the players) win the game. In the interest of fun, I (and I imagine a lot of you) am playing this game because I want to play with a shard. Playing strictly to my win condition seems less good here as any of us could be crippling ourselves later. 

I endorse using this claiming strategy for exactly this cycle so as put both Adolnasium's Chosen and Standard of Harmony one turn behind, then figuring it out from there.

As my part of this plan I will announce I would like to siphon a charge of Ambition for obvious reasons, but since that is such a popular charge I will instead siphon a charge of Odium.

Now to read the page and a half of ninja's...

[The Young Pyromancer]

Oops.  He was watching the thread, so I thought he was playing.  You know, I bet the Elim Docs are VERY lonely right now.

I like Roshar.  I might move there, to start the Interplanetary Information Trading ShopTM.

EDIT double ninjad

Edited March 15, 2018 by TheYoungPyromancer