hoiditthroughthegrapevine

I Hate Whitesand Volume 2 [spoilers for Whitesand Vol. 2]

44 posts in this topic

If I went on a rant about the artwork, I would never stop.  Suffice to say I agree with everything you said, and I much prefer the new artist and hope he does the 3rd one as well.  I've only seen the  artwork people have posted but it's enough to make me hate it, and not buy the volumes.

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4 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Not looking forward to volume 3 at all, hopefully the illustrator that finished Volume 2 will be back to do all of Volume 3, his artwork, while not perfect, at least has the continuity down and the weird era straddling backgrounds are toned down substantially.

Peter has said that we will be getting an entirely new artist for Volume 3. 

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine I am not a visual artist by any means. I love to sing and write and my talents for drawing in just about any medium are poor...

That said, seeing my thoughts on the GN put into words by someone who does this stuff for a living feels absolutely vindicating. If it weren't for the hoopla app letting me borrow these from my library for free, if not have read them, as the sample of side by side prose and GN that AU gave me (my first exposure to both versions) I immediately wanted the prose. 

Having read both... I'll stick to the prose thank you very much. 

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20 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

C-Continuity, continuity, continuity. This illustrator, not content to represent the lossandians as straddling merely three different eras (classical greece in the Diem, Loius the XIV's France in the Admiral's quarters and Florence from the Italian Renaissance in the Artisan's quarters), also unfortunately decided to be free and loose with the simple particulars of a given scene (like the one spoilered below where Ais kils the Kerztian assassin). She fires all five of her arrows at the Kertzian assassin at point blank range, but how they are depicted embedded in the head of the assassin doesn't make any sense, he looks like a pincushion. He has arrows in both temples, one up his nose and an arrow in each eye! How the arrows are arranged it looks like he was hit by 5 different archers from five different positions.

The most irritating thing to me (off the top of my head), for whatever reason, was from the first assassination attempt on Kenton. There's a dramatic panel where he gets hit with an arrow. Clearly pierces him right in the chest, with blood immediately visible... And then the arrow/wound are completely absent from the rest of the artwork. After the battle there's no mention or sign that he was wounded at all.

My best guess is that the arrow was supposed to just graze him. Enough to draw some blood and make him yelp, but not enough to slow him down or be worth mentioning afterwards. But the artist just did his thing and ignored the inconsistency.

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I completely agree that the art in the final chapter was a very welcome close to the novel. While it wasn't a flashy or "colorful" as the first artist's work, I much prefered the simpler, more consistent style as opposed to the "cram as much color and as many things in here but draw it all blurry" visuals.

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I agree with all of this.  Which sucks, because I really, really want to love the graphic novel.  But the consistency, the fact that many of the characters are visually indistinguishable from each other is just too jarring.  The final chapter art was redemptive, but getting two thirds of the way through a story before getting decent art is too much.

 

And much of the plot feels too rushed.  Elements come out of nowhere without any of the build up you got from the prose. Spoilers of course.

Spoiler

Baon's reveal with the pistols.  Came out of nowhere.  And no resolution or fallout.  Just ridiculous.

 

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It's very hard to perceive, visually, with all the grain, and I'm really wondering about some of the poses. A lot.

It looks like an in-universe theatrical play. Characters turning - right leg forward, turned 90 degrees to the right. Characters sitting - inclined 45 degrees sideways towards each other. A movement as natural as Egyptian wall paitings. Feet put across each other while walking, so the person should be either swinging right and left, or walking like a model on a podium, I'm not exactly sure.

Edited by XenosHg
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8 hours ago, XenosHg said:

It's very hard to perceive, visually, with all the grain, and I'm really wondering about some of the poses. A lot.

It looks like an in-universe theatrical play. Characters turning - right leg forward, turned 90 degrees to the right. Characters sitting - inclined 45 degrees sideways towards each other. A movement as natural as Egyptian wall paitings. Feet put across each other while walking, so the person should be either swinging right and left, or walking like a model on a podium, I'm not exactly sure.

And there's stuff like this, where I swear the # of limbs doesn't match up with the # of heads...

0wvdGTe.jpg

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It's the left side: someone's leg is in the picture right above a bag of sand. That looks like an elbow, but it's a knee; you can tell because the limb ends in a boot that's unfortunately the same color as the bag. So while there aren't really any extra limbs, it looks like there's an extra arm.

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If you say so... (how is he staying upright?!).  Also their eyes, teeth, and the inside of their mouths are the same color as their skin....

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4 minutes ago, Elenion said:

It's the left side: someone's leg is in the picture right above a bag of sand. That looks like an elbow, but it's a knee; you can tell because the limb ends in a boot that's unfortunately the same color as the bag. So while there aren't really any extra limbs, it looks like there's an extra arm.

It doesn't help that that dude on the lefts hand position (the one who the leg is popping out from behind)  hand makes it look like someone else's hand is coming out of front and center's elbow. 

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9 hours ago, Calderis said:

It doesn't help that that dude on the lefts hand position (the one who the leg is popping out from behind)  hand makes it look like someone else's hand is coming out of front and center's elbow. 

Yeah, and the seam between the same guy's torso and arm looks the same as the place where the leg comes out from behind him.

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So in other words, it's a hot mess.  A couple of times.

reQqwmk.jpg

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Ok, so this is just drawing out a bit of detail from the images that @RShara posted, but holy crap, this art is so bad.

This is the same guy from the two panels that are part of the same scene, first look at this expression, he's totally pissed off at his boot!

Whitesand_Hate_001.jpg.8a1a39f3c4c56118b3384b3f3b0e6a1f.jpg

Now, a bit later, look at this sand master's hand, what the heck is going on with this????

Whitesand_Hate_002.jpg.4e0dc640d2f8c09b3dd2517449119cf1.jpg

Buddy better slatrify away his arthitic claw.

So this is really the scene where the ridiculously poor execution of White Sand the graphic novel became unbearable, when Kenton is offering Khriss a drink of water:

Whitesand_Waterskin_01.jpg.81d84cd4840fdb67fc919dcd04aff7e0.jpg

Ok, kind of hokey, but look, is the illustrator actually drawing a ribbon of sand?

Whitesand_Waterskin_02.thumb.jpg.add73227d1c3bcf3dcdd60f31acdc855.jpg

No, it was just a big group of magic plus signs. Hey Look, Khriss is across the room and needs some water, wait no she is going to poke the non-existant sand while she is mere inches away from Kenton's face and Kenton is sending the water skin somewhere off panel. Oh, wait, no, she's all the way across the room again. Oh no wait, she's sitting in a chair and Kenton's water skin is back to it's usual spot. Now is the moment we've all been waiting for, Kenton drinking water like a sloppy cro-magnon. Brilliant scene. If I hadn't read the prose version I would have had no idea what in Damnation was going on here.

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6 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Ok, so this is just drawing out a bit of detail from the images that @RShara posted, but holy crap, this art is so bad.

This is the same guy from the two panels that are part of the same scene, first look at this expression, he's totally pissed off at his boot!

Whitesand_Hate_001.jpg.8a1a39f3c4c56118b3384b3f3b0e6a1f.jpg

Now, a bit later, look at this sand master's hand, what the heck is going on with this????

Whitesand_Hate_002.jpg.4e0dc640d2f8c09b3dd2517449119cf1.jpg

I'm more concerned with wtf happened to his eye and his 5th finger.

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To be fair to the illustrator, in the first panel, his pinky is bent. But the 2nd panel, looks like he has a bad case of worms, wriggling under his skin where his tendons should be. Poor guy.

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Can't see it.  Looks like he has 3 fingers and a thumb :)

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On 3/12/2018 at 1:53 AM, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Hey Look, Khriss is across the room and needs some water, wait no she is going to poke the non-existant sand while she is mere inches away from Kenton's face and Kenton is sending the water skin somewhere off panel. Oh, wait, no, she's all the way across the room again. Oh no wait, she's sitting in a chair and Kenton's water skin is back to it's usual spot. Now is the moment we've all been waiting for, Kenton drinking water like a sloppy cro-magnon. Brilliant scene.

This perfectly captures how I frequently feel in these graphic novels. :lol: LOTS of scenes could be described like this. I don't hate them like you do, but there's certainly a lot to critique.

Makes me wonder if the folks at Dragonsteel and/or Dynamite feel the same way and that's why a new artist showed up out of nowhere.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the chapter 6 artwork.

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I guess this must be the one graphic novel when my complete obliviousness when it comes to artistic details actual enhances my enjoyment instead of lessens it. I didn't notice any of these inconsistencies. 

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31 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on the chapter 6 artwork.

The last part is a lot more readable, the characters are more consistently drawn, the continuity from panel to panel works, and the strange historical mish-mash of background detail is toned down. My biggest complaint is that the artwork of the first illustrator pulls you out of the story. I didn't really like the first volume, but the scene with Delius was so bad that I actually had to force myself to read the second volume.

To be fair to the illustrator of the first part, he is a talented illustrator but a poor cartoonist. The Mastrell's path section of volume 1 was really well done, his drawings of the natural environments are amazing, but I don't think he was given enough direction for creating Lossand environments. Fantasy art of a novel environment that is just a hodgepodge of items from different and unrelated historical time periods breaks the spell of an alien environment. I love graphic novels, and I love Brandon's work, but I could barely force myself to finish this one.

The 2nd cartoonist's art is admittedly more cartoony, but is highly readable and doesn't take you out of the story. It's not perfect but is far superior in terms of not getting in the way of the story.

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57 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I guess this must be the one graphic novel when my complete obliviousness when it comes to artistic details actual enhances my enjoyment instead of lessens it. I didn't notice any of these inconsistencies. 

I didn't have too much trouble with the art itself. The details being mentioned here didn't catch my eye for the most part, and several of them I still don't have a problem with after they're pointed out. 

For me the main problem is that the art sometimes interferes with my sense of what's going on. Things like that one with Khriss being in a different position every other frame. That one's minor, but it is the sort of thing I noticed.

Another example that comes to mind is the scene where Baon reveals who he is to Khriss. Jon Acron and Cynder walk in on them and act super weird about it. They didn't seem to overhear anything, and while they may be suspicious of Baon they've never acted like that around him before? I was just totally lost as to why they acted so awkwardly.

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54 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

For me the main problem is that the art sometimes interferes with my sense of what's going on. Things like that one with Khriss being in a different position every other frame. That one's minor, but it is the sort of thing I noticed.

I didn't even notice any of those. I had to actively force myself to pay attention to the pictures at all and not just read the dialogue. Graphic novels just aren't my thing. 

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1 hour ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

I didn't even notice any of those. I had to actively force myself to pay attention to the pictures at all and not just read the dialogue. Graphic novels just aren't my thing. 

This is how I read graphic novels too.  I had to start over after realizing that I had blown through 50% of the book in just a few minutes because I was only reading dialogue.  

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Well, I  have no experience with visual arts and I'm rather poor at them, so I sort of assumed that was a proper graphic novel and there was something wrong with me. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one.

Really, a graphic novel isn't a good medium for a story mostly about politics. It should convery action better, but it actually fails totally at that, as I can rarely grasp what's actually going on. And yes, sand mastery was depicted much better in earlier installments. Now kenton just sort of glows.

Also the art change was very off-putting. Even I noticed it, and I pay little attention to art.

Well, what can I say, I've never been really into graphicc novels, and I was in it only for the story, so the art problems don't spoil it much for me.

On 7/3/2018 at 8:33 PM, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

 I am compelled by forces greater than myself to read it,

 

I lolled at this

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