Zape

Why is surgery a masucline art ?

35 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Our real-life gender roles and traditions have very little to do with "women being considered intellectually inferior."  (To be sure, it is a cause, but not the only cause)  What do clothing norms, behavior expectations, anatomical acceptableness (toplessness, soles of feet, middle finger) have to do with intelligence.  

I, for one, think that this is a masterful way of sidestepping biases and getting people to look at these things in a new light.  They see all of these bizarre social norms in Roshar, and think "that's silly."  Then, maybe, they start to tie it to our world and start to wonder, "why do we think girls can't do math?" or "why is it unmasculine to cry?"

my problem lies exactly in what you described mainly that Brandon has taken the "egalitarian" route embracing tabula rasa when in realty there are well proven biological differences between the minds of man and women this does not make one sex superior to other some thing i want to stress very hard however ignoring the biological differences makes it hard for me to suspend my disbelief man tend to be more object oriented while women tend to be more people oriented this was studied even in couple week old babies where males preferred cars and building blocks while woman preferred dolls which can bee seen in the adult world too with males preferring fields like mathematics physics or engineering while woman prefer hr roles psychology and teaching now it should be noted that culture most likely has influence in this regard however even in university's with massive programs to push woman into scientific fields the results were mixed and a lot of woman dropped out this is of course all general statistical data however i simply find it unlikely that there would not be a significant percent of lighteyed man who would be interested in neutral sciences and engineering this could of course simply be solved by saying that rosharian males and females have identical brain structure

I should again make absolutely clear that those differences do not make one sex superior

some sources for my claims

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/21st-century-aging/201209/differences-between-men-and-women

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-mens-brains-are-wired-differently-than-women/

also the work of jordan peterson although i will admit his papers are beyond my layman's understanding of the subject

Edited by Zape
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3 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

This is a cultural tradition that does not exist in all societies.  The fact that it seems so obvious to us just underscores how deeply rooted these things are.  

Trying to avoid spoilers, but let's just say that, with regards to this topic, the last part of Oathbringer will be very interesting for you to read.  

well roshar dosn't actually exist so obviously that might not apply there where outside of a tribal society are female breasts considered normal to show ?

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Both of the first two articles you linked are blogs, not articles, and possibly not peer reviewed.  The third link seems to be behind a paywall or subscription wall, as it's just blank.

In addition, while both of the first articles talk about how male and female brains are different (which no one is trying to disprove), I didn't see anything about even babies and small children preferring blocks over dolls or whatever.  Actually, there are substantial studies that prove the opposite.

http://www.powells.com/book/pink-brain-blue-brain-9780618393114?partnerid=31605

https://www.recode.net/2017/8/11/16127992/google-engineer-memo-research-science-women-biology-tech-james-damore

 

The fact that in some tribal societies, breasts are not a form of sexual focus proves that it's a cultural, rather than biological construct.  If it were hardwired in our brains, then all humans would have the same impulse.  And, provably, we don't.

 

(Also, would really appreciate some punctuation and capitalization in your posts if possible.  Having a hard time grasping your meaning, otherwise.  Apologies if I've misunderstood anything).

Edited by RShara
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All of the links i posted are from reputable sources, the first being a reputable if rather laymen oriented psychology magazine and the second being from a reputable science magazine, as to the third one not working perhaps your country is blocking it ? try TOR,

you might be right about about the breasts thing but the links you provided just pointed to a book reaffirming what i said ( i never claimed these differences to be anything more then dispositions )  and a article claiming some vague study and not providing a link ( i am sorry for not providing the link to the study about babies i will provide it bellow ) biological psychology agrees with me man and woman are naturally more disposed to certain fields agian i whould implore you to look up Jordan Peterson he is a world renowned clinical psychologist and he has a few very informative videos on the subject

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160715114739.htm  

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I am not going to argue this, because it's kind of a hot topic and I don't want to get into it.  Suffice that I don't agree, and there is research to back that up, as well.

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There is research on both sides but i agree its probably best to drop the subject to be honest i was terrified of posting this question because i really don't know the political climate of this place however if Brandon is a believer of tabula rasa then the thread is finished the gender roles make sense

Edited by Zape
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Historically surgery and many advances in medicine grow out of warfare.  So I think the first guess is a good one - surgery was a medical discipline because among the warfare minding Alethi it was most often battlefield surgery. 

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@Scion of the Mists well i have finished oathbringer and i think it just reaffirms my point 

Spoiler

The almost complete disregard for tradition in the book makes me wonder how exactly did those norms survive after the knights abandoned their oaths

 

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20 minutes ago, Zape said:

@Scion of the Mists well i have finished oathbringer and i think it just reaffirms my point 

If you would like to discuss this topic more with the addition of information from Oathbringer, you can start a new topic in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board (or request that the mods move it via the report button).  

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nah the topic is finished

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