[OB] Underwhelming

[IronBars]

Let me start by saying im not a new member to this forum, just been awhile since was on here, new phone etc and cant remember old log in details or even the email used.

Just finished Oathbringer yesterday, had only started reading it on monday, had it for awhile but didnt have the time to read it. That said i will focus on the thread title now.

I found this book to be underwhelming and a disapointment. Main reason being the book was mainly filler, (no doubt people will take exception to that point but nonetheless it is true imo) There was little to none story progression, for 1233 page count book there was very little of the actual story told, mostly just filler material to bulk out the book.

Character progression was non existant, some characters actually regressed imo, 

Kaladin.

Best character in the books imo. Basically has become relegated to a side note. 

Shallan

After WoR, expected alot more from her character, instead she had identity crisis the entire book. She is annoying at this point and most her povs were pointless and she just makes me cringe, 

Dalinar

Flashback sequence was good, why he went to the nightwatcher was rather pathetic though. Also the dalinar we knew from previous books was a lie and find it hard to believe a spren nevermind the stormfather would bond to the man he was or that people ie kaladin and bridge 4 also Szeth would follow him knowing the truth.

Szeth

Swearing the 3rd ideal of the skybreakers to follow dalinar when he doesnt know him is also rather odd, found this part to not make a great deal of sense.

Adolin

I remember after WoR this forum was full of theories about what killing sadeas would do to him, most of ye will also recall this, turns out he just didnt care lol 

Renarin

Useless as ever and bonded to the bad spren, but thats ok.........yeah.....

Jasnah

Seems altogether to powerful compared to the others, maybe its just her experience but wish was more pov chapters from her.

Taravangian

Having seen the diagram was wrong so much should of realised even at his smartest he was still woefully inadequete to predict future events and turned from the diagram instead latched on to small bits were right and joined odium

Venli

Seems to of bonded a normal spren just as a counterpoint to renarin bonding a odium spren in my opinion, eshonai bonding that spren would of made some sense venli bonding it made none.

Shadesmer

The trip here served no point but to take kaladin/shallan etc out the way for awhile, the chapters about it could be taken out the book and would make no difference

Lifr

Should be more chapters about lift, interesting character

Moash

His story unlike most the others did progress and found the direction he went to be refreshing (mirrored kaladins to an extent, difference being he accepted something kaladin refused to), and would of liked more povs from him.

Bridge 4

Very lightly involved this time around, teft suddenly being a crack head was a bit weird, and out the blue, everyone suddenly being able to be a squire and proto radiant was also a bit strange imo, bridge 4 understandable, all the other random people joining in hopes of being a squire was bit much and rlain was underused and the little we got was left hanging, 

Voidbringers

Was obvious the humans were the real voidbringers since book 1, found this revelation to be kinda silly and it being the reason for the recreance a bit of a cop out.

I realise this isnt going to be a popular train of thought on this forum but it is my opinion, that the book we got wasnt what it should of been, best characters and stories pushed to the side, no real progression in story or character arcs, for the story we got the book could of been cut to a 3rd, as alot was filler material for shake of it, shallan dominated the book and was just a repetive stroy arc all through the book at that, kaladin basically a sidenote and support act, 

The way of kings was a 5/5 star book

Word of radiance was a 4.5/5 book

Oathbringer is 3/5 star book at best. 

I hope the series doesn't keep going on the downward spirial it seems to be going.

I realise this (most likely) is all going to probably be cut to pieces by a lot of people, but before ye do that, ask yourself this, is oathbringer really the story ye thought it would be? Or the story ye wanted ? If ye say yes that it is, then id be shocked.

If spelling mistakes i apologise, using my phone

Edited February 23, 2018 by IronBars

[Vissy]

I agree with a lot of this, though as far as Taravangian goes, there are some theories why he wrote the Diagram at his smartest. Remember Nightwatcher is a spren of Cultivation, so T got his smarts and future-sight from Cultivation. So the Diagram is actually a part of Cultivation's plan against Odium... and Taravangian acting like Odium's ally/servant is too. He is unwittingly acting out Cultivation's instructions.

Edited February 18, 2018 by Vissy

[IronBars]

Yes your right, i didnt think of that as i wrote the most, tarvangian is most likely an unwitting pawn of cultivation against odium, just found it odd as alot of the diagram seems to of got things wrong, key things at that, yet he clings to it anyway and joined odium, was odd in my opinion because the parts being wrong didnt make him question it, maybe that was just because wasnt one of his smart days though im not sure

[RShara]

I get what you're saying though I largely disagree.  I just want to mention one thing.

Mental health is rarely a linear progression.  There are a lot of false starts, regressions, tangential struggles, and so forth.  There are often plateaus and setbacks, even when you generally manage to progress.

Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that.

 

Also, it wasn't humans are voidbringers.  Read the passage again.  It ws the real and distinct fear, promised by their god, that they would destroy Roshar, as they did Ashyn. Not liking the reason is fine, but make sure you get the reason right

Edited February 18, 2018 by RShara

[Calderis]

Disagree on pretty much everything. 

Kaladin is one of many "main characters" and it was nice to not have this book boiled down to Kaladin saves the day. 

And without digging into every point... There was a lot of character development in this book. Just because it didn't go in a direction you expected/wanted doesn't mean it wasn't there. Dalinar and Shallan both had major development. 

Dalinar is a more complete character and had to fight to maintain who he is in his own eyes because of it. 

Shallan is arguably not the same character as she was at the start of the book. 

Those kind of changes are character development.

Edit: and no, Oathbringer isn't the story I thought it would be. And that's a fantastic thing. 

If a writer only gives me the story I expect what's the point?

Edited February 23, 2018 by Calderis

[IronBars]

7 minutes ago, RShara said:

I get what you're saying though I largely disagree.  I just want to mention one thing.

Mental health is rarely a linear progression.  There are a lot of false starts, regressions, tangential struggles, and so forth.  There are often plateaus and setbacks, even when you generally manage to progress.

Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that.

 

Also, it wasn't humans are voidbringers.  Read the passage again.  It ws the real and distinct fear, promised by their god, that they would destroy Roshar, as they did Ashyn. Not liking the reason is fine, but make sure you get the reason right

Um....firstly humans were the voidbringers, whatever way you paint it, t

Now about the mental health issue, what you say is true and also not true, it entirely depends on the person, some are naturally tougher mentally then others im sure you will agree to that ?

You said: Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that.

Now having all 3 main pov characters always suffer relapses for lack of a better word is just not believable.

To take shallen for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

 

[Ammanas]

Oathbringer is the story that we need, but not the story that we deserve.

But seriously, there have been mixed reaction to this book so you are not alone. I liked the book, but it is not perfect by any means. 

Nice screen name by the way IronBars

[Vissy]

Well, Shallan regressed because she had trouble dealing with the latest Truth she spoke out loud during WoR. By the end of OB however, she has arguably gotten over the worst, and her mental state has plateaued somewhat - ripe grounds for more substantial progress in future books. I agree that progress was slow in OB. Too slow, and stretched out over too many pages. For example, 1200+ pages is more than enough page-time to set up an arc for Kaladin where he both fails, and then succeeds, to say the Words. But Sanderson chose to drag out the arc over more than one book, OB and Book 4 (most likely). Similarly the same could've been done for Shallan, etc., but Dalinar got the lion's share of progression this book. I guess he couldn't cram it all in there. But there was progress, and I think that's the conclusion we will draw when we read the first five Stormlight books back-to-back. 

Edited February 18, 2018 by Vissy

[IronBars]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

Disagree on pretty much everything. 

Kaladin is one of many "main characters" and it was nice two not have this book bold down to Kaladin saves the day. 

And without digging into every point... There was a lot of character development in this book. Just because it didn't go in a direction you expected/wanted doesn't mean it wasn't there. Dalinar and Shallan both had major development. 

Dalinar is a more complete character and had to fight to maintain who he is in his own eyes because of it. 

Shallan is arguably not the same character as she was at the start of the book. 

Those kind of changes are character development.

Edit: and no, Oathbringer isn't the story I thought it would be. And that's a fantastic thing. 

If a writer only gives me the story I expect what's the point?

Its ok if you disagree, 

I wasnt saying kaldain needed to be the one saving the day in this book, but he was relegated to a side note or a support act in this book.

An im sorry but no there was not alot of character progression in the book, and not alot of story progression either. If the book was 400 pages long id agree there was character progression but it was 1233 pages long.

Dalinar as a man is a lie. The man we seen in TWoK and WoR, was not real so you cant really say that, and everyone being ok with who/what he was is makes no sense.

Shallan regressed not progressed.

As i said earlier, story be fine if was a 400 page novel, not a 1233 page one.

There was more story/character progression in the first mistborn then Oathbreaker, in fact there was more story/character progression in the first mistborn trilogy then there has been in the 3 1000 page entries in the stormlight archive,

If your happy with story progressing at a snails pace with filler worth 500 pages inbetween then thats fair enough.

But understand that some people aren't.

 

4 hours ago, Ammanas said:

Oathbringer is the story that we need, but not the story that we deserve.

But seriously, there have been mixed reaction to this book so you are not alone. I liked the book, but it is not perfect by any means. 

Nice screen name by the way IronBars

I didnt dislike the book, just found it wasnt good enough. 

And thanks its a character from the MBOTF.

[Ammanas]

4 minutes ago, IronBars said:

 

And thanks its a character from the MBOTF.

Hah yeah I know I am also a huge malazan fan! We have a seperate thread on malazan in the entertainment forum. Ammanas was how Shadowthrone was referred to in Gardens of the Moon (I cant remember if it was mentioned in the other books. Also if you love Iron Bars make sure you read Stonewielder if you already haven't!)

Edited February 18, 2018 by Ammanas

[Vissy]

Oh good, I thought for a moment MBOTF stood for Mistborn Original Trifecta  don't know why xD

[Calderis]

To repeat what's already been said in different words, "character development" does not mean improvement. 

Yes, Shallan regressed. And?

This isn't a power up anime. We aren't trying to see what the next super sayan level is.

[IronBars]

3 hours ago, Ammanas said:

Hah yeah I know I am also a huge malazan fan! We have a seperate thread on malazan in the entertainment forum. Ammanas was how Shadowthrone was referred to in Gardens of the Moon (I cant remember if it was mentioned in the other books. Also if you love Iron Bars make sure you read Stonewielder if you already haven't!)

Only noticed your name now haha sorry, but yes iv read all the malazan books, including the prequels, malazan is by far my favourite series, much prefer it to sandersons works being honest, just waiting for the 3rd book in the kharkanas trilogy and the 3rd book in the path to ascendancy trilogy

 

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

 Yes, Shallan regressed. And?

.

Im not sure is that a serious question ? 

In 99% of oathbreaker shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has devoloped atal......

[Calderis]

Yeah. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere. I couldn't stand Shallan in tWoK, she grew on me in WoR, and she developed into an amazing character in OB.

If you honestly think that she hasn't changed or developed at all, then your requirements for "character development" are very very different than mine. 

Same with Dalinar. He says himself that his personality over the recent years has been based on a lie, and has to fight to reconcile who he is with who he's become and it almost breaks him. That's the entire point of his arc, and what allows him to speak his third oath. He faced his past, and still chose to be a good man. 

What is your definition of character development? because I don't understand how you can say it's not present here.

[The One Who Connects]

4 hours ago, IronBars said:

Szeth
Swearing the 3rd ideal of the Skybreakers to follow Dalinar when he doesn't know him is also rather odd, found this part to not make a great deal of sense.

It's no different than when Kaladin wanted to serve on the Plains in WoK: Reputation.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
What was Szeth's reasoning for following Dalinar? From what saw he's only met Dalinar once or twice and wasn't aware he is a Bondsmith.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
It wasn't about being a Bondsmith. It was partially about how everyone reacted to Dalinar and partially... Let's see if I can explain this.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]
Was it, like, 'cause in--

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]
Well, part of it was that. Definitely part of it was what he had seen and things like this. Part of it was how everyone, like-- he knew about Dalinar, right? He had fought Kaladin a couple of times. My own justification for it when I was writing this, 'cause I actually did think about this one, like, Dalinar has a magnetism to him. And Dalinar has a reputation. And Dalinar lived up to the reputation, and Szeth was just looking for something-- The reputation was in some ways more important than the man. For instance, there's a chance in that same situation that Szeth would have followed Amaram. Right? Fortunately he made a better choice than that but-- Anyway.

When you really think about it, you realize how it could have gone bad(as Brandon mentions). This highlights the difference between an understandable decision and a smart decision: hindsight. Was it a smart choice? Time will tell. Was it an understandable choice in the moment? Yes.

4 hours ago, IronBars said:

Taravangian
Having seen the diagram was wrong so much should of realized even at his smartest he was still woefully inadequate to predict future events and turned from the diagram instead latched on to small bits were right and joined odium.

So.. a few things:
1) The Diagram says that the cost is irrelevant, and he's taken that to heart. He's always been willing to risk the many to save the few, so why is this time any different?

2) At this point, the world isn't exactly in the best shape. When contemplating the end of all things, people will cling to any plan they can reach, regardless of it's viability. This leads back into (1) somewhat, but the Diagram had a plan that had been working fine for years. We as a species crave order. It's not in our nature to just abandon something that comprehensive(and decently accurate) in favor of no plan at all.

If Taravangian had had a backup plan to fall back to, then he might have done so. But he only had the one basket, and it's better to carry a dozen eggs in a basket with holes in it than to try and carry them in your hands.

4 hours ago, IronBars said:

was odd in my opinion because the parts being wrong didn't make him question it,

3) Why should he start questioning it now? He's always been aware that the Diagram got less accurate the further into the future it got. It's one thing for the Diagram to just suddenly start being wrong, but it's always been only 95-99% accurate. Some minor details have been a little bit off(Veden Succession War escalated a bit quicker than predicted), but it's been getting worse as time went on, so expecting more major details to start being a little off was to be expected. That's why(from his WoR interlude) he'd been hoping for another brilliant day, so he could augment the Diagram with more recent knowledge.

It's also why he's been collecting the Death Rattles, to use their more recent future-sight while he waits for his own. And before you say that that info-gathering could be misleading him, he knows.

Quote

Mason Wheeler [PENDING REVIEW] (paraphrased)
And they're filling in the gaps with information gleaned from Death Rattles, despite knowing full well that they're coming from one of Odium's Unmade spren. This seams very, very dumb. Have they ever considered the possibility that they could be being fed disinformation?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] (paraphrased)
Yes, but they figure that the benefits of having access to someone who can see the future outweigh that risk. And even if they are being deliberately given bad information, knowing what subjects they're being misinformed about tells them something useful.

---

4 hours ago, IronBars said:

Jasnah
Seems altogether to powerful compared to the others, maybe its just her experience but wish was more pov chapters from her.

Lift
Should be more chapters about lift, interesting character

They're gonna get Flashback books of their own in the future, and in Lift's case, she's already had the Edgedancer Novella. Reducing their page time in the early books makes sense, especially since some of our important front five characters will be diminished in the back five.

1 hour ago, IronBars said:

Um....firstly humans were the voidbringers, whatever way you paint it, t

Rshara is saying that that wasn't the direct reason for the Recreance. It was supplementary. Honor promised that they would destroy Roshar the way they did Ashyn, and then(indirectly, by learning that they were the Voidbringers who "invaded" when fleeing their own world), they learned that they did in fact destroy Ashyn.

---

50 minutes ago:

1 hour ago, IronBars said:

To take Shallan for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

9 minutes ago:

22 minutes ago, IronBars said:

In 99% of Oathbringer Shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has not developed at all......

These statements are not the same.

Edited February 18, 2018 by The One Who Connects
spellcheck

[IronBars]

22 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

It's no different than when Kaladin wanted to serve on the Plains in WoK: Reputation.

 

Kaladin didnt no who dalinar really was at the time, im guessing szeth doesnt either, if kaladin/szeth see things the same after the revelations about who/what dalinar was moving forward i find that to be not believable. Szeth swearing an oath to dalinar going by reputation doesnt make sense though because he followed the words of the stone shanans or whatever they were called based upon there reputation in there society as well, so its to siniliar to way he got burned by to make senss imo.

22 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

So.. a few things:
1) The Diagram says that the cost is irrelevant, and he's taken that to heart. He's always been willing to risk the many to save the few, so why is this time any different?

2) At this point, the world isn't exactly in the best shape. When contemplating the end of all things, people will cling to any plan they can reach, regardless of it's viability. This leads back into (1) somewhat, but the Diagram had a plan that had been working fine for years. We as a species crave order. It's not in our nature to just abandon something that comprehensive(and decently accurate) in favor of no plan at all.

If Taravangian had had a backup plan to fall back to, then he might have done so. But he only had the one basket, and it's better to carry a dozen eggs in a basket with holes in it than to try and carry them in your hands.

3) Why should he start questioning it now? He's always been aware that the Diagram got less accurate the further into the future it got. It's one thing for the Diagram to just suddenly start being wrong, but it's always only been 95-99% accurate. Some minor details have been a little bit off(Veden Succession War escalated a bit quicker than predicted), but it's been getting worse as time went on, so expecting more major details to start being a little off was to be expected. That's why(from his WoR interlude) he'd been hoping for another brilliant day, so he could augment the Diagram with more recent knowledge.

It's also why he's been collecting the Death Rattles, to use their more recent future-sight while he waits for his own. And before you say that that info-gathering could be misleading him, he knows.

---

 

 

Your points about taravangian are fair.

I just think doesnt make sense for him as a man not to question it, but folowing the point vissy made i agree with them and hes cultivations pawn and thats why doesnt question it.

22 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Rshara is saying that that wasn't the direct reason for the Recreance. It was supplementary. Honor promised that they would destroy Roshar the way they did Ashyn, and then(indirectly, by learning that they were the Voidbringers who "invaded" when fleeing their own world), they learned that they did in fact destroy Ashyn.

 

Destroy roshar why ? Because they were the voidbringers

22 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

These statements are not the same.

No there not, and they look contradictory but there not, 

To take Shallan for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

In 99% of Oathbringer Shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has not developed at all

to take the first paragraph, after shallan swore the 4th ideal of her radiant order it would be understandable for her to improve from the state she was in, ie identity crisis, hiding from her past, instead she got worse and hid from it more had a bigger identity crisis etc, so that got worse, but its the same issues shes had since WoR and TWoK, so its the same overall, 

so shes the same person with the same frailties (if can call them that) and while those frailties get stronger (worse) in OB, she is actually the same because the fraities are the same

not sure if that will make sense to you or if the wording makes sense its clear in my head at least haha

[Calderis]

43 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Szeth swearing an oath to dalinar going by reputation doesnt make sense though because he followed the words of the stone shanans or whatever they were called based upon there reputation in there society as well, so its to siniliar to way he got burned by to make senss imo. 

Following the stone shamans had  nothing to do with reputation. It was his religion. Which many signs in and before Oathbringer point towards him actually being a part of the shamanate. 

It's not the same thing at all. 

[IronBars]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Following the stone shamans had  nothing to do with reputation. It was his religion. Which many signs in and before Oathbringer point towards him actually being a part of the shamanate. 

It's not the same thing at all. 

I disagree, it is the same thing, 

I believe its mentioned szeth had a spren come to him, thats how he new the knights radiant were returning, when he came out with this info he was ostracized, and contrary to what he new he followed what they said, based on there reputation for who they were there position in the society etc he denied what he new to be true.

[Toaster Retribution]

My five cents: Oathbringer is and isn´t a disappointment. SA is such a huge series, with a lot going on. Some parts are bound to disappoint some fans. Its unavoidable (is unavoidable a word btw?). 

Personally, I wasn´t really happy with how Amaram was handled. I would have liked to see more Ghootsbloods (specifically Mraize). I hoped to get to know Aesudan. I would have liked for Axies to show up. Graves was killed far too quickly. Adolins arc wasn´t entirely satisfactory. I was more bothered by Lift than I have ever been before. The explanation for the Recreance felt weak. 

But at the same time, I am very pleased with a lot of stuff in the book. It was incredibly entertaining, from start to finish. Szeth was better than in the previous two. The entire sequence in the Kholinar Palace was great. Killing Elhokar, Eshonai and Jezrien were good decisions. Dalinars arc was beautiful, and does touch me on a personal level. Kaladins arc was great too. I loved the lore we got. Parts of the final battle in Thaylenah were awesome. It was funny. The Unmade are nice. Odium was great as a character.

Will we always be pleased with what Brandon does with the Stormlight Archive? No. Will some fans stop following the series because it moves in a direction they don´t like. Yes, most likely. In the end, it depends on what you care about, as a fan. Was Oathbringer a disappointment? Dunno. There is no right, and no wrong. 

(off-topic, but I have to know: @Ammanas, is that Warcraft Greymane in your sig, or another Greymane?)

[RShara]

3 hours ago, IronBars said:

Um....firstly humans were the voidbringers, whatever way you paint it, t

Now about the mental health issue, what you say is true and also not true, it entirely depends on the person, some are naturally tougher mentally then others im sure you will agree to that ?

You said: Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that.

Now having all 3 main pov characters always suffer relapses for lack of a better word is just not believable.

To take shallen for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

 

Umm where did I dispute that?  I said that's not the reason for the Recreance.

 

You may find it unrealistic, but I didn't.   Agree to disagree, I just wanted to state how mental health works for many people, me included.

[Ammanas]

17 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

But at the same time, (off-topic, but I have to know: @Ammanas, is that Warcraft Greymane in your sig, or another Greymane?)

That is another Greymane that is most prominent in a book called Stonewielder by Esslemont (it is also where the quote is from). It is a malazan book; I guess you could call it a parallel novel because ot helps fill in the gaps of Erikson's books and continues some plot lines from Esslemonts previous two books. It probably wouldn't make a lot of sense to read it by itself, without prior knowledge  (in case you were interested in it).

[Toaster Retribution]

1 minute ago, Ammanas said:

That is another Greymane that is most prominent in a book called Stonewielder by Esslemont (it is also where the quote is from). It is a malazan book; I guess you could call it a parallel novel because ot helps fill in the gaps of Erikson's books and continues some plot lines from Esslemonts previous two books. It probably wouldn't make a lot of sense to read it by itself, without prior knowledge  (in case you were interested in it).

Thanks for the information! I just started on Gardens of the Moon, so I might get to Stonewielder someday. 

Apologizes for derailing this interesting thread. Please keep on discussing the OPs points, guys :-)

[maxal]

3 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

My five cents: Oathbringer is and isn´t a disappointment. SA is such a huge series, with a lot going on. Some parts are bound to disappoint some fans. Its unavoidable (is unavoidable a word btw?). 

Personally, I wasn´t really happy with how Amaram was handled. I would have liked to see more Ghootsbloods (specifically Mraize). I hoped to get to know Aesudan. I would have liked for Axies to show up. Graves was killed far too quickly. Adolins arc wasn´t entirely satisfactory. I was more bothered by Lift than I have ever been before. The explanation for the Recreance felt weak. 

But at the same time, I am very pleased with a lot of stuff in the book. It was incredibly entertaining, from start to finish. Szeth was better than in the previous two. The entire sequence in the Kholinar Palace was great. Killing Elhokar, Eshonai and Jezrien were good decisions. Dalinars arc was beautiful, and does touch me on a personal level. Kaladins arc was great too. I loved the lore we got. Parts of the final battle in Thaylenah were awesome. It was funny. The Unmade are nice. Odium was great as a character.

Will we always be pleased with what Brandon does with the Stormlight Archive? No. Will some fans stop following the series because it moves in a direction they don´t like. Yes, most likely. In the end, it depends on what you care about, as a fan. Was Oathbringer a disappointment? Dunno. There is no right, and no wrong. 

(off-topic, but I have to know: @Ammanas, is that Warcraft Greymane in your sig, or another Greymane?)

I think this is a great post which summarizes greatly how many readers reacted to this book. Truth is Oathbringer isn't making unanimity and critics are more numerous for this book than with the previous ones. My personal take are, with OB, Brandon focused way too much onto the greater narrative, ignoring the smaller characters oriented arc, but at the same time, he spent way too much time over given arcs to the point of making the repetitive.

Did I like Shallan in this book? Nope. Not really. Not because she didn't get character development, the idea Shallan didn't get character development is surprising because of all characters, she definitely got the most, but because her overall arc dragged and extended its welcome. I do not mind characters going down regression paths, but I felt Shallan's regression should have ended with the Hoid chapters, it shouldn't have further slipped. It also over-powered part of the narrative by being horribly irritating as we were forced to read Veil most of the time. Now, I can't speak for everyone, but I literally hate Veil. She is a fake character, with a fake past and fake skills set: hearing her being spoken so highly out of her falseness was terribly grating. Those parts of the story could have used some spicing up: we had four characters evolving within the same narrative, but they barely talked one to another. Shallan's arc was thus way too internal for my personal taste, not external enough and it being combined to Dalinar and Kaladin's also very internal arc made the story feel sluggish. As such, I do think by choosing to have his three main protagonist enter what ended being very similar arcs wasn't the right narrative move. It also yielded bland simplistic and comical-relief Adolin because Brandon needed contrast. 

Did I like Adolin in this book? Nope. Talk about a disappointment. There isn't a day where I do not attempt to try to make it sound more satisfying but, in the end, Sadeas being murdered just turned into the most unsatisfying resolution of a book ending climax I have ever read. I never thought I would get to read this level of dissatisfaction coming from Brandon Sanderson and yet it happened. Of all authors I have ever read, he was the one I counted on for pulling out a climax and not to disappoint, yet this time around, he did. Four months after the book, I still do not understand why he thought this was the right narrative to play with, why he didn't add more Adolin viewpoints to make the arc feel more satisfying. I just cannot understand. 

Did I like Amaram? Nope. He had been built-up to become an interesting villain, not a card-board black character but one with motivations and beliefs which contradicted with his own personal sense of honor. The potential for conflict was gigantic and yet he was turned into nothing more than a mindless minion. His transformation is not brought upon clearly enough and it feels as if the author just wanted to be done with him.

Did I think we needed Lift in this book? Nope. After her novel, I didn't feel like she needed more viewpoints: they distracted me from the ending climax. I had built-up a strong liking and empathy towards her character after reading Edgedancer, I didn't feel OB built on that, worst, I felt it hack through it. I no longer want wise-chull-cracking out-of-context Lift, I want caring deeper thinking Lift, but maybe that's just me.

This being said, other arcs turned to be better than I anticipated. Szeth was definitely an arc I dreaded which surprised me by actually being interesting to read. I ended loving reading Venli's arc which was one surprise I had in the book. Against all odds, I actually appreciated the Bridge 4 viewpoints, especially Skar and Rlain. I felt Skar, within one chapter, became such an interesting character I now hope to read more of him. Maya was also a nice addition and the a small band-aid to put onto the disappointment Adolin turned out to be, the only reason left to hope for more and better Adolin within future books. Dalinar's flashbacks were absolutely awesome and I love how they also fleshed out his relationship with his sons: quiet often forgotten Renarin and vividly imaginative Adolin who's was born to live up to his father's expectations. Dalinar/Evi's relationship lived up to the expectations, it was both more heart-breaking, sadder, but also more grim and brutal than I expected: truly amazing. The small tip bit we got on Jasnah's past was enough to help humanize an otherwise very cold character.

I also don't share the dislike of the original poster for Taravangian's story arc. I read him as an old man, frail, having thought for one moment he was the smartest man in the universe only to find out his brilliant plan had flaws. He then hangs up to few valid pieces and bargains with Odium to save his people, at least. I read him as a man having failed in a spectacular way, knowing he has lost, but trying to save a remnant of a remnant, trying to do some good with an endless string of bad decisions. There is still much potential for this arc... How far will Taravangian go?

In the end, I do agree we aren't always going to be pleased with how SA turns out to be. There will be books where favored protagonists, such as Kaladin, take a small step towards the background. There will be character arcs which never really happen such as Amaram, but I do hope Brandon will NEVER pull put another Adolin, another arc implying so much additional development for a viewpoint character only to have it all end in a rather anti-climatic way. This, I hope to never read again. For the rest, there is no way around it.

[IronBars]

9 hours ago, maxal said:

Did I like Shallan in this book? Nope. Not really. Not because she didn't get character development, the idea Shallan didn't get character development is surprising because of all characters, she definitely got the most, but because her overall arc dragged and extended its welcome. I do not mind characters going down regression paths, but I felt Shallan's regression should have ended with the Hoid chapters, it shouldn't have further slipped. It also over-powered part of the narrative by being horribly irritating as we were forced to read Veil most of the time. Now, I can't speak for everyone, but I literally hate Veil. She is a fake character, with a fake past and fake skills set: hearing her being spoken so highly out of her falseness was terribly grating. Those parts of the story could have used some spicing up: we had four characters evolving within the same narrative, but they barely talked one to another. Shallan's arc was thus way too internal for my personal taste, not external enough and it being combined to Dalinar and Kaladin's also very internal arc made the story feel sluggish. As such, I do think by choosing to have his three main protagonist enter what ended being very similar arcs wasn't the right narrative move. It also yielded bland simplistic and comical-relief Adolin because Brandon needed contrast. 

My point with the lack of character progression/development is simply this, for a 1233 page novel the "progression/devolopement of the characters could of been done in 150/200 pages, with ease, thats 10% of the book, so in OB there is little to no character devolopments, shallen is the same person as in WoR and instesd of resolving some of her issues after swearing the 4th ideal of the lightweavers, her issues deepened, which makes little sense, her entire arc in OB was repetitive, and its not believeable that she can just keep lucking out with everything she does, she has no real skills, she comes across as very unintelligent even though she is meant to come across as very intelligent, and she just lucks out of situations for 3 books now. The whole love triangle thing with adolin/kaladin shouldnt even of existed, it was just stupid.

Kaladin was utterly wasted in this book.

9 hours ago, maxal said:

Did I like Adolin in this book? Nope. Talk about a disappointment. There isn't a day where I do not attempt to try to make it sound more satisfying but, in the end, Sadeas being murdered just turned into the most unsatisfying resolution of a book ending climax I have ever read. I never thought I would get to read this level of dissatisfaction coming from Brandon Sanderson and yet it happened. Of all authors I have ever read, he was the one I counted on for pulling out a climax and not to disappoint, yet this time around, he did. Four months after the book, I still do not understand why he thought this was the right narrative to play with, why he didn't add more Adolin viewpoints to make the arc feel more satisfying. I just cannot understand. 

As with kaladin adolin was wasted in this book. 

Since WoR had been looking forward to seeing what happened after adolin killed sadeas, how adolin reacted and dealt with it, how adolins family reacted the repurcussions etc. Instead we got nothing.......adolin didnt care dalinar didnt care shallan thought was great etc it was just nonsense how was done in my opinion.

9 hours ago, maxal said:

Did I like Amaram? Nope. He had been built-up to become an interesting villain, not a card-board black character but one with motivations and beliefs which contradicted with his own personal sense of honor. The potential for conflict was gigantic and yet he was turned into nothing more than a mindless minion. His transformation is not brought upon clearly enough and it feels as if the author just wanted to be done with him..

I didnt mention Amaram in my origianal post but i couldnt agree more with everything you said.

9 hours ago, maxal said:

This being said, other arcs turned to be better than I anticipated. Szeth was definitely an arc I dreaded which surprised me by actually being interesting to read. I ended loving reading Venli's arc which was one surprise I had in the book. Against all odds, I actually appreciated the Bridge 4 viewpoints, especially Skar and Rlain. I felt Skar, within one chapter, became such an interesting character I now hope to read more of him. Maya was also a nice addition and the a small band-aid to put onto the disappointment Adolin turned out to be, the only reason left to hope for more and better Adolin within future books. Dalinar's flashbacks were absolutely awesome and I love how they also fleshed out his relationship with his sons: quiet often forgotten Renarin and vividly imaginative Adolin who's was born to live up to his father's expectations. Dalinar/Evi's relationship lived up to the expectations, it was both more heart-breaking, sadder, but also more grim and brutal than I expected: truly amazing. The small tip bit we got on Jasnah's past was enough to help humanize an otherwise very cold character.

I also liked Szeth in the book, my point with him was it made no sense for him to swear the 3rd ideal of the skybreakers based on dalinar when he didnt know him, someone said he swore it because dalinars reputation, im not sure which reputatiion that is though, the one where dalinar is a bloodthirsty tyrant or the one where hes gone mad, either way makes no sense, and if Szeth doesnt react to the revelations about dalinar in book 4 then that is ridiculous. Also made no sense for kaladin to be cool with Szeth all of a sudden either. And as with Szeth if kaladin is ok with the revelations about dalinar it would be ridiculous

There wasnt enough bridge 4 viewpoints for me, i liked them all except the one where teft is suddenly out the blue a crack head, 

Dalinars flashbacks were good, just makes no sense the stormfather would choose him after seeing them. What we saw in tWoK and WoR of dalinar was a lie.

Id actually go so far as to say if Szeth and kaladin dont react badly to the revelations about dalinar and for sometime leave him in book 4 i will stop reading the SA because from everything we know of those two there should be a big reaction from both, and it just wouldnt make sense or be believable to think they be ok with it, 

My main issue with OB is as i said before, the story didnt progress and the characters didnt progress, the story could of been cut to 400 pages the character arcs progression could of been done in 150/200, thats 600 page book, we got a 1233 page book, the rest (half the book) was just filler for the sake of bulking the book out.

OB is actually my least favourite sanderson book, and seems SA is going downhill, tWoK = 5/5, WoR =4.5/5, OB = 3/5, 

If people don't agree thats fine its just my opinion

[Carla Bridge Four]

There are no absolutes. 

You have the right to dislike OB as much as others (like me) loved almost every bit of it. Was it frustrating for Kaladin not to say the 4th ideal? Yes, but it build him a lot as a character. He needs to accept that at some moment, everybody needs help.

I never liked Shallan, but in OB I loved her interactions with Wit/Hoid. Completly worthy reading Shallan just for those.

It's ok to ventilate your problems with the book, as it is ok to accept not everybody will have the same opinion.

Teft and Dalinar arcs were awesome. And no, Teft's addiction is foreshadowed, it doesn't pop up just like that.

I'm on the "loveOB" bandwagon, and I sincerelly hope for you to keep enjoying SA beyond your dislike for how the story was played in this book.