03.10.2014 - The Edge of Redepmtion, Ch 2

[manaheim]

No harlequin romance this time, I promise. :-)

 

Thanks for checking it out.

[andyk]

There's a lot of nice descriptive details in this, but I thought it took too long to get to the point. It was obvious from the start that she was dead and in heaven, or at least somewhere related to it, and I was frustrated at having to get through two thirds of the chapter before that was even pointed out to Candace. In fact it was so obvious that I got annoyed at her for not having a clue.

 

My other big issue is that the tone of the story feels inconsistent. You've got a light, humorous take on heaven, and then a character revealed as an angelic assassin? That doesn't feel like parts of the same story to me. If you're going for the sort of dark, serious tone that an angelic assassin and Candace's background seem to imply then the extended scenes of humorous hippy Paul are too much out of line with that. And the idea that Heaven would appoint an assassin seems out of place in a lighter, less cynical work.

[styn]

I loved it! Maybe its because it reminded me of Terry Pratchet's 'Good Omens'. It could even be because I'm an Atheist and I felt like there was plenty of pot shots taken at Christianity in general. Regardless I'm sold, give me more of this. The ending in particular was a great place to end the piece. I'm really looking forward to how the next part of this unfolds.

I don't really like to critique prose, because its not something that you can learn by someone telling you they don't like how you write. Which is why I'm glad that I have no such criticism. I enjoyed the way you put words together, overall the submission also had a very polished feel to it.

I had a bit of confusion in the first few sentences. For whatever reason I didn't realize she was standing outside the elevator from your description. It might be a good idea to rewrite this section in a way that better reflects that she is standing in front of an elevator and not actually inside one. Then again it might just be that I was skimming.

The elevator attendant shouldn't need a fake radio voice, it detracted from what I felt was an innate and witty rambling commentary without adding anything. Let your dialogue do your talking, it was a great back and forth. As someone who has a decent number of lucid dreams, I also felt that Candace had a pretty normal reaction to the wacky events. If you really want to lock down believability then have her experience difficulty remembering the accident until the big reveal from Paul. Sort of a where am I? What am I doing here? kinda vibe.

Once again, really great read.

[Robinski]

It’s a funny thing how, even though I had a ‘fairly’ negative reaction to Chapter 1, I'm actually quite looking forward to reading Chapter 2. It’s like that saying ‘There’s no such thing as bad publicity’...

 

And now having read it, I must say that I was much happier with this chapter. There were some things that slowed me down (noted below – most minor), but I find your writing easy to read, I think it has an easy-going style, a touch of comedy, and flows nicely in a way that makes quibbles easier to absorb. If anything, I wonder if it might not be dark or edgy enough, but I realise that we have not seen the antagonist yet, so there’s time for things to turn ugly.

 

The theme itself is not entirely original of course, but that doesn’t mean that something done well cannot be entertaining again, and this chapter entertained me. I enjoyed the characters and their interaction, and I'm now looking forward to Chapter 3 and the explanation of the surprising ending.

 

Another thing that this chapter does, for me at least, is to throw into even more stark relief how excruciating Seth’s dialogue was. I can see now that it wasn’t a malfunction in your handling of male characters, I could go on, but I said my piece last time.

 

I'm not sure I agree with Andy this time, I have no trouble with the tone and the reveal of the assassin thing, I think a dark theme with a lightness of tone can work. This chapter put me in mind of Piers Anthony's 'Incarnations of Immortality' series. Styn's Pratchett comparison is maybe a bit premature for me. I will agree with Andy on the description though, as noted, it was a bit much for me too. Styn's comment about the elevator guy's radio voice reminded me to mention it too - I think Styn's right - I didn't really get it and don't think it's necessary.

 

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Page 4 – ‘She furrowed her brow, frowning...’ – These two phrases mean the same thing, I would say.

 

Page 7 – If Candace was in a dream, I could see that she might be in some way be prevented by her subconscious from making the association, but if she isn’t, I would imagine she would be starting to consider the buttock-clenching possibility that she is in heaven.

 

Page 7 – ‘...a hard expression in his cold blue eyes, and glared at her...’ – repetition again, I thought.

 

Page 9 – By thing point, I'm finding the level of description a bit excessive. I think it could be cut down a bit to allow concentration on the story’s progress.

 

Page 10 – I like a good comma as much as the next person, but I think there are more than necessary in places, to the point that they become quite distracting. For example ‘A tallish, gangly, man, appeared. He wore rough, brown robes, over some sort of long linen shirt, with a rope tied at the waist.’

 

Page 10 – ‘...crowds of paper...’ – That doesn’t sound right to me, maybe sheaves, stacks or reams?

[manaheim]

These have all been extremely helpful comments, and I've only been not replying mainly because I've been reading them over a few times and thinking them through.

 

INTERESTINGLY... when I was reading this just before I posted it, I kinda rolled my eyes at some of the early parts of the chapter and said (to myself) "Come on, come on... get to the point."  At the time I thought it was fatigue over having read the thing over so many damned times, but now I think that it was an internal editor that I should have listened to.  Fortunately, the comments from you folks have helped me identify that, so it's time to grab the scalpel.

 

While I in no way mean to diminish Andy's comments, I'm a little glad that not everyone responded quite the same way to the tone because it's kinda part of the superstructure of the book. After I read Andy's comments the first time I almost tossed the entire book in the trash. lol  I may still... gotta get through my million practice words and this is only book 2. :-/  Anyway... andy, thank you for all your comments and taking the time to read and respond. 

 

I'm also super happy to hear that the dialogue worked better this time around.  I admit I have a hard time with Seth. It's on the plan to go back and work on him a bit.  And EXTREMELY happy to hear you're looking forward to more.  That's a big improvement. lol

 

Oh, btw, yes... I know on the commas.  I'm trying to figure out how to use them and no matter how many damned books I read on the topic, I'm still confused.

 

Thanks very much to ALL of you.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate these insightful remarks.

 

I have very much work to do.

 

Talk soon!

Edited March 12, 2014 by manaheim

[andyk]

I'm glad that Robinski had a different reaction to the change of tone from me. I like fiction that brings together disparate things, whether it's intertwining different tones or throwing together completely separate ideas. While the differing tones jarred with me on this occasion, if they worked for someone then there's clearly a way to make them work together, which means you've got something interesting to work with.

[manaheim]

Thanks, Andy.  I will keep it in mind as I go through my edits. I probably have some loose ends where I've taken it too far or something. I've never been one for subtlety. :-/

[Mandamon]

I have to say I agree with andyk on this one, on both his topics.  There's too much explanatory dialogue.  I got where she was on page two, but there's a whole lot of Candice not figuring out where she is, and the "surprised and disbelieving" gets annoying after about 6 pages.

 

Also, lots of swearing for being in heaven... Similar to what andyk was saying about humorous vs. dark tone.  They can be mixed well, but some of this comes across as a little forced, like the fake radio voice styn mentions.

 

This could probably be shortened to a few pages.  I felt like the point was belabored a lot before you came to a conclusion.  Yes, it's heaven.  The reader gets that from the start.  After another 15 pages of describing it, we're ready to get to the point.  If you expand the unique parts of this (Peter is a hippy, Candice is an angelic assassin, others in heaven want to bump her off) that will help draw the reader in .  As others have said, the theme is not totally original, which means you have to work harder to make someone who's "read this before" care about it.

 

I've learned on the pieces I've given out for critique that EVERY time your subconscious bugs you about something and you brush it off, a reader will pick up on that flaw.

 

Anyway, despite the critical tone, I am looking forward to more.  Your tone of writing is fresh and makes reading easy.

[manaheim]

Yup, totally hear what you're saying.  Frankly, Candace really is quite a bit smarter than this and I see where she's being a little slow here.  I'm reworking my earlier chapters based upon this feedback and trying to sharpen her up a bit.  These have been great suggestions.  Much appreciated.  I hope you'll find Ch3 a bit better.

 

The tone and swearing part will be tough, because that's part of the fabric of the book. (well, not the swearing, really. lol) But I hear what you're saying and will pay careful attention to it.

 

Thank you all.

Edited March 14, 2014 by manaheim