Mandamon Posted February 5, 2018 Report Share Posted February 5, 2018 Hello again, Part three of my new mystery novella. This is a little long, so apologies, but it does finish out this entire section. Previously, the main character went to apply for presenting a new invention, but found the Speaker he was to talk to dead. He found evidence there was also a list revealing the society he is a member of, though it remains secret by an imposed geas on the members. He talked to his mentor, also the leader of the Society, where it was revealed why the Society is hidden. His mentor assigned the main character to investigate what happened and why. Let me know what you think. I've quickly added in some new parts about the geas, since it's new addition, and there might be some info-dumpy sections here. This is very much draft zero. I'm also wondering what you think of the other characters introduced here, and...anything else. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted February 6, 2018 Report Share Posted February 6, 2018 Oooh, do I get to be first?? Overall A slow start but it built steam around page twelve and I was hooked from there on. I think I'm still having a hard time buying into our main protag. I feel like I don't know much about him at all, or his motivations other than OMG THE LIST! I'm also still fuzzy on the stakes surrounding the list (other than being killed?). But visiting all the people was fun! 15 hours ago, Mandamon said: I'm also wondering what you think of the other characters introduced here Loved them! This was a bit of world discovery and I greatly enjoyed it. Nice work here! As I go - the first line, and then the first paragraph, aren't particularly strong hooks - page two: you have some passive voice that could be changed to simple past - page four: why is the pixie having problems talking? Aren't they in the N? The pixie in your other three had pretty standard language, right? - page five: WRS probably, but I forgot what the stakes are. Why is getting this list so important? - page seven: I'm having a hard time staying interested, but I think this might be more to do with the style of Sherlock mystery than anything else. I never was a mystery reader - page eleven: eeeeew molting things leaving smears - page thirteen: this is minor, but since you have established numerous genders within your world, the 'Scamper's daughter or son' rings off. 'Scamper's offspring' would be more fitting for the world you've created - page 16: the visiting houses and people is much more engaging and I'm really enjoying this story now. I still don't care much for our protagonist but I really enjoy all the people that are being visited! - nice ending! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrialistDragon Posted February 9, 2018 Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 I'm still having trouble with this story. I don't really sympathize with M and he still feels fairly generic to me. I don't really care for M's two collaborators. While they have more personality than M, and I might like them individually, they don't seem like either friends or colleagues to me. They feel very antagonistic, and I'm not really sold on the idea that they could work together enough to make anything. I'm reminded of my least favorite office coworker dynamics. They also feel shallow to me. They're suffering from the "the death of a person matters less than a list of names" problem that the rest of the work seems to be, but with the added hyper-focus on their individual proposal. I know people like that exist, especially in academia, but I think it's exacerbated by basically none of the characters thus far displaying much empathy. Shouldn't somebody care about the dead guy? "It was why the two of them clashed so often. They shared a House" -- I'm confused here, but maybe it's my lack of background. Shouldn't the same houses get along? I mean, that's why they're in houses yes? Like, with that logic wouldn't one-talent people from the same house be twice as likely to have insurmountable personality issues, since they don't have a second house to mitigate whatever makes shared houses clash? I am unfortunately not really invested enough in M or the other one to care a whole lot about the people they are interviewing right now. The elderly snake lady was amusing, though, and the second body has my interest perking up a bit finally. Maybe they'll care more about this one? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted February 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 10:32 PM, kais said: I think I'm still having a hard time buying into our main protag. 12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said: I don't really sympathize with M and he still feels fairly generic to me Yep, this was my main reason for not wanting to submit this originally. I need to do the second pass on character for M, which will hopefully fix these issues. On 2/5/2018 at 10:32 PM, kais said: why is the pixie having problems talking? Hmm...this should have come across in Seeds, too. Maybe I need to read those convos again. Pixies tend toward very clipped speech, sort of like shorthand notes. On 2/5/2018 at 10:32 PM, kais said: 'Scamper's offspring' would be more fitting for the world you've created I'll fix that... On 2/5/2018 at 10:32 PM, kais said: Why is getting this list so important? 12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said: They're suffering from the "the death of a person matters less than a list of names" problem Also agree. This is another thing that got lost in the first draft and I'll bring out some more the second time around. 12 hours ago, industrialistDragon said: They feel very antagonistic, and I'm not really sold on the idea that they could work together enough to make anything. On 2/5/2018 at 10:32 PM, kais said: Loved them! This was a bit of world discovery and I greatly enjoyed it. Ok, so one yes, one no. I might need to adjust their relationship some. I was going more for "comfortable bickering" than "antagonistic." I'll see how it reads when I go back through. Thanks to @kais and @industrialistDragon! as usual, this will help immensely in edits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 Comments; finally! And apologies, I think I should have gone to in-line and emailed you a file back, sorry for the length of this. “those with social and commitment issues such as myself” – social covers a broad range of issues, but ‘commitment’ seems to belong to the group of issues covered by ‘social’. My writer-brain is screaming ‘behavioural’ at me as an alternative to ‘commitment’. “and that would require knowledge revelation of my situation in the Society” – suggested for clarity “nicknamed” – this seems quite casual, which isn’t the tone of the epigraph, overall. “I walked, slowly, down the corridors of the mansion in P” – fantastic first line. “found ST dead in the first case place” – somehow, case sounded wrong to my. Not sure why, but still. “before I even entered the room” – repetition of ‘even’ soon after. “The workshop I shared with the F and the P” – repetition of the same form of phrase from a paragraph ago. I feel like ‘we shared’ would suffice. “our constant inventions and tinkerings” – it’s not the inventions that are constant, but the inventing, I think. The method of working sounds really unprofessional. I'm not sure how they achieve anything. The first half of this second page, for me, is really rambling and a bit messy. I think it needs sharpening up a fair bit. “Was anticipating you back soon” – ‘sooner’, presumably? “half lifted by her wings” – is that not flying? Phrasing seems unnecessarily complicated. “limiting us from speaking about the Society” – isn’t it preventing? Somehow, limiting doesn’t sound so absolute, as if there are limits, within which they can mention the society. “There was a silence, as both…” – what purpose does ‘a’ serve apart from complicating the phrasing? “and the warnings the Benish had told me about” – I think warnings, usually, are ‘given’. How is K one step ahead, when she is asking where they start? This didn’t make sense to me. “one of the slowly dying scientist class” – sounds like the scientists are dying. How about declining? “nearly a lifetimes for” – typo. K sounds pretty belligerent to me. “see if any others were taken” – any other what? I need a reminder here. “The two others considered” – one of these is redundant. Repetition of ‘information’. “she said. House of Grace” – missing “ “This will still take time,” I said. “That will require,” – awkward phrasing. Repetition of ‘I could tell’. “I did a quick sum on my fingers” – It sounds like Man can’t do this sum without counting on his fingers. I presume he can do it in his head, but it’s the phrasing that makes him look a bit dense. “there has to be at least two or three of each” – have? How about ‘must be’? “Would some specific title be more suspect?” It was a pointless exercise” – I don’t know what this means. Also, what is ‘it’? Investigating? I'm starting to glaze over when the beginning explaining all the combination and the titles. Is this relevant? If the reason for the killing is about some minutiae associated with a particular combination of houses, I'm concerned that I won’t care enough to remain invested. We’re delving into some very fine detail here, but I’m not sure I'm really feeling the stakes. What are the stakes? Members of the society being reprimanded? The society being disbanded? I’m not sure I'm invested enough at this point. “I wonder if the other Councilors even know they have two houses?” – Don’t think I understand how they could not. Wouldn’t they hear things? “Now you mentioned a couple other m on the list” – Surely they all were m on the list? It’s just the phrasing. “I doubt she’s harmed more than a hot meal in cycles” - ?? “turned our steps to one of higher floors” – typo “most of those in the Society preferred to stay in the obscurity of P” – sorry, I know it’s wordsmithing, but I can’t help myself. “painted red door” – red painted? “covered the m to knees” – her knees, the knees? Sas have knees? I always pictured them more snaky than that, I think. “against my leg, leaving a white smear on my pant leg” – repetition of ‘leg’. “lolling in silent F laugher” – typo “waved a wizened arm, and I could barely stop myself from staring at the loose scaly skin on her arm” – repetition of ‘arm’, not necessary, imo. “must have requested her baffles opened all the way” - ?? “around one earhole” – I do believe this might be one word. “would not help with the murdered Speaker” – Stakes. Suggest: ‘Would not help track the murderer.’ “Who’s was the last name on the list” – this kind of makes it sound like they’ve been through an exhaustive list, when they’ve only tracked one person. “at the last big meeting” – this sounds rather underwhelming. These are scientists, are they not? And it isn’t as if they are speaking in a foreign language, so I would expect their phrasing to be more sophisticated, like maybe symposium, or convocation. “The one about how all the members of the Society had to pull together and work together? Sounded like generic noise. Uninspired. I guess belonging to the house of Communication doesn’t guarantee good speaking skills” – First sentence, again, rather unsophisticated, compared to ‘On the theme of cooperation within the Society?’ Second underline, ‘oratory’? “but neither did it sound like one who would betray the Society” – It > him? or is it the lecture? “was a short Lob” – As in ‘short for a Lob?’ “with wide, surprised eyes” – Two items still is a list, imo. “We had a few questions” – they still do. “the names of Society members leaking out to the general public” – But they don’t know this yet. Man is presenting it as if it has already happened. They don’t know this for a fact yet, do they? “spouses were staring in horror” – the tense diminishes the shock, imo, compared to spouses stared in horror “may be an attempt to bring the Society specifically into the open” – again, stakes. ‘Expose the society’ is more urgent and emotive, I think. “Our friends in the Imp all know I have two houses” – does he mean two domiciles? I thought the people didn’t know about Ma with two houses, that they forgot over time? “could expound theories of the universe any better than regular people” – I think this phrasing is used when someone can’t do anything ‘any better than’ some group. “It was reaching late in the afternoon by this point” – suggest for directness. “We’ll let you know as soon as we hear a thing” – anything? “walked down the hallways of the mansion for a few minutes” – where are they going? “He can’t have had anything to do with this” – Why not? What makes them think this? They don’t seem to consider the possibility that someone could lie to them. “There’s no seeming connection between the names, save ours” – I don’t find this all that clear, because of the breaking of the phrase. ‘Seemingly, there’s no connection’ to me, is much more direct. I forgot who Ae was and what he was. Maybe WRS though. “the theft in the records” – of the records? “to see if anything else was stolen” – was anything stolen? I thought the list was created by someone, not part of an official register, so, the list didn’t really belong to the Society, did it? Therefore, nothing physical was stolen, but rather information. “in one of the upper levels” – suggest ‘on’ Very nice punchline. I suppose I should have suspected that, but I didn’t, so nice job. This part flows well enough, but I want the stakes to be higher. I don’t think that needs to mean end of the world, but I just don’t feel much urgency or danger. It was slow in places, and I think some cutting and condensing language would serve the piece well where ‘they’ lapse into quite fine detail that steals any momentum that is built up. I enjoyed the characters and the dynamics of the relationships. Others have said it, as have I in the (distant!) past, but perhaps not enough recently: the depth of the world; the systems; the setting; the background; the ‘magic’, is just so deep, colourful, immersive and so very, very satisfying. Even when the plot is not quite singing, it is still very enjoyable to read. All the more reason, of course, to strive to hone the plot to be the best it can be. <R> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 06/02/2018 at 3:32 AM, kais said: A slow start but it built steam around page twelve and I was hooked from there on. I think I'm still having a hard time buying into our main protag. I feel like I don't know much about him at all, or his motivations other than OMG THE LIST! I'm also still fuzzy on the stakes surrounding the list (other than being killed?). But visiting all the people was fun! Yes, #iagreewithkais 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinski Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 09/02/2018 at 1:47 PM, Mandamon said: On 06/02/2018 at 3:32 AM, kais said: why is the pixie having problems talking? Hmm...this should have come across in Seeds, too. Maybe I need to read those convos again. Pixies tend toward very clipped speech, sort of like shorthand notes. For what it's worth, I was fine with this, as I remembered that pixies talk 'funny' in this manner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted February 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Robinski said: The method of working sounds really unprofessional. I'm not sure how they achieve anything. Hmm...another against. I'm going for grad student-level bickering, with a dash of mad scientist for these two. Any thoughts on how to better convey this? @Robinski, @industrialistDragon, or @kais? Also, many thanks for @Robinski for all the comments! I'll be editing this section in a couple day and may have some more questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrialistDragon Posted February 17, 2018 Report Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Mandamon said: I'm going for grad student-level bickering, with a dash of mad scientist for these two. Maybe have them arguing over something that's not what they're working on, while their actions are obviously those of people who work together well? Or have them arguing over something petty about the project while sharing something easily? Or have them agree-arguing? I don't really know... I feel like, right now, they're arguing over basic level things you'd have to have worked out if you're going to collaborate with someone, like sharing tools, and they're meaning it. It didn't feel like playful teasing or banter to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kais Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Mandamon said: grad student-level bickering Aheh... So...have them sleep-deprived, in a windowless room with too many desks, drinking a caffeinated beverage and arguing about fundamentally the same thing, just using progressively bigger and bigger words until they babble into the nonsensical. Bonus points if someone with less experience comes in ('the undergrad') and points to the solution in their sophomore level textbook. My experience is that grad students often get lost in the weeds. They have the ability to go more in-depth, but they don't necessarily have the ability to contextualize everything they're reading just yet. Often the solutions they need are very simple, and they've overlooked them because of the simplicity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandamon Posted February 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Great ideas, @industrialistDragon and @kais. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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