Adolin radiant or NOT? (SPOILER WOR)

[Bobobagins]

At the end of Words of radiant Adolin "murders" Sadias it's just a small thing but no radiant so far in the story has been a murderer and any killing by Shallan or Kaladin has always had an element of defence. Adolins killing of Sadias however was clearly cold blooded murder even if Sadias was a git.... This leads me to think that with WOR underlying theme for the first and third oaths Adolin won't be able to bond a Sprin In which case considering his nature could end up being rather interesting development when it comes to his relationships with the other characters especially the radiant ones.

THOUGHTS????

[taveren]

i think he will get that honorblade

[Duskshard]

Before WoR I didn't see Adolin becoming a radiant but now I do. But I see it happening in a different way. Instead of attracting a live spren I can see him reviving the spren that is his shardblade. 

 

I can see that the killing of Sadeas (which I was so happy about btw) causing cracks in his soul which the spren that is his blade can seep into as Adolin say's the first ideal, while trying to come to terms with what he's done. Then at the point that he faces what he's done and accepts the consequences he say's the second ideal of the order that the blade represents (the Dustbringers I'm thinking) and the spren comes back to life. 

[Aleksiel]

Actually, I can argue it was pretty close to what Nalan has been doing. Adolin has some affinity towards justice - he stayed in prison with Kaladin, he didn't argue it was unfair to have four against him, he was only thinking about the loop that was exploited, he executed Sadeas for his crimes after failing to bring him to court or a duel. And he is nothing if not confident. Though Adolin doesn't hear his Blade scream or feel repulsed by it, so he most likely isn't a surgebinder yet. I'd like to see him awakening his dead spren (the Shardblade) and may be be a Skybreaker.

[flinn]

i think he will get that honorblade

 Yep, that is what I have been wondering. At first I was thinking Dalinar until he bonded Stormfather and was told no shards. The next logical step is Adolin.

[lummi]

I feel like Adolin is on his way to become a really bad ( frightening)  person. I think that he will steal the sword and go rouge and since Kaladin won't be there to stop him I'm afraid he will do something to Dalinear or Renarin he will regret.

Edited March 8, 2014 by lummi

[Fric]

I believe at one point while Kaladin is all "Ima kill everybody cause I hate them all" Syl says something along the lines of "You're not supposed to be like this, you're not a Skybreaker", so I'm thinking he might become a Skybreaker it seems to point to them being angry and vengeful.

(Too lazy to look up actual quotes, it's a big book, too much time, sorry)

[Baine]

It wasn't cold-blooded murder. He did not deliberately plan it out beforehand. He did it in the heat of the moment, while absolutely enraged.

[Gamma Fiend]

I think there's definitely something there between Adolin talking to his Blade. The whole mindset of "I don't know it's name" is just very different from all other Shardbearers, and I think he will somehow end up reviving his Shardblade into a Spren.

BUT then there is also the potential for Adolin going down that "darker" path. If The Kaladin/Shallan thing goes any further, Adolin could get pretty upset and jealous. (Ya know, all those storming Radiants hanging out, thinking they're better than him).

I still think he can be KR material though.

I'm just gonna be waiting for in book 3 when somebody just randomly finds an Oathbringer just chilling outside and is just like, "Uhm. What?"

[Fric]

I'm just gonna be waiting for in book 3 when somebody just randomly finds an Oathbringer just chilling outside and is just like, "Uhm. What?"

 

Huh?  Why would Oathbringer be outside?  I think you are mistaking Adolin throwing the dagger he killed Sadeas with outside with Oathbringer.  As far as I could tell he left Sadeas and Oathbringer where they were.

 

Nevermind, audiobook confused me, didn't see the capital B.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Fric

[Aleksiel]

Huh?  Why would Oathbringer be outside?  I think you are mistaking Adolin throwing the dagger he killed Sadeas with outside with Oathbringer.  As far as I could tell he left Sadeas and Oathbringer where they were.

 

I believe you are mistaken:

 

 

He ditched the Blade out a window, dropping it down into one of the planterlike outcroppings of the terrace below.

It might be safe there.

 

[RIT]

Huh? Why would Oathbringer be outside? I think you are mistaking Adolin throwing the dagger he killed Sadeas with outside with Oathbringer. As far as I could tell he left Sadeas and Oathbringer where they were.

Just re-read the sequence it definitely says that Adolin ditched the Blade, Capitol B. and that it should be safe there. I don't think he's concerned about his side knife being safe.

Edit:ninja'd

Edited March 8, 2014 by RIT

[Fric]

Yeah, that's what I get for listening to the audio book rather than reading the hardcopy. After going back in it to check I see that I was indeed wrong.  The wording made it seem much more like the dagger than the Shardblade to me.

[Paradox]

Adolin's murder of Sadeas basically goes completely against the first ideal. The first ideal is all basically about the means by which we obtain a goal is more important than the goal itself. I.e it is bad to condemn a hundred to save a thousand kind of thing. Not only that Adolin murders Sadeas is complete cold blood. He takes it upon himself to be judge jury and executioner, sound like someone we know? It does, it sounds like Nalan and his fake skybreakers.

 

I don't think any of his 'skybreakers' are actually bonded to spren... hell in the lift interlude one of them straight up murders gawx for no reason... pretty sure that would completely destroy any of the radiant oaths (unless "I will murder people to further my own agenda", is one of them). Also let me put this out there, syl describes Szeth as an abomination, she doesn't even say anything CLOSE to that about her 'opposite' spren the cryptics. This leads me to believe that none of the radiant spren would ever bond with him, and it seems that Nalan is just letting whoever he likes into the 'skybreakers' without consideration for the ideals.

 

I think Adolin is starting to go down a very dark path, the absolute rage he feels when killing Sadeas is extreme, you could say he was odious in his pursuit of killing Sadeas. It just doesn't seem like a good Radiant type quality to have in a character. Also it is implied that a person needs to be 'broken' to gain the powers of Honor/Cultivations and Odium, something Adolin is most certainly not.

[Edgedancer]

Well, Jasnah was very calculating when she killed those thugs and her spren dosen´t even focus on any kind of justice, so I don´t think that killing Sadeas by itself is enough to disqualify Adolin from being a KR.

[RIT]

@Paradox. But he doesn't murder gawx for no reason. When being chastised does the say something along the lines of "but I had to go through with what I promised" which makes sense if they view promises and laws above all else.

[Paradox]

Well, Jasnah was very calculating when she killed those thugs and her spren dosen´t even focus on any kind of justice, so I don´t think that killing Sadeas by itself is enough to disqualify Adolin from being a KR.

 

Sure Jasnah was cold and calculating when she killed those thugs, but in the end it was a direct act of self defense. I don't think the fact that she intentionally put herself in a situation where she would have to defend herself is actually wrong in any sense. Fact of the matter is, those thugs were actively trying rob and rape Jasnah and Shallan, I don't think killing them breaks the first ideal. Maybe the act of going to hunt them down was against it. But then Jasnah couldn't even be sure that they would come to rob them. She simply made herself a target and it was up to the thugs to make the decision to go after her and Shallan. I don't think making yourself a target is agaisnt the ideals.

 

On the other hand Sadeas was just being a massive d-bag to Adolin. Adolin describes himself as 'snapping'... not very encouraging terminology for a potential knight wouldn't you agree? I mean seriously, just think about it. what the actual hell was Sadeas going to do to properly discredit Dalinar. Kaladin could ****ing fly for christs sake, Shallan literally teleported thousands of people to a mythical city instantly. I think Sadeas would have been publicly ridiculed and shamed if he continued to sow dissention against Dalinar. What i am trying to say is that exactly like how the thugs that night with Jasnah made the choice to go rob her. Adolin had any number of OTHER choices he could have made instead of killing Sadeas. He could have Sadeas finally condemned for his betrayal of Dalinar at the tower. Elhokar would certainly of followed through with that, Dalinar would have had 3 highprinces and 4 armies to back him up this time instead of only himself. It wouldn't have been challanged.

 

I could go on and on about all the other options available to Adolin. The fact of the matter is he chose what is basically one of the worst options in that situation becuse he couldn't see past his hatred of the man. Adolin didn't care about true justice or anything in his actions against Sadeas. He simply hated the man with supernatural and blinding fury and has been wanting to kill him since the tower. This was the perfect and first opportunity for him to kill Sadeas and get away with it, and he seieved it by the throat (see what I did there?) without hesitation.

 

@RIT. The 'skybreaker; actually says "But i had to do as i had threatened...". 'Threatened' not promised, and a threat is most certainly not a promise. Do you honestly believe an order of the knights radiant that is supposodly all about justice would go around making, and following through with, threats to the lives on innocents simply to get what they want. No way in hell would a spren bond to a person like that. Atleast not for long, that would ****ing destroy the first ideal and kill the spren. then BAM no more skybreaker.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Paradox

[Aleksiel]

...

 

 What Nalan did to Ym was not self defense either, but it was justified in a twisted manner. The treason of Sadeas deserved him an execution that Adolin provided. Now, your reasoning makes perfect sense and I agree with you on certain points. What Adolin did was not right, however was justified which as Syl pointed out are two different things. Honorspren care about doing the right thing and highspren cherish lawfulness above everything else.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Paradox]

 What Nalan did to Ym was not self defense either, but it was justified in a twisted manner. The treason of Sadeas deserved him an execution that Adolin provided. Now, your reasoning makes perfect sense and I agree with you on certain points. What Adolin did was not right, however was justified which as Syl pointed out are two different things. Honorspren care about doing the right thing and highspren cherish lawfulness above everything else.

 

I honestly don't think we can use Nalan as an example of an upstanding Skybreaker, he was one of the heralds who knowningly broke the oathpact. What is probably one the most important promises in the entire damnation galaxy (its like top 20 for sure),  the heralds were deluding themselves if they thought leaving Taln behind would be enough. I think it is pretty clear that he is not right in the head in any way shape or form. Ultimately the heralds aren't bonded to any spren so, as far as we know, aren't actually bound to any ideals, and since they have already forsaken a much more important oath I don't see why they would think it too much of a hassle to break something as 'silly' as the Radiant Ideals.

 

He is following the letter of the law, not the spirit of it. From the ideals of the other Radiant orders we know of, I find it hard to believe that one of them is "I will follow the letter of the law, even when it is not right and is downright despicable". I think he is acting on a corrupted set of ideals. I.e "I will uphold the spirit of the law, I will pursue justice" would become something like "I will pursue justice, even when it is not right". Nalan has ulterious motives in his pursuit of 'justice' he literally says to Lift that her real crime is being a surgebinder. What a load of rust.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Paradox

[Aleksiel]

Well, Nalan isn't a Skybreaker now, is he? I merely used him to give one more example for what Syl said - that what's right and what's lawful are two different things sometimes. Yes, Adolin made a poor choice there, but that doesn't mean he'll end up being Odium's champion. What he did is acceptable to at least one KR order.

[Neru]

Let's not forget that Adolin is also rejecting The Thrill.

 

He really looks like a Skybreaker to me, and it will be awesome when/if he and Kaladin become flying buddies =)

[The Silver Queen]

Jasnah is known to hire assassins to kill people, so I don't think Adolin actions would prevent him from becoming a radiant. There is very little difference, imo, to killing someone yourself and paying someone to kill for you. There are very few people that deserve to be killed more than Sadeas.

 

I honestly think that Kaladin would have killed Sadeas too (or Amaram) if given the chance (prior to the third ideal). The difference between Kaladin and Adolin is that Kal already has a honorspren/Syl who encourages him to act a certain way.

Edited March 8, 2014 by The Silver Queen

[Paradox]

That is what I am trying to say, what he did wasnt acceptable to one of KR orders. At least not in the way he pursued it. The result of Skybreaker v Sadeas situation would be the same I think, it just wouldn't have played out in anywhere near the same way. It probably would have been an execution or something. With all the crimes that warrant his punishment being stated and proven or something else to that effect.

 

I don't think Adolin will end up being a champion of Odium. I just think he isnt KR material, it seems agaisnt all the KR stand for to act in outright anger when pursuing a goal, Journey before destination and all that.

 

I dunno where I am going with the whole Nalan stuff. I just really dislike him and the heralds who abandoned the oathpact, at least the ones that we have seen directly. One it legitimately insane and the other (from the prolouge) is a gibbering coward.

 

@The Silver Queen, The assassin stuff was before she said any of the ideals. We have no evidence of her using them after she came to understand any of her order's ideals. (not saying she hasn't, we just dont know) I imagine she found ways to kill the other ghostbloods that didn't break the first ideal of the knights radiant. Which seems to me, in most cases, to not allow outright murder.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Paradox

[Aleksiel]

That is what I am trying to say, what he did wasnt acceptable to one of KR orders. At least not in the way he pursued it. 

 

 

Then we disagree on the matter

 

 

@The Silver Queen, The assassin stuff was before she said any of the ideals. We have no evidence of her using them after she came to understand any of her order's ideals. (not saying she hasn't, we just dont know) I imagine she found ways to kill the other ghostbloods that didn't break the first ideal of the knights radiant. Which seems to me, in most cases, to not allow outright murder.

 

Did she even know about Ghostblood before her father was killed? It was Gavilar's death that set Jasnah on the way of discovering what happened, so those assassinations are a recent event. Her bond with Ivory predates them. 

[TomR]

That is what I am trying to say, what he did wasnt acceptable to one of KR orders. 

 

It wouldn't be acceptable to Windrunners. However, Shallan poisoned her father, and as The Silver Queen said, Jasnah hired assassins. Even within the theme of journey before destination, I expect we'll see a wide range of ideas about ethical action. When it comes to the spren, well, not all spren are honorspren.