[OB] Combat Uses of the Illumination Surge

[Andy92]

You could use this surge to make a flying bear that breathes fire and has the face of a crocodile appear out of nowhere which would pretty much win any war. 

[The One Who Connects]

5 hours ago, RShara said:

There's so much creativity here   But I think the easiest solutions are the best.  Ultrasonic would knock people unconscious easily enough, even cause brain damage or death, and should be easy/low energy to produce.  Or sonic booms to rupture eardrums.

For spying, I don't think actual invisibility would work too well because it would need to constantly change.  But an illusion of a rock or a wall, or a pit where you're standing (you're standing on solid ground against a tent or something, but others see a pit and so walk around you) should work pretty well.  And an illusion of black/gray mottling would do a lot for sneaking around at night.

If she can safely direct that sound away from herself, I'd agree with you. If she can't, that'd be kinda problematic.
The pit illusion runs the risk of something being tossed into it, and people seeing the item disappear. Then again, so does the rock/wall/etc.. so that's always gonna be a risk.

5 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Don't forget about the other component of flashbangs, sound.  So not just blind, but also deaf and disoriented.

It appears that I play the wrong shooting games, since I'm used to calling them "flash grenades," and only having the burst of light. Elantris Related Musings

Spoiler

I find it interesting that we have an Aon for "silence," but not one for sound yet.

5 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

Microwaves:

While gamma waves might be a stretch, microwaves seem much more feasible (and safer for the user).

The problem with that is tech level and scientific knowledge needed to understand the concept of microwaves, but that's radiation in general, to be fair.

[Hsien99]

9 hours ago, RShara said:

Yes?  I'm not sure what your point is?  Not all forms of accessing the Spiritual Realm give the same effects?

 

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yes, but that doesn't mean touching Stormlight gives the rhythms... 

Bronze Allomancers could learn to detect them via a WoB that I believe The One Who Connects shared above, so there is probably a way that a surge could be used to "hear" them but it's not something that a human will just do. Humans aren't built for it. They lack the correct spiritual parts. 

This is off topic I apologize, Isn’t the spiritual realm where all investiture originates from in the cosmere, and once someone uses it the power simply goes back to the realm to be used again? The shards like Honor, Harmony, Cultivation, Odium etc they get their power from the spiritual realm also or are they just connected to it? A shard like honor can hold several thousands, millions, magnitudes more than someone like Kaladin, but all that power is filtered through and interpreted by what each shard represents?

If you had Ruin could he not use his power to create but his very nature is tied to his power he just couldn’t do even if he wanted to even with his power and his knowledge, or if he did it would it diminish him or kill him?

The basic foundation of every power in the cosmere originally came from Adonalsium, now that power is spread over 16 shards each with a agenda that is also based around an ideal/emotion that in turn gives out investiture to the inhabitants on their planet they think are worthy. The power they give is based around what they represent and the people they choose best embodies different aspects of this believe.

Some powers and investiture can cross worlds others can’t either by being internal like breath others like stormlight can’t because it isn’t on other planets, but what if a radiant could use mist as a substitution for stormlight etc. I heard though really rare that some Returned are not of Nalthis or at least it would be possible again though rare to have a Returned not be of the planet. Calderis you said Bronze Allomancers could learn to detect the Rythms and I agree it would be very rare but throughout the cosmere since everything is connected on so many parts there is room for “Interworld Investiture Cohension.”

What do you think would happen if a radiant infused some bronze with stormlight and the allomancer burned it as an example? 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Hsien99

[RShara]

(Please use paragraphs and proper sentences.  Also, if you have further thoughts after you've hit Post, please Edit that post, instead of making two in a row.)

 

Yes, the Spiritual Realm is where almost all investiture resides, including the bulk of a Shard's power.  Ruin would not be able to create by himself because the power would fight him and he'd end up accomplishing very little.

There are ways to "hack" every magic system to use a different type of investiture to power it.  Hacking allomancy is extremely hard, per Brandon.

There are ways for other Shards to create their versions of Returned (i.e. Fused, Heralds, etc).  They wouldn't function exactly the same, since it's different investiture.  Whether Endowment would Return a non-Nalthian?  I find it unlikely, unless the person managed to hack it so that they had enough Connection to Endowment to pull it off, and Endowment decided they would make a good Returned.  There are a number of WoB on this matter if you'd like to look at them on Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net/

The Allomancer wouldn't be able to access the stormlight unless they've somehow hacked the magic system to allow them to use the stormlight, or had a Nahel bond in place.

Edited February 6, 2018 by RShara

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

9 hours ago, Andy92 said:

You could use this surge to make a flying bear that breathes fire and has the face of a crocodile appear out of nowhere which would pretty much win any war. 

Warfare was never the same...

Only question @Andy92, what do you call this Fabulous Flying Figment that is guaranteed to make the Fuzed wet themselves?

5 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

The problem with that is tech level and scientific knowledge needed to understand the concept of microwaves, but that's radiation in general, to be fair.

This might not be as big of a hurdle as it seems. Given that Shallan can create an illusion with the surge of Illumination that is a perfect 3-Dimensional illusion that is perfectly synchronized to another person's slightest movements suggests that there is a fair amount of the underlying mechanics of the surge taking care of the practical details of implementation.

We also know that the order of Lightweavers had members that were artists of different stripes, it wasn't all just painters. From this I think we can infer that it's the cognitive formation of an Ideal form that is actually the necessary component for forming the illusion. Like if you had a very skilled author, who is able to visualize a particular character, they might have to write a short description of the character in their journal to fix the particulars of the cognitive idealized form of the illusion they are going to create before creating the illusion.

This opens the door, for fantastical beasts like @Andy92 suggests. Imagine what kind of hellish lightweavings could be unleased if you had H.P. Lovecraft as a lightweaver, or Arthur Macken, or even Stephen King. The world would truly be a scay and interesting place. Another possible hellish Lightweaver to have on operation scare the Pee out of the Parshendi (so they would Arshendi then I guess) would be H.R. Geiger, the guy who did the alien design from the movie Alien. Nightmares walking, and if they can be substantive like Shallan's sketch army during the battle of Thaylen Fields then holy crap, you might just scare the non-Fuzed, non-Regal Singers into switching sides.

Edited February 6, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[Andy92]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Did you make that?!? I'm in awe lol. 

I would call it something sinister, like Gary. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

Just now, Andy92 said:

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Did you make that?!? I'm in awe lol. 

I would call it something sinister, like Gary. 

Yep sketched it up, it was a rad idea.

Birthed from the blackest pitch of Night, thus did Gary come forth to shift the tide of war. And the ground became as the sea as the Singers, did stop singing, yea and they didst wet themselves with much terror and trembling.

[Calderis]

17 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

We also know that the order of Lightweavers had members that were artists of different stripes, it was all just painters. From this I think we can infer that it's the cognitive ideal formation that actually is the necessary component for forming the illusion. Like if you had a very skilled author, who is able to visualize a particular character, they might have to write a short description of the character in their journal to fix the particulars of the cognitive ideal of the illusion they are going to create before creating the illusion.

I think that this limitation is Shallan specific. Pattern at least believes she doesn't need it, and although it was filled with people from her pictures, she produced the play of the girl who looked up without drawing the setting first. 

I think without her mental issues, and the block they've created, she should just need to visualize it.

Edit: even her limitation as it is has shifted. In WoR she says that if it had been longer than a day (guessing from memory, may be shorter or longer) the image created was fuzzy and wrong. 

In the battle though, she made images of everyone she's ever drawn. 

This is an artificial limit she's somehow imposed on herself. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Calderis

[Storms!]

A Lightweaver would be scary effective in a nighttime, guerrilla-style raid scenario. A trained LW could easily make camouflage to assassinate a few scouts and clear the way for a strike team. Then they each attach illusions to spheres in groups of 3. One sphere as a strobe light, one to make a loud noise (I'm picturing a jail break alarm) and another to make a Gary. The enemy camp would become a nightmare of sound, light, hellish creatures and general mayhem. During the confusion, the soldiers move in and from there, it's just butchery