Mid-Range Game 27: Quarantine

[DrakeMarshall]

50 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

@Kynedath, whilst it is interesting to learn that this is a regular view of yours, I maintain my wholehearted disagreement with it. Acknowledging the possibility of a D1 lynch is something we must all do when we sign up for a game. I contend that little pleasure can really be gained from a game that you refuse to play. Being in an SE game in an of itself ought to provide little fun. Engaging in discussion, thought, and strategizing is what provides the pleasure, not merely having a role. If we don't lynch on D1, we minimise pleasure over the course of the game. We provide less information for D2, and so have a far less interesting D2 lynch discussion. If you're interesting in ensuring people enjoy SE games, it would make sense for you to seek to maximise D1 discussion, which is most easily done by engaging in the lynch discussion. If you put enough energy into it, it won't matter so much whether you're lynched at the end of the day. Having to defend yourself is hugely exciting, and you'll likely get far more out of the game than sitting on the sidelines letting other people discuss. Do you not find yourself more engaged when you have to respond to votes?

I just want to point out that maybe not everyone has your same definition of fun. Analysis may be your thing, but maybe it isn't Kyne's thing.

I do however agree that everybody who signs up for a game should be at peace with the possibility of dying on the first day.

47 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Alright, fair enough Orlock Tsubodai.  Not sure who else to vote on right now. Maybe on Monster Metroid for not sharing pictures of the new Pupper.

Given that metroid is puppy-proofing the house in anticipation of getting a puppy, and their post was only two hours ago, it is quite probable that they do not have the pupper yet, Joe.

@MonsterMetroid you will share a picture of the new pupper once you get it, right? 

[A Joe in the Bush]

1 minute ago, Drake Marshall said:

Given that metroid is puppy-proofing the house in anticipation of getting a puppy, and their post was only two hours ago, it is quite probable that they do not have the pupper yet, Joe.

@MonsterMetroid you will share a picture of the new pupper once you get it, right? 

Hmmm, that is true. I suppose I got to excited about Metroid's Pupper.

[DrakeMarshall]

2 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Hmmm, that is true. I suppose I got to excited about Metroid's Pupper.

It happens, Joe. I still hope metroid shows us the pupper once it arrives 

[BrightnessRadiant]

59 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

BrightnessRadiant, it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on my second proposal - that being lynching whoever takes the gun. Through this, we can minimise village deaths through multiple players going for it, and prevent the eliminators from going for the gun unless they've already won.

yeah I like the idea. If we at least agree on it as a rule because then we can have control over how we use the gun as well...like civilized? murderers:P 

If we all agree not to take the gun then no one takes it and it's all good. What would happen if we had sort of an unofficial vote for who takes the gun during a cycle? And then we could vote for who to use it on? Or is that just allowing it to be in danger of getting stolen by the thief? @Sart if the gun is stolen on the same cycle that the player holding it is killed...Will the thief still get the gun? 

[Sart]

2 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

yeah I like the idea. If we at least agree on it as a rule because then we can have control over how we use the gun as well...like civilized? murderers:P 

If we all agree not to take the gun then no one takes it and it's all good. What would happen if we had sort of an unofficial vote for who takes the gun during a cycle? And then we could vote for who to use it on? Or is that just allowing it to be in danger of getting stolen by the thief? @Sart if the gun is stolen on the same cycle that the player holding it is killed...Will the thief still get the gun? 

According to order of actions, yes, that would be the case.

[Jondesu]

Elenion, good of you to respond (and with excellent RP as always). I do have a thought, however, about the best lynch target on the first day:

Sart 

---

Kadal stepped out of the tent, looking angrier than ever. He ignored Mr Klenion, whose words he’d barely even understood. Instead, he shook his fist in the direction of the rest of the army, out of sight at the moment.

”Why, you bastards, why?” He knelt and scribbled our chalklings, mentally commanding them to find the commander who had left them to die, and at least nibble his toes a bit.

[Alvron]

13 hours ago, livinglegend said:

So, what say we have everyone jump at the gun and let the gods of Luck and Chance decide the game?

Yes!  So much yes.  Everyone go for the gun.  Let's have an old fashioned death draw.   17 players enter.  One player leaves.

8 hours ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

I might suggest that each village quick player flips a coin, and goes for it on heads.

Thinking about it, what are peoples' thoughts on agreeing to lynch any player who gets the gun? Such an agreement ought to act as an ultimate deterrent to anyone going for the gun.

I support this.  Let the Gods of Luck and Chance make the call.   

And if a Sneaky player gets the gun?

7 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

For now, I will vote Ronald. Ronald McDonald is a clown, and clowns are terrifying. (also, you haven't said anything yet, @Alvron )

Really?  You're turning my character into a clown?  Very well.  You asked for it.

[Steeldancer]

7 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Yes!  So much yes.  Everyone go for the gun.  Let's have an old fashioned death draw.   17 players enter.  One player leaves.

I support this.  Let the Gods of Luck and Chance make the call.   

And if a Sneaky player gets the gun?

Really?  You're turning my character into a clown?  Very well.  You asked for it.

Alvron, you're not helping my evil alert. But alvron  .

Wait, did jondesu vote on sart? 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Steeldancer

[DrakeMarshall]

6 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Alvron, you're not helping my evil alert.

That depends a lot on what you mean by "help" 

[Alvron]

1 minute ago, Drake Marshall said:

That depends a lot on what you mean by "help" 

[livinglegend]

Lenny tried to listen as everyone talked, but there were so many good things just sitting there. He looked hungrily at the map to yet another stockpile of goods just like these. Lenny was going to need to dig a bigger hole. 

Someone in the corner of the room spoke up suddenly snapping Lenny's attention back to the conversation. "Give it to me of course."

"Why do you deserve the gun?" Lenny asked incredulously. "Does anyone else think it's weird they'd leave 16 of us out here with only one gun? I deserve to live as much as any of you, so I'll take the gun!"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I volunteer as tribute. I'm going to try for the gun. If I somehow get it, I'll save it for later in the game or give it to someone I trust. 

I suggest other villagers don't go for it. If any eliminators fight me for the gun whether I die or they die, the gun is gone and they don't get it.

[manukos]

49 minutes ago, livinglegend said:

 

I volunteer as tribute. I'm going to try for the gun. If I somehow get it, I'll save it for later in the game or give it to someone I trust. 

I suggest other villagers don't go for it. If any eliminators fight me for the gun whether I die or they die, the gun is gone and they don't get it.

you should be careful the way you give the gun to someone , wolfia has created aa sort of ptsd for guns 
also i think i'll go for the crab since i am hungry , ill keep it until someone acts suspiciously 

 

[Alvron]

2 hours ago, manukos said:

since i am hungry

I brought some pizza.

[Steeldancer]

@Orlok Tsubodaiwhat do you even mean by player player interactions? I want people... to talk, if that's what you mean. Not sure what youre trying to ask me about. 

I didn't finish up my PMs tonight, I'll get some more out tomorrow. I'm trying to follow my idea, even if some people think it's stupid. I want to see what my ideas turn up, so yeah I'll do that in the morning. Thankfully, no shows on Sunday. 

[Kynedath]

So, I'm seeing discussion about clowns, dogs, Jondesu voting for the GM, crazy stuff. The main points that I see are the map, the gun, and BrightnessRadiant's question about whether we should all just declare what we are trying to get from the stockpile (which I don't think has been answered yet).

I'm fine with Joe taking the map, the more items available to us the better. The only thing that I am worried about is if Joe is an eliminator and won't use it to deprive the village of items, but at that point, he would just be outing himself as an elim to the village, so the chances of that are low.

As for the gun, my opinion is that I'm not willing to risk my life for it. You guys go ahead, I plan on sticking around to catch the forgotten with my expert powers of analysis and statistics!

The last point is more complicated. On one hand, it would give the village a ton of information, but the problem is that people are able to lie as much as they want, especially the eliminators. In the late game that would be catastrophic. The other thing is that it gives the elims info on the village as well. I'm personally against it, but again, I haven't seen really any discussion surrounding this topic.

[livinglegend]

Spoiler

The main mechanic in this game is the camp supply. This is a list of items that is available to the thread. As an action, anyone can take an item they want from the supply. However, the thread will be notified next cycle of who took what.

 

43 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

The last point is more complicated. On one hand, it would give the village a ton of information, but the problem is that people are able to lie as much as they want, especially the eliminators. In the late game that would be catastrophic. The other thing is that it gives the elims info on the village as well. I'm personally against it, but again, I haven't seen really any discussion surrounding this topic.

Hmm. While you are right that the village and eliminators have more information in the moment, the possibility of lying removes that upside and downside. Given that it is announced in the writeup who took what, that seems like the only check we need on knowing what items were given to whom.

The possible upside of coordinating beforehand only extends to making sure everyone gets something, but that nullifies the whole ability given to the quicks. The exception being with the gun(s) which have a much more costly effect attached than ending up empty handed. In fact, ending up empty handed on the gun seems like the ideal outcome.

Hence I have announced my run for the gun.

Outside that, I don't feel like it's super relevant who ends up with crabs or the map. We'll be told in the thread who has what, and they can be held accountable for misuse.

**of course, Lenny should end up with all the items. That's the only way that's truly fair for everyone else. 

[MonsterMetroid]

11 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

It happens, Joe. I still hope metroid shows us the pupper once it arrives 

Oh my goodness you guys just reminded me I haven't taken a picture of it yet. Let me rectify that right now!

Not the best picture I couldn't get him to look at the camera haha poor guy is really tired from his day today.

Sorry about the distractions though I will read through the thread right now and post responses.

[Kynedath]

32 minutes ago, livinglegend said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The main mechanic in this game is the camp supply. This is a list of items that is available to the thread. As an action, anyone can take an item they want from the supply. However, the thread will be notified next cycle of who took what.

Hmm. While you are right that the village and eliminators have more information in the moment, the possibility of lying removes that upside and downside. Given that it is announced in the writeup who took what, that seems like the only check we need on knowing what items were given to whom.

I meant that the info we got was the difference between the claims and the results.

[Sart]

12 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

@Sart, if multiple sneaky players attempt to steal the gun, would all but one of them die, with the gun being lost?

That is correct, yes. Sneaky players have to go through the tie break process just like everyone else. The only exception to the tie break process is quick players. To make this totally clear, if a quick player and a normal player goes after the gun, there will be a struggle, the gun will be lost, and the normal player will die.

[Eternum]

Sorry for being inactive! I was slightly busy..

Anyway, something I noticed is that we should be careful of people that take buckets of acid. They seem to have only one real use for villagers, and  are very useful to elims.

Other than letting everyone see what a Sneaky player is taking from the stock, which is the only thing I can see the village benefitting in any way from (and from which the Elims can also benefit) it nullifies the only form of defence against kills we have, and that second effect can only be really useful if you're conspiring with someone (hint hint, elims).

Anyway, regarding the actual game, as far as I've seen there hasn't been anything truly alignment-indicative so far. Just the usual D1 "lynch or no lynch" I'll wait for now. I'd like a lynch, but so far there haven't been any real targets.

Everyone going for the gun would be hilarious, and it would make this a game to remember, but it would end a tad too quickly for my tastes 

[Jondesu]

17 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Wait, did jondesu vote on sart? 

Yes, yes I did.

[Orlok Tsubodai]

20 hours ago, Kynedath said:

While I do agree that interaction and discussion are integral parts of SE and do provide a wealth of entertainment, I disagree that my stance detracts from the overall experience and long-term pleasure of the game. I would contend that there is not in fact less information D2. Every post and every action tells us something, the post doesn't have to be a vote or something about a vote. For example, your post and mine both have information on our state of mind, style of 'interrogation', some insight into our motives, even our style of writing which can sometimes come into play. And I would also argue that throughout my, albeit limited, SE career, my stance has brought discussion onto the table without fail. Every time I try to stay out of it, someone puts a vote on me or disagrees with me. By taking this stance, I too am encouraging discussion, just by a different method.

And you're right, having to defend yourself is exciting. But I find it far more exciting and engaging when the accuser has valid and logical points to defend against. I am having the time of my life defending against your arguments and debating with you, however you have far more experience with this than I do and you are able to create those arguments more quickly than I can. I find it difficult to find valid arguments as to why someone is acting suspiciously with as small an information pool as there is on day 1. As such, I can't create that engaging discussion unless I flat out accuse someone on absolutely no grounds whatsoever. Baseless accusations are simply tiring and frustrating to deal with.

Trust me, I plan on voting, like I said, it's how we win the game. But I don't feel I have enough information to properly accuse someone of being guilty on the first cycle. I never have. If you want my commentary on everyone else in the game, then stop giving me such great arguments to defend from and giving me a reason to write these storming long paragraphs in my defense.

This is a fascinating angle through which to view it. I agree that it creates discussion, but do still have reservations. I think that there exists a danger that such discussion isn't alignment indicative, as it focuses on meta-discussion rather than alignment information, and I maintain my view that I'd like to see a greater number of opinions from you. Equally, I do think it fascinating that @MacThorstenson jumped on the vote on me that it created. In the expectation of more opinions from you tomorrow, Kynedath.

16 hours ago, livinglegend said:

I volunteer as tribute. I'm going to try for the gun. If I somehow get it, I'll save it for later in the game or give it to someone I trust. 

I suggest other villagers don't go for it. If any eliminators fight me for the gun whether I die or they die, the gun is gone and they don't get it.

I think, on reflection, that this is the strategy for the gun that I'm most inclined to endorse. This both presents a significant deterrent to the eliminator team, and avoids village deaths. @livinglegend, I presume you plan on holding onto the gun, rather than using it?

11 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

@Orlok Tsubodaiwhat do you even mean by player player interactions? I want people... to talk, if that's what you mean. Not sure what youre trying to ask me about. 

I didn't finish up my PMs tonight, I'll get some more out tomorrow. I'm trying to follow my idea, even if some people think it's stupid. I want to see what my ideas turn up, so yeah I'll do that in the morning. Thankfully, no shows on Sunday. 

@Steeldancer, I mean player's accusations or defences of other players, correlations of votes or lack thereof, and discussions that have occurred. You contributions thus far haven't really given us any opinions of yours, other than repetitions of standard advice. My interactions with you have given me an odd feeling, which I'm struggling to place. I'm not sure whether our PM interactions give a terribly flattering view of you. You seem to be pursuing a strategy that puts you at the centre of PM discussion, by having 15 discussions of your ideas with you alone, and not open discussions, and in so doing, your strategy decreases village information. For the record, Steeldancer's idea that he mentioned to me was looking at people expressing suspicion that they don't vote on. This is a valid, if not entirely new, factor of analysis, but should form but a part of analysis, rather than replacing it altogether. I think, on balance, I'm going to vote on Steeldancer.

9 hours ago, Kynedath said:

So, I'm seeing discussion about clowns, dogs, Jondesu voting for the GM, crazy stuff. The main points that I see are the map, the gun, and BrightnessRadiant's question about whether we should all just declare what we are trying to get from the stockpile (which I don't think has been answered yet).

I'm fine with Joe taking the map, the more items available to us the better. The only thing that I am worried about is if Joe is an eliminator and won't use it to deprive the village of items, but at that point, he would just be outing himself as an elim to the village, so the chances of that are low.

As for the gun, my opinion is that I'm not willing to risk my life for it. You guys go ahead, I plan on sticking around to catch the forgotten with my expert powers of analysis and statistics!

The last point is more complicated. On one hand, it would give the village a ton of information, but the problem is that people are able to lie as much as they want, especially the eliminators. In the late game that would be catastrophic. The other thing is that it gives the elims info on the village as well. I'm personally against it, but again, I haven't seen really any discussion surrounding this topic.

This, actually, makes me pretty suspicious of you, @Kynedath. I'm slightly concerned that this game might be broken, in that if every player goes for an item and declares it, we can see which players should have received an item but don't, which in turn gives a very small pool of players who could have made the eliminator kill. 

2 hours ago, Eternum said:

Sorry for being inactive! I was slightly busy..

Anyway, something I noticed is that we should be careful of people that take buckets of acid. They seem to have only one real use for villagers, and  are very useful to elims.

Other than letting everyone see what a Sneaky player is taking from the stock, which is the only thing I can see the village benefitting in any way from (and from which the Elims can also benefit) it nullifies the only form of defence against kills we have, and that second effect can only be really useful if you're conspiring with someone (hint hint, elims).

Anyway, regarding the actual game, as far as I've seen there hasn't been anything truly alignment-indicative so far. Just the usual D1 "lynch or no lynch" I'll wait for now. I'd like a lynch, but so far there haven't been any real targets.

Everyone going for the gun would be hilarious, and it would make this a game to remember, but it would end a tad too quickly for my tastes 

I'd make the same point here as I made about Steeldancer earlier in turn. I think it a pretty significant understatement of the turn to summate it as "lynch or no lynch" discussion. I think there are a number of fair lynches at this stage - I still have a vote on me, and have offered thoughts on Steeldancer and Kynedath. Given this, @Eternum, would you give further thoughts on players?

[MacThorstenson]

4 minutes ago, Orlok Tsubodai said:

This is a fascinating angle through which to view it. I agree that it creates discussion, but do still have reservations. I think that there exists a danger that such discussion isn't alignment indicative, as it focuses on meta-discussion rather than alignment information, and I maintain my view that I'd like to see a greater number of opinions from you. Equally, I do think it fascinating that @MacThorstenson jumped on the vote on me that it created. In the expectation of more opinions from you tomorrow, Kynedath.

I must confess that when I jumped on the vote on you, it was simply due to the act that we have so very little information about everyone this early in the game, your words gave me a slight justification to vote for you, so I took it. Considering the other reasons that people are voting on, I think its justified on a D1. 

[Orlok Tsubodai]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

I must confess that when I jumped on the vote on you, it was simply due to the act that we have so very little information about everyone this early in the game, your words gave me a slight justification to vote for you, so I took it. Considering the other reasons that people are voting on, I think its justified on a D1. 

I don't think it unjustifiable D1, although it's not the strongest reasoning I've seen. Almost as interesting is keeping the vote on me after I made clear that I wasn't aware that such an action was a staple of Kynedath. I'd like to know why you still think it worth lynching me. I'd also like your input on the other points I made - on Steeldancer, and on whether we should declare which item we're going to go for, given the potential it has to strip kills from the eliminators.

[Steeldancer]

Orlok, are you even paying attention? I'm not replacing analysis. I'm trying a new format. I also don't appreciate how you threw my idea under the bus without giving it a chance. Makes me feel like you're trying to shut me down. 

And yes, i like making PMs. I find PMs increase village activity, and my own. It seems stupid not to utilize them. I fail to see how splitting up information hurts the village- the whole point is to keep the elims from gaining information. Which, unhelpfully, Orlok just distributed. So I am annoyed and suspicious. However, I'm going to refrain from voting until I get back from church.