The Night Watcher

[OB] Kaladin and Azure?

4 posts in this topic

As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely no support for this in the books, but I just get a feeling that Azure's and Kaladin's relationship might evolve in the future to something romantic. They're both passionate about what they care for (the men in their care, Kaladin for obvious reasons, and Azure with proper treatment and loyalty even in pressing situations), have seen the rough sides of the world, and seem the share traits such as: persistence, pragmatism, and obvious leadership skills.  

I am one of the people that does not want Shallan and Kaladin to end up together.

1. I think Kaladin's shift from "lighteyes are awful!" to "I like Shallan!" was a bit too quick. At least in the beginning. Once I got used to it, it made sense, but even rereading those chapters, I'm grimacing a bit.  

2. I don't think Kaladin should be in a relationship with a lighteyes. Yeah, he's come a long way from the distrusting wretch he was, but even with changed people, there's always the ingrained bias. (It's very tough to change a racist person into a picture-perfect egalitarian, no matter what therapy and experience may tell them otherwise.) 

3. Brandon Sanderson is too smart to make a love triangle.

So, with Shallan out of the way (at least, in my opinion), I do think that Kaladin is going to end up in a relationship with someone. Unless, of course, he goes through more character growth and accepts himself as himself. That, however, is not the current case, as Kal seems to be the kind of person who needs — craves — reassurance from other people. Syl, Dalinar, or Bridge Four. Kaladin is always talked through his depression, with much oppositional thought and relapse. I think he'd really benefit from a relationship, where he's given love and affection with no strings attached, and he'd really soften up. (Dear Lord, someone give that boy a hug.) Syl, I believe, knows that, too, and that's why she's always pressing him to make a move.

With all that in mind, I think Azure would be a good fit for him, at least for a short time. My guess is that they'd never have a long-term relationship, just because their goals are so different and would drive them to part ways. But I think for the little while that it did last it would do him good, and the end of the relationship would be with mutual respect in both directions. 

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1 hour ago, The Night Watcher said:

1. I think Kaladin's shift from "lighteyes are awful!" to "I like Shallan!" was a bit too quick. At least in the beginning. Once I got used to it, it made sense, but even rereading those chapters, I'm grimacing a bit.

He is overcoming his hate towards lighteyes after all these years hating on them all. Would you expect Kaladin to be hating on them until bok 8 or 9? He still hasn't overcome it fully, but it's almost done and it was well paced.

 

1 hour ago, The Night Watcher said:

2. I don't think Kaladin should be in a relationship with a lighteyes. Yeah, he's come a long way from the distrusting wretch he was, but even with changed people, there's always the ingrained bias. (It's very tough to change a racist person into a picture-perfect egalitarian, no matter what therapy and experience may tell them otherwise.) 

I think that Kaladin is not a racist. He just drags hate for the dominant class after being treated as a mere resource, being stomp by the lighteyes because they are the nobility and can do as they please. 

Anyway, it's possible to cure racism. The bias con be eliminated by growing as a person and empathizing with other races. You think that racism can't be cured, that's a nonsense imo. Racism often comes from fear, being it conscious or subconscious. It is possible to overcome this, of course, traveling, opening to new experiences and cultures, etc. Kaladin's hate doesn't come from cultural differences, it was forged by the losses and humilliations he suffered, so he ended up hating lighteyes in general. He's wrong, as he has already realised.

What better proof of a gone racism behavior than marrying a lighteyes? This is not even needed, he befriended Adolin, respects him and Dalinar (specially Dalinar), come to terms with Elhokar and feels guilt for his death. Yeah, I see no ingrained bias.

1 hour ago, The Night Watcher said:

3. Brandon Sanderson is too smart to make a love triangle.

I'm sorry that all the love triangles you read were bad. It's just a normal plot device, handled poorly most of the times (but blame that to the author of the piece) but that doesn't mean its a bad idea if you know how to handle a triangle. To start, how can what we had in OB be a triangle when Kaladin didn't move an inch to try to get Shallan? He was passive, telling himself that she's bethroted to Adolin, and did not make a single move. So I wouldn't call this a triangle.

 

1 hour ago, The Night Watcher said:

They're both passionate about what they care for (the men in their care, Kaladin for obvious reasons, and Azure with proper treatment and loyalty even in pressing situations), have seen the rough sides of the world, and seem the share traits such as: persistence, pragmatism, and obvious leadership skills.  

I think that in this paragraph you are stretching it alot, as msot of these things can be applied to Shallan (or one of her personas).

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3 hours ago, The Night Watcher said:

 I don't think Kaladin should be in a relationship with a lighteyes. Yeah, he's come a long way from the distrusting wretch he was, but even with changed people, there's always the ingrained bias. (It's very tough to change a racist person into a picture-perfect egalitarian, no matter what therapy and experience may tell them otherwise.)

I don't think Kaladin is racist. Based on his personal experiences, he hates the oppression the people of lower birth (darkeyes) have been put through at the hands of the noble class (lighteyes). He didn't have a chance to get to know many lighteyed people personally in his early years, aside from Laral, who was his best friend growing up. Now that he is a part-time lighteyes himself, and is hanging around more lighteyes, he is seeing that not all of them are bad. In Oathbringer he is much more open to having lighteyed friends, and doesn't lump them all into together like he used to. I don't see anything in his storyline to prevent him from having a romantic relationship with a lighteyed person.

Also, Azure, aka Vivenna, is lighteyed. She is described as having orange eyes in Oathbringer. So that rules her out if you don't want Kaladin to date a lighteyed woman. 

I also don't see any evidence that Kaladin craves reassurance. He seems pretty self-motivated and self-sufficient to me. Beginning back in childhood, he took the initiative to do things other people did not want or expect him to do, without any outside input. He became a soldier to protect Tien, he became a squad leader to protect kids sent into battle, he lead multiple escape attempts to help his fellow slaves, he took over leadership of Bridge Four and saved their lives, he helped Dalinar and co. at the Tower, he jumped in the ring to help Adolin in his duel, he stood against Graves and Moash to save Elhokar from assassination, he trained the parshmen in Alethkar, he was determined to get to Thaylen City to protect Dalinar, etc. He did all of this own his own without reassurance or outside support, and much was done against the wishes of those around him.

To your main point, perhaps Kaladin and Azure could have a relationship. It's not out of the question. Though as a worldhopper, I don't see her staying on Roshar permanently, once her bounty hunting is over. Roshar isn't a very friendly place in a desolation so she may go back home when she's done there.

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