Colby Jack

Kaladin's Parents 2.0

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So while everyone talk about powers and swords, I want to talk about something more personal. A while back, I made this topic about Kaladin's parents.

In Words of Radiance, our boy has went from rags to riches when he finally accepted his role and became a part of Dalinar's new Knight Radiant order. Now, it's almost certain that he'll return to Hearthstone in the next book. But. What exactly will he go home to?

As I've said in the last thread, the situation in Hearthstone really stinks. Kaladin's parents have always been portrayed very positively in his flashbacks. It's really out-of-character for either of them to just cut off their sons as coldly as they did Kaladin and Tien when the boys were recruited into the military. Seriously, not one letter from them in Kaladin's entire military career. It's a bit heartless of them, ain't it? There are a lot of ways for his parents to contact Kaladin if they wanted to. His mother can read and write, and there should be fresh recruits for Amaram's army every year. They also have the spheres for it too, if they wanted to be fancy. It's not like they still held out much hope for Kaladin to be a doctor after his recruitment.

So unless Kaladin's flashback is really unreliable and his parents truly are heartless, there are only two explantions:

1) Someone with power and money intercepted/stole all of the letters between two parties.
2) Roshone continued to prove to us what a bastard he is and has done something terrible to Kaladin's parents after Amaram snatched up their sons for his army.

After the latest book, I lean more towards latter option than ever. To be honest, I've always thought that Roshone was a really petty and evil person. Now, Dalinar has confirmed this for us. He's the ambitious kind who'll even kill people for profit. Even for a lighteyed, he's a horrible person. He is dangerous. Like it or not, he have the most authority over Hearthstone, and he is a cousin to Amaram, a powerful lord and a shardbearer for almost two years. Roshone can easily use his cousin's name to increase his power in that time. Even if this weren't the case, I have doubts that this would stop at Kaladin and Tien. Roshone and Lirin already had a fierce rivalry between them prior to his Rillir's death. After Roshone robbed Lirin of his own sons, you can say they're even, but Kaladin's father still has the spheres that Roshone so desperately wants. It's hardly over.

 

Roshone was exiled to Hearthstone because it was an unknown town. It's not so that he won't be able to hurt anyone anymore, it's so that the damage he caused to others won't make as much noise and can be ignored. Roshone won't be able to do much to lighteyes, but he can still dish out a lot of hurt on the people he is charged to watch over. People only need a little power to abuse it. The fact that he's in exile won't change the fact that he's a greedy S.O.B.

Have Kaladin's parents finally been subdued? Are they currently sharing a cell in Hearthstone? Or worse, are they dead? Either way, I hope Roshone gets what's coming to him, and I hope Kaladin's the one to do it too.

Thoughts?

Also, I hope Kaladin won't fall for Laral all over again. He just barely slipped away from a complicated relationship with Shallan the last book. Him and Laral will be a trainwreck, me thinks.

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As far as I know, Kaladin only sent the one letter, which could have been not delivered for any number of reasons. However, it is a little strange that his parents don't try to contact him (at least, none that gets to Kaladin).

 

From a meta perspective though, I don't think it's going to be something like his parents being locked up or otherwise being terrorized by Roshone; at this point Kaladin isn't realistically challenged by any kind of martial pressure Roshone would be able to bring to bear. I have a feeling that we may find that Lirin's been somewhat broken by the loss of Kaladin and Tien (figuratively and literally respectively). I'm sure we'll have a callback to the discussion Lirin and Kaladin had regarding whether it's possible to kill to save people. One of the things that makes Kaladin figuratively shudder during Shallan's history dump is the thought of him having to have been one to brighten his family, rather than Tien; it would be an interesting irony for him to find himself in precisely that situation, especially given that so far he's always been the moody one.

 

I think it's optimistic (or pessimistic, depending on your favor) to say the Kaladin 'slipped away' from a relationship from Shallan. It actually seems most likely to me that the separation is actually to enhance the relationship - that's the most likely explanation I can come up with for why Helaran's killer is hidden from Shallan (and it requires a fair bit of contorting, since there's at least three separate occasions where a small change would have made it clear to Shallan). I assume that she'll learn about it while Kaladin is away, and that'll drive part of her arc.

 

Of course, Shallan and Kaladin having a relationship practically demands Laral to step into the picture somehow (and Tarah the Chekov's Gunwoman). That said, I don't know that Kaladin really ever 'fell' for Laral in any meaningful way; she's just the only girl he interacts with in his childhood.

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I think we could see a few things.  

 

A.  Roshone has Kaladin's parents imprisoned or otherwise actively being persecuted.  - I highly doubt this will happen, they would be free and safe 10 minutes after Kaladin arrives. If Roshone was persecuting them, it would be an easy second oath issue of protecting the weak.

B.  Roshone has killed them.  -  More likely, but I still doubt it.  Kaladin has already accepted that he needs to protect everyone, and it would just be the Moash story repeated.

C.  His parents are still ostracized and suffering, but not actively persecuted.  -  This seems more likely, his parents are suffering, and they could be emotionally broken, but there is no real enemy attacking them.  Kaladin can't protect them from people not liking them, and if their son turns out to be one of those Radiants, they could suffer even further ostracism.  

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I hate to be a pessimist but I think that either both or one of his parents are dead. Just think about what losing children at a young age will do to a parent.

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WoB  They are still alive,
 
 

INTERVIEW: Dec, 2010  (Q/A Goodreads)  (WoT Interview Database)

Goodreads WoK Fantasy Book Club Q&A with Brandon Sanderson (Verbatim)
1. Are Kaladin's parents still alive, and if so, are they actually mad at him?

BRANDON SANDERSON (GOODREADS) 
1. Yes, they are still alive. RAFO.

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I believe Amaram sent a condolence letter to his parents(or to Roshone to pass along) that states that both their sons died in action.

This maybe explain why they didn't bother to send any letters, they thought both were dead.

Edited by shinintendo
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It's going to be an interesting reunion IMO.  Lirin's hopes laid with Kaladin.  I have a feeling he is a bit of a broken man.  He worked and planned his whole life for his talented son and had it all ripped away in a moment.

 

Furthermore, the only reason Kal went to war was to protect Tien.  I'm sure his parents would've heard of Tien's death and that failure would've driven them further into depression.  It also likely sowed further seeds of hate towards Roshone.  I have a feeling that Kaladin's parents won't be the same people he remembered them being, having been beaten down by life now, if they still live.

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I think Shinintendo is correct. Either that or Roshone told them that both children had died after intercting Kaladin's letter about Tien. In either case, the reason that Kaladin did not receive any letters while in the army would continue to be because his parents thought him dead. His father probably became a drunk and his mother may even have taken some of the spheres and gone back to her family.

I also wonder if Kaladin's father and mother have connections to any of the secret societies. I have to go back and reread the parts where they are talking about radients, heralds, and void bringers in the flashbacks from WoK.

Edited by Chlehrma
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 kaladin, parents, 2.0, roshone, is, very, bad, child, toucher

 

Well according to the tags at the bottom of the thread these words describe this thread.  Somewhat accurate, because Laral was only a child.  

 

As a Shardbearer Kaladin is now a lighteyes and of the 4th Dahn, not to say anything about his being a KR  When he shows up back at Hearthstone Roshone, just like Amaram wont recognize him.  However he is going to assume that Kaladin is on a mission from Dalinar due to the military uniform, the insignia of Dalinar's personal guard, and his light eyes.  

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I can't believe Kal's parents would stay in Hearthstone after everything that happened. I don't know why he is so certain they are still there.

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I can't believe Kal's parents would stay in Hearthstone after everything that happened. I don't know why he is so certain they are still there.

 

You're right, if i were them, I would've gone to Kal's Mother's family

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You're right, if i were them, I would've gone to Kal's Mother's family

 

This was always the more favorable of 2 possibilities that I saw, the other being that they were in Amaram's retinue (which might still be possible).

 

Now if I could only remember where Hesina's parents lived, if it was actually mentioned... 

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You're right, if i were them, I would've gone to Kal's Mother's family

 

You're assuming that Roshone would permit his favorite persecution targets to leave before he utterly and completely broke them.

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You're assuming that Roshone would permit his favorite persecution targets to leave before he utterly and completely broke them.

 

They are citizens of the second nahn with the right of travel. I don't think Roshone has the power to stop them if they wanted to leave.

 

Also getting both of their children drafted into the army already was breaking them. 

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I can't believe Kal's parents would stay in Hearthstone after everything that happened. I don't know why he is so certain they are still there.

 

I believe that they're still there.

 

 

“I tried very hard to leave once,” Lirin said, more softly. “But there’s a tie between a man’s home and his heart. I've cared for these people, Kal. Delivered their children, set their bones, healed their scrapes. You've seen the worst of them, these last few years, but there was a time before that, a good time.” He turned to Kal, clasping his hands in front of him, the carriage rattling. “They’re mine, son. And I’m theirs. They’re my responsibility, now that Wistiow has gone. I can’t leave them to Roshone.”

 

The only place I can imagine them going is to Hesina's parents' place, although from one of Lirin's reactions, that's probably only a last resort.

 

The way I see it, there are three variables affecting Lirin and Hesina in Hearthstone. 

  1. Roshone. He doesn't seem like the type of man to be satisfied with merely wounding Lirin. He will either keep up the current level of pressure or he will try to grind Lirin's soul down even more. Or he will die.
  2. The attitude of the townspeople towards Lirin and Hesina. Will they ever be able to recognize Roshone for who he is, or be able to appreciate Lirin's services? I somewhat doubt it, but we'll see.
  3. The mindset of Lirin. Will he be able to keep himself from despair? Has the loss of his sons made him bitter?
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Kaladin mentioned that it took him two week's wages to write a terse note back to his family stating that Tien was dead. Now, granted, Lirin and Hesina have more money than Kaladin, but perhaps while Kaladin was gone, times were hard and they had to spend all the spheres. Now that it was clear that Kaladin wasn't going to Kharbranth to become a surgeon, Lirin may have given up and started to spend them, especially since their family was starving before Kaladin left.

 

As for Shallan, it makes sense that she didn't put two and two together about Helaran right away. She was in the middle of a highstorm and was under intense pressure to save the world after. Now that she's starting to relax, I think it will connect soon. And I'm excited to see how she'll handle it. :D

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... Why hasn't anyone mentioned the simplest reason Kaladin may never hear from his parents: Roshone is intercepting the letters and destroying them. For the amount of power he has in Hearthstone, this seems pretty simple to accomplish. I wouldn't be surprised if Roshone also destroyed the letter telling them about Tien.

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My theory is somehow Kal's mother is dead and Lirin has become the town drunk.

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I think Roshone would intercept the letter, destroy it, then deliver the news himself. Adding in, of course, words like "deserter", " court martial", and "execution".

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I think Roshone would intercept the letter, destroy it, then deliver the news himself. Adding in, of course, words like "deserter", " court martial", and "execution".

I think Roshone would intercept the letter, destroy it, then deliver the news himself. Adding in, of course, words like "deserter", " court martial", and "execution".

'The letter' is Kaladin's saying Tien is dead, I dint see why roshone wouldbt want to deliver it. I doubt Amaram bothered writing anyone about Kaladin's so-called desertion, since he plainly just wanted to forget the whole thing even happened.

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The possibility of Lirin being broken over losing both his sons allows for another interesting possibility.  That he could end up becoming a Radiant, most likely the same as Ym.  That was the fellow who could heal wasn't it?

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My theory is that Laral has had Roshone's child, and will be another problem for Kal to come to grips with. Most likely Kal will spend a decent chunk of time in Hearthstone, most likely preparing them for the everstorm: protecting as is due. Part of this will end up killing Roshone at the end off a story arc, potentially with something also happening to Kals parents. With Roshone gone, Kal will have to deal with the fact that one his childhood friends (potential relationship) now has this 'spawn'. Kal will have to decide what to do. In my opinion he will intially reject the kid, hurting Laral

And causing more problems. At the end I hope he would accept the kid and decide to help him/her become an honourable person. Get the feeling it will be a boy, would suit the whole Roshone 2.0 a bit more.

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My theory is that Laral has had Roshone's child, and will be another problem for Kal to come to grips with. Most likely Kal will spend a decent chunk of time in Hearthstone, most likely preparing them for the everstorm: protecting as is due. Part of this will end up killing Roshone at the end of a story arc, potentially with something also happening to Kals parents. With Roshone gone, Kal will have to deal with the fact that one his childhood friends (potential relationship) now has this 'spawn'. Kal will have to decide what to do. In my opinion he will intially reject the kid, hurting Laral

And causing more problems. At the end I hope he would accept the kid and decide to help him/her become an honourable person. Get the feeling it will be a boy, would suit the whole Roshone 2.0 a bit more.

Edited by Grimm
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Given Kaladin's history of trying desperately to protect everyone, particularly younger people (see Cenn, the kid in the bridge crews whose death drives Kaladin to near-suicide, even Renarin and Dunny to an extent), I highly doubt he'd hate a kid (who couldn't be older than like 5) because of who his parents are. I do see him being mad at Laral, possibly, though him wanting to rescue her from her betrothal the last time he saw her would indicate that that is also somewhat unlikely.

 

One thing that I am really worried about, though, is that no one will believe it's actually Kaladin. They haven't seen him since he was 15, and he's now a lighteyed shardbearer with slave brands. Who can fly. And his eyes aren't even just a lighter version of the color they were before, they changed from dark brown to really light blue. Amaram didn't recognize Kaladin when he was less changed in appearance AND he had seen him more recently. I mean, Amaram didn't know Kaladin as well as the people in Hearthstone, but still... I feel like it's plausible. And exactly the kind of heart-wrenching thing that Brandon would love to make poor Kal suffer through. :(  

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