BasementDwellingRadiant

[OB] Adolin, a potential Edgedancer?

31 posts in this topic

Given Maya's origins(going by coppermind), and Adolin seemingly being on the road to re-awakening her... you guys think we might be getting a knight radiant Adolin any time soon? Or, do you think lending her out to that guy during the big final battle scene ruined his chances with her? She did seem kind of disappointed(if I remember the text correctly)...

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it could happen. I def don't think lending her out has seriously damaged their connection or anything like that.

I admit I had thought of him as a potential Dustbringer before, but now I can't really see him bonding with any other spren so if he becomes a Radiant he'll have to be an Edgedancer.

But I don't know if it will happen soon, Brandon said reviving a dead blade is super hard (I think) so it might take a while. Adolin's making promising steps but there's no telling how long it will take.

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I think if Adolin becomes an Edgedancer, it will be an atypical bond. My meaning being that Adolin is bonding to Maya specifically, not just any Edgedancer spren. Another way to say this is, normally a Knight Radiant acts with intent to their order (because it's part of their personality) and attracts a spren of the appropriate type. In Adolin's case, he is bonding directly to his sword. He has always treated the sword as a living entity, even though he thought it was inanimate before. Maya is reacting to Adolin's care of her specifically (e.g. when she tries to help in Shadesmar, I view that as her trying to help someone who has been kind to her).

Then again, the second ideal for Edgedancers is "I will remember those who have been forgotten," and the dead spren definitely have been forgotten. So maybe by treating Maya as a living entity this whole time, Adolin has been unconsciously exhibiting Edgedancer traits.

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7 hours ago, Govir said:

Then again, the second ideal for Edgedancers is "I will remember those who have been forgotten," and the dead spren definitely have been forgotten. So maybe by treating Maya as a living entity this whole time, Adolin has been unconsciously exhibiting Edgedancer traits.

He also did a lot of "I will listen to those who are ignored" - people often forget that the "ignored" don't have to be the poor and the downtrodden. Lift achieved this ideal by listening to Nale! So, yea, Adolin listening to Dalinar definitely counts. And so does him listening to Kaladin about Amaram, not to mention him always listening to Renarin, etc.

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1 minute ago, Isilel said:

He also did a lot of "I will listen to those who are ignored" - people often forget that the "ignored" don't have to be the poor and the downtrodden. Lift achieved this ideal by listening to Nale! So, yea, Adolin listening to Dalinar definitely counts. And so does him listening to Kaladin about Amaram, not to mention him always listening to Renarin, etc.

There's a lot about Adolin that fits with what we've seen of Edgedancer oaths. I've gone off about it in other threads, but I don't think what's happening would be happening if Maya were a different spren type. 

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29 minutes ago, Isilel said:

He also did a lot of "I will listen to those who are ignored" - people often forget that the "ignored" don't have to be the poor and the downtrodden. Lift achieved this ideal by listening to Nale! So, yea, Adolin listening to Dalinar definitely counts. And so does him listening to Kaladin about Amaram, not to mention him always listening to Renarin, etc.

You're right about Adolin. I'm just remembering some old threads about people saying Adolin wasn't showing Edgedancer traits. I now think that's wrong.

As for Lift, <Edgedancer spoiler>

Spoiler

didn't she advance to the third ideal by listening to the orphans and figuring out where the Stump went?

 

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I've thought about this a lot and think you're right. Though my theory is that instead of filling the cracks in Adolin's soul, he will fill the cracks in HER soul, as the spren was broken (cracked) when her radiant betrayed his oaths.

I had begun writing out a post but it got lost in the ether while I was at work. I'll just paste it here, even though its incomplete.

Edgedancer examples:

-       Kills Sadeas not solely because of the betrayal but because of the men Adolin and Dalinar lost in the betrayal. Almost more for them than his own life.

-       Constantly recognizing people for their accomplishments. Scar and Dreyhe as examples.

-       Lingers on Shallans sketches of refugees.

-       Talks with his sword, and doesn’t name her because he feels she probably has her own name.

-       Always noticing Renarin and notes that most people don’t realize how keen Renarin is. "If they only spent some time to look at the kid they’d realize it too."

-       Maya giving her name and appearing at 7 heartbeats.

 

But Adolin doesn’t appear to have the cracks necessary to form a Nahel bond. So how could he become radiant? Even Sadeas’ murder doesn’t seem to budge his psyche much more than stressing him out a bit.

What if he has to heal the cracks in Maya’s “soul”?

We have been told repeatedly that this desolation is different from the last. We have corrupt spren defecting, we have good spren defecting. We have heralds turning to Odium through their insanity, we have unmade wanting to leave Odium etc. Bottom line is, anything is on the table.

 

Edit: Aaaaaaand of course the "Adolins Breaking" thread gets resurrected and I could have contributed there. lol oh well. 

Edited by Teegs
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3 hours ago, Teegs said:

What if he has to heal the cracks in Maya’s “soul”?

Maya is a spren, not a human being and, as such, she does not have a soul. She cannot be "healed" nor does she have "cracks" which Adolin can fill using a methodology inconsistent with everything we know of the Nahel Bond.

Adolin might not have been phased out by murdering Sadeas, but this is because he sincerely believes Sadeas deserved to be killed. Adolin doesn't know the truth about the Rift: Brandon made sure to include a passage where Adolin explains what he thinks he knows. Sadeas did it. Something awful happened and it was all Sadeas's fault, not Dalinar's.

A lot of mixed up within Adolin's mind. He also never grieved. He was always the responsible one. He speaks of how over-bearing those responsibilities are, how they prevent him from grieving, from being "normal". He may not have a mental illness, but it can be argued he is nowhere near as "perfectly minded" as readers make him out to be. 

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Adolin's soul isn't broken enough for the cracks needed. Yet. Books 6-10 different story. :)

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1 hour ago, tabitreader said:

Adolin's soul isn't broken enough for the cracks needed. Yet. Books 6-10 different story. :)

That's untrue. Not every radiant needs to be broken as Shallan or Kaladin. Everyone, is in some way broken. Life breaks us all, and Adolin is no exception. 

Now, granted, he's not going to bond Maya quite yet. But if he doesn't, i will eat my hat. 

Edited by Steeldancer
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13 hours ago, Govir said:

As for Lift

So, that's what happens with Lift and Nale at the end of Edgedancer:
 

Spoiler

 

"Say the Words", Wyndle said from beside her. "I've said them in my heart". But what good would they do? Too few people listened to anything other than their thoughts. But what good would listening do her here?

<skip>

"I will listen" Lift shouted "to those who have been ignored!" "What?" Darkness demanded "I heard what you said, Darkness! You were trying to prevent a Desolation. Look behind you! Deny what you are seeing!"

<skip>

But I will listen to those who are ignored, she thought. Even people like Darkness, whom I'd rather never have heard. Maybe this will help.

 

So yea, IMHO it is pretty clear that _this_ is where Lift reached the Third Ideal of Edgedancers. Other incidents laid the foundation, but this was the culmination.

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2 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

Now, granted, he's not going to bond Maya quite yet. But if he doesn't, i will eat my hat. 

If he doesn't bond Maya, I'll hold you to this

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1 hour ago, Shqueeves said:

If he doesn't bond Maya, I'll hold you to this

I just hope it's not lined with Aluminum...

that wouldn't be fun...

Also, what would happen if Lift ate Aluminum? I think she would implode.

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3 hours ago, Blazenella said:

I just hope it's not lined with Aluminum...

that wouldn't be fun...

Also, what would happen if Lift ate Aluminum? I think she would implode.

I love it, I don't think she would implode though. Her innate ability to turn her food into investiture would probably burn the metal, and subsequently cause her to starve. Probably would steal all her fat deposits. No calories for Lift = no stormlight!

I actually do think that Adolin will become a Edgdancer, either that or he will become something new. A Radiant who doesn't swear the oaths, and can only use the Shardblade

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I would like it, if adolin would reawaken Maya, but then turn into something completley new, because he is basically bonded to a zombie. Like something along the lines of being able to absorp investiture like a larkin or being able to absorb spren with his blade. So he could become a miniscule part of the solution for the fused.

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8 minutes ago, Krios said:

I would like it, if adolin would reawaken Maya, but then turn into something completley new, because he is basically bonded to a zombie. Like something along the lines of being able to absorp investiture like a larkin or being able to absorb spren with his blade. So he could become a miniscule part of the solution for the fused.

Uhh...that would also make him a monster. He would become a threat to all spren (even if unwillingly and still remains a nice guy about it), not to mention what would happen to Maya if she absorbed a bunch of other spren? And if he absorbed investiture, how would that affect his Radiant companions? Would he constantly absorb investiture (like Nightblood when it is drawn), or only when his blade is summoned?

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On 1/24/2018 at 7:26 AM, Isilel said:

So, that's what happens with Lift and Nale at the end of Edgedancer:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

"Say the Words", Wyndle said from beside her. "I've said them in my heart". But what good would they do? Too few people listened to anything other than their thoughts. But what good would listening do her here?

<skip>

"I will listen" Lift shouted "to those who have been ignored!" "What?" Darkness demanded "I heard what you said, Darkness! You were trying to prevent a Desolation. Look behind you! Deny what you are seeing!"

<skip>

But I will listen to those who are ignored, she thought. Even people like Darkness, whom I'd rather never have heard. Maybe this will help.

 

So yea, IMHO it is pretty clear that _this_ is where Lift reached the Third Ideal of Edgedancers. Other incidents laid the foundation, but this was the culmination.

Yep, you're right. I was going off of memory, but with that quote I agree with you now.

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On 1/23/2018 at 7:35 PM, maxal said:

Maya is a spren, not a human being and, as such, she does not have a soul. She cannot be "healed" nor does she have "cracks" which Adolin can fill using a methodology inconsistent with everything we know of the Nahel Bond.

Adolin might not have been phased out by murdering Sadeas, but this is because he sincerely believes Sadeas deserved to be killed. Adolin doesn't know the truth about the Rift: Brandon made sure to include a passage where Adolin explains what he thinks he knows. Sadeas did it. Something awful happened and it was all Sadeas's fault, not Dalinar's.

A lot of mixed up within Adolin's mind. He also never grieved. He was always the responsible one. He speaks of how over-bearing those responsibilities are, how they prevent him from grieving, from being "normal". He may not have a mental illness, but it can be argued he is nowhere near as "perfectly minded" as readers make him out to be. 

BS on Maya and spren not having souls. Standard realmatic theory says everything has a soul, a spiritual aspect.

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1 hour ago, Knight Oblivion said:

BS on Maya and spren not having souls. Standard realmatic theory says everything has a soul, a spiritual aspect.

True. But as humans are heavily physical beings, and not completely compose if investiture like spren, I very much doubt that Adolin is capable of "filling the cracks" in Maya. 

The bond should do that in itself. It was what was ripped out of the spren in the first place. 

Quote

Jerich

Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of [dead] Shardblades? If so is it possible to awaken a Shardblade if the bearer speaks the oaths of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

The status is... I would say not as similar as you're probably thinking, but it does have a similarity in that two bacteria causing a disease are both caused by a bacteria, so there is a similarity there.

I can imagine a sequence where a Shardblade would be reawakened, but I think it would be very difficult.

It's not the same that they're in the middle of a transition, like in Elantris.

Jerich

Oh, okay. So you have to actually... it'd be harder.

Brandon Sanderson

It'd be harder, yeah. It's not the same, they're not in the middle of a transition. They have had something ripped from them, and it's very painful and it's left them mostly mindless.

Jerich

So they have to have that something added back?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. So what you've got going on: the spren gain-- the bond lets them have sentience in the physical plane, like they can think and all these things, and when that was ripped away from them-- imagine... (this is a very bad metaphor, it's the first one coming to my head though): imagine you had wetwear, you had a head-jack or something like that, and someone just ripped it out of your head. 

Jerich

*stunned/horrified*

Oh.

Brandon Sanderson

Instead of surgically operating it out. Like that's what's happened, a piece of their soul's been ripped off.

source

Restoration of the bond should do what is needed, and in so doing, make Adolin an Edgedancer. 

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On 2018-01-24 at 9:28 PM, Alderant said:

(like Nightblood when it is drawn),

I like that we have gotten to a point where it´s theorized that Adolin could become the human counterpart to Nightblood. 

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I think that is highly unlikely and it seems kind of silly to me, tbh.

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I would like to connect this thread with the one discussing the origines of the lighteyes.

We have WoB, that part of the Lighteyes are natural mutation, but another part really has one or perhaps more Radiants in their family line.

This is perhaps the reason, why the Kholinfamily shows this affinity to attract spren - they are perhaps the descendants of the Radiants.

One of the points with reviving the dead spren is , that it would be possible with the original Radiant - I think one of his descendants can be second best.

Theme-change:

After OB a picture started to manifest in my head - an eye-connection - a look in the physical and the cognitive realm at the same time after the recreance:

With breaking the Nahelbond there were two results - the human bondmate ended up with the permanent lighteye-ness, whereas in the cognitive realm their spren ended up with "dead eyes".

Whatever was ripped out of the spren it seems to show in the eyes of both participiants.

IIRC we also don't have a clue, wether older Radiants were able to inherit the eyecolor to their children ( I would like to ask the author).

If this just started after the recreance, this could be the result of the part that was ripped of the spren.

Now - even with the Arcanum I'm seemingly unable to find WoBs - but I remember something like " to revive a dead spren you have to give something back..."

This sounds like the one reviving a shardblade have to give back the eyecolor/the eyes or something else in this line of thoughts.

Edited by hypatia
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Completely unrelated to any actual theorising, but I'm now imagining Adolin using all his duelling skills, but now ALSO being able to move around like an Edgedancer while doing it. That'd be NUTS.

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God, Adolin as an edgedancer would be beast. Finesse is his middle name (see dueling.)  Adolin is very much a dex based fighter (though he has a good str stat as well.)  He would take to being an edgedancer with grace.

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