Shallan's Relationship

[Natans]

I haven't read the whole thread but I'll stick my two pennies' worth in here anyway. I definitely caught hints of some feeling between Shallan and Kaladin so it's possible we could have a love triangle in the making. However, we're only two books in and a hell of a lot could happen. Any one of the three could get killed off, for one. Perhaps Shallan marries Adolin, he gets killed and once she's finished grieving she falls for Kaladin (as one example)

 

Kaladin definitely has feelings for her. I doubt that he'd act on them due to his bond with Syl and what happens when he betrays his honour.

 

I think that there no honor problem here. "I will not want the woman of my friend" don't look a ideal to me.

 

This will be more about don't be a bad friend or something. 

 

We know too few, like you said, we don't know how Brandon will play this card, and I sincerely hope that this don't turn in "twilight problem" I already had to much of a love triangle where the characters SHINE =)

Edited March 7, 2014 by Natans

[son et lumiere]

 

Kaladin and Shallan are both too broken to be able to have a healthy romantic relationship.

 

Ehh...I'm not a big believer in this line of thinking.  Sure, in some cases it's definitely a bad idea for two "broken" people to have a relationship together but in other cases they can work together to "fix" themselves and/or their broken aspects don't hinder them from having a "good" relationship.  It may not be perfect but such relationships can work.  Has Kal and Shallan's "brokenness" prevented them from interacting well with each other?  If no, what makes a good relationship between them so hard to accept especially if they mature a bit?  

 

 

Plus they have so much screen time, we'd have to read about their feels for each other every other chapter, which would be very annoying, not to mention not really how epic fantasies are.

 

This will only really be an issue if BS is an incomptent hack who will resort to such drivel.  I don't believe that BS is that bad so this is likely a moot point.  That said, I haven't read all of the works by BS so he may very well be like this. 

 

 

They can be really good friends, but they both need someone who had learn to outgrow the pain and the suffering they are going through.

 

Why do they need someone that had learned to outgrow the pain they are going through and why can't both learn to outgrow their pain by themselves or together?

[Aleksiel]

Ehh...I'm not a big believer in this line of thinking.  Sure, in some cases it's definitely a bad idea for two "broken" people to have a relationship together but in other cases they can work together to "fix" themselves and/or their broken aspects don't hinder them from having a "good" relationship.  It may not be perfect but such relationships can work.  Has Kal and Shallan's "brokenness" prevented them from interacting well with each other?  If no, what makes a good relationship between them so hard to accept especially if they mature a bit?  

 

 

This will only really be an issue if BS is an incomptent hack who will resort to such drivel.  I don't believe that BS is that bad so this is likely a moot point.  That said, I haven't read all of the works by BS so he may very well be like this. 

 

 

Why do they need someone that had learned to outgrow the pain they are going through and why can't both learn to outgrow their pain by themselves or together?

 

It would be better if they learned how to outgrow their brokenness on their own. When two damaged people start fixing each other, they start to depend on one another too much, lose themselves in the relationship, make the said relationship what leads their lives and sure, we can have them being two half of a relationship, but I'd rather read about two people that are whole, not just parts. This is what I think and I don't intend to try convincing anyone. You have your own view based on what you've lived and seen and I have my own experience on topic.

 

My other point was that a love triangle between Shallan, Adolin and Kal will be too huge part of the story since they are all big PoV characters. There's no way for this triangle to not take too much space, because their view points basically make 2/3 of the book and likely in later books as well.

[IllNsickly]

There is also that itty bitty issue of Kaladin being the one to kill Helaran. How will this come to light and how will Miss Shallan feel about it?

This is my issue with Shaladin. I have an itch that says Kaladin either Flys solo or somehow he and Jasnah develop a relationship.

However, all of my theories seem to have been smashed into paste with this book, so im probably wrong.

[Dalinar]

"Oh, but Shallan, my heart yearns for you!" Kaladin cries, holding his hands to his chest.

Shallan swooned.

"Alas, Kaladin Stormblessed, you killed my brother! I cannot marry you!"

"Leave, Kaladin, and never return," Adolin growls. "Shallan shall be my wife, and you may not involve yourself."

"But I love her!" Kaladin declares, kneeling. "Shallan, will you marry me?"
Shallan gasps. "B-b-but," she stammers.

Renarin walks in. Shallan squeals and runs off, hugging him. Adolin gapes and Kaladin cracks, bursting into tears. Syl sighs, and Pattern hums softly.

----------------

...Yeah. Soap opera style. I really hope this doesn't actually happen.

[Aminar]

"Oh, but Shallan, my heart yearns for you!" Kaladin cries, holding his hands to his chest.

Shallan swooned.

"Alas, Kaladin Stormblessed, you killed my brother! I cannot marry you!"

"Leave, Kaladin, and never return," Adolin growls. "Shallan shall be my wife, and you may not involve yourself."

"But I love her!" Kaladin declares, kneeling. "Shallan, will you marry me?"

Shallan gasps. "B-b-but," she stammers.

Renarin walks in. Shallan squeals and runs off, hugging him. Adolin gapes and Kaladin cracks, bursting into tears. Syl sighs, and Pattern hums softly.

----------------

...Yeah. Soap opera style. I really hope this doesn't actually happen.

I'd likely give up on the first half of the Stormlight Archive.

[Seerow]

"Oh, but Shallan, my heart yearns for you!" Kaladin cries, holding his hands to his chest.

Shallan swooned.

"Alas, Kaladin Stormblessed, you killed my brother! I cannot marry you!"

"Leave, Kaladin, and never return," Adolin growls. "Shallan shall be my wife, and you may not involve yourself."

"But I love her!" Kaladin declares, kneeling. "Shallan, will you marry me?"

Shallan gasps. "B-b-but," she stammers.

Renarin walks in. Shallan squeals and runs off, hugging him. Adolin gapes and Kaladin cracks, bursting into tears. Syl sighs, and Pattern hums softly.

----------------

...Yeah. Soap opera style. I really hope this doesn't actually happen.

 

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[son et lumiere]

It would be better if they learned how to outgrow their brokenness on their own. When two damaged people start fixing each other, they start to depend on one another too much, lose themselves in the relationship, make the said relationship what leads their lives and sure, we can have them being two half of a relationship, but I'd rather read about two people that are whole, not just parts. This is what I think and I don't intend to try convincing anyone. You have your own view based on what you've lived and seen and I have my own experience on topic.

 

My other point was that a love triangle between Shallan, Adolin and Kal will be too huge part of the story since they are all big PoV characters. There's no way for this triangle to not take too much space, because their view points basically make 2/3 of the book and likely in later books as well.

 

I agree, it would be better for them if they outgrow their brokenness on their own and they may very well do that before ever getting together romantically.  Still, I don't believe that it is wrong for them to depend on each other too much, to make that relationship lead their lives.  It isn't ideal but that's perfectly fine.  We aren't, though I'm probably wrong about this when it comes to some people, here to read about idyllic characters.  Kal and Shallan being broken can add spice to their relationship, make it interesting in ways that they might not be when they are "whole".  It'll be interesting to explore that I believe. 

 

It doesn't have to be a huge part of the story.  It can remain in the background and it may not even remain a love triangle for long.  The Adolin and Shallan "relationship" may end up breaking soon.  Even if it doesn't BS is not required to spend much time on it.  

 

 

There is also that itty bitty issue of Kaladin being the one to kill Helaran. How will this come to light and how will Miss Shallan feel about it?

 

It'll definitely be a source of conflict but it isn't insurmountable. 

[Aminar]

I agree, it would be better for them if they outgrow their brokenness on their own and they may very well do that before ever getting together romantically.  Still, I don't believe that it is wrong for them to depend on each other too much, to make that relationship lead their lives.  It isn't ideal but that's perfectly fine.  We aren't, though I'm probably wrong about this when it comes to some people, here to read about idyllic characters.  Kal and Shallan being broken can add spice to their relationship, make it interesting in ways that they might not be when they are "whole".  It'll be interesting to explore that I believe. 

 

It doesn't have to be a huge part of the story.  It can remain in the background and it may not even remain a love triangle for long.  The Adolin and Shallan "relationship" may end up breaking soon.  Even if it doesn't BS is not required to spend much time on it.  

 

 

It'll definitely be a source of conflict but it isn't insurmountable.

Someone killing a sibling is pretty damned insurmountable. I'd have trouble being in the same room as them, let alone liking them. Family is a powerful force and Shallan worked hard for hers... Given her past she might not hate Kaldin by the end of it.

[Aniki]

"Oh, but Shallan, my heart yearns for you!n cries, holding his hands to his chest.

Shallan swooned.

"Alas, Kaladin Stormblessed, you killed my brother! I cannot marry you!"

"Leave, Kaladin, and never return," Adolin growls. "Shallan shall be my wife, and you may not involve yourself."

"But I love her!" Kaladin declares, kneeling. "Shallan, will you marry me?"

Shallan gasps. "B-b-but," she stammers.

Renarin walks in. Shallan squeals and runs off, hugging him. Adolin gapes and Kaladin cracks, bursting into tears. Syl sighs, and Pattern hums softly.

----------------

...Yeah. Soap opera style. I really hope this doesn't actually happen.

When did our opinion of Brandon's writing devolve so much as to suggest he'd write something like this? Lol.

He's going to resolve this supposed 'triangle' with as little drama as possible and everyone will be embarrassed for making such a big deal about nothing.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Diagram

[Aleksiel]

I agree, it would be better for them if they outgrow their brokenness on their own and they may very well do that before ever getting together romantically.  Still, I don't believe that it is wrong for them to depend on each other too much, to make that relationship lead their lives.  It isn't ideal but that's perfectly fine.  We aren't, though I'm probably wrong about this when it comes to some people, here to read about idyllic characters.  

 

Well, if I wanted to read about such a dramatic love story, I wouldn't have picked up this series... I don't care how this issues resolves as long as it doesn't become someone's story arc or big part of it.

[Yamahako]

I don't see what Kaladin and Shallan can't just be great friends.  They shared deep secrets, and they obviously care for each other's well being, but we didn't see very much of the pure attraction that we saw between Adolin and Shallan.

Men and Women can be friends.  I think that solid male/female relationships that aren't romantic in nature are actually lacking in fantasy literature.

[Argent]

Adolin has to be my prime candidate. There were some hints about a Kaladin option, but not enough to justify Shallan abandoning Adolin, whom she is already pretty interested in. Now, if Adolin were to go do something really repulsive and she found out, then maybe sometime down the line our favorite bridgeboy would get his chance. But I Shallan doesn't strike me as the rebound relationship type of girl. So we'll see.

[Islington]

Shallan and Kaladin have too much potential bad blood. 

 

Shallan's order of Radiant is all about misdirection and deception, along with equivocation. Kaladin is all about forthright honor. The guy's basically Galahad after all his words (like the rest of the windrunner's creed is going to get less honorable and white knight). 

 

Shallan's brother was killed by Kal too, AND Kaladin (I would bet) respects Adolin too much to philander with his fiance (even if it IS Shallan's decision, Kaladin is just now starting to let people in, and Adolin is one of those people after the prison thing). 

[EC11]

I'm not a fan of love triangles so I hope nothing comes of that (but because each of these characters is actually interesting and not overtly fawning over Shallan it could be a fun exercise in its own right) but I do think that Shallan will end up with Adolin.

[son et lumiere]

Someone killing a sibling is pretty damned insurmountable. I'd have trouble being in the same room as them, let alone liking them. Family is a powerful force and Shallan worked hard for hers... Given her past she might not hate Kaldin by the end of it.

 

I don't believe that it is insurmountable.  Remember, love is a powerful and terrifying force.  It can drive people to face overwhelming odds to protect someone, murder someone for love, can drive kings to wage war.  It isn't too far-fetched to believe that over time love can make someone forgive something as terrible as the murder of a family member.  But yes, I'll admit that anything can happen.  Shallan may very well end up hating Kal.

[Gaussian]

It should be noted that there is a difference between being the cause of a sibling's death (not directed) and killing a sibling (directed).  The former is much easier to get over, as the killing wasn't directed to the sibling, although it would still be very difficult.  The latter is much more in the insurmountable category.

[Aminar]

Hate fueled by love is arguably a more powerful force than love, and losing a family member to someone elses action causes a whole lot of hate. Look at what it did to Shallan's father. It drove him to violent near murderous rage for years. I honestly see that being a source of major conflict coming up.

[Numb]

It feels like Kal killing Shallans brother may rather be a way of her speaking another truth instead of her landing up hating her. She may find out but she knows Kal is all about honour so she'll have to confront the truth about her brother leaving them etc.

[Birdman]

I think if she is able to look at the context of the situation, it was during a battle and her brother had rode down and killed injured members of Kaladin's squad, she will be able to get past it.

[Numb]

She might have to accept that her brother may not have been the person she thought he was as well. 

[Shards of Mist]

A couple of points.

 

First,  there will be no love triangle.  Kaladin won't be in Urithiru much in the next book, at least.  He, and now Jasnah, are the only two Radiants who can cover ground fast enough to open up the other portals before the rest of the world is destroyed.  I have a feeling he'll be spending most of the next book travelling, while Shallan spends most of it working with the other KR in Urithiru.  So, she'll likely have her feelings for Adolin worked out by the time she and Kalladin spend any significant time together.

 

Second,  Pattern and Syl won't get along.  For Shallan, that might not matter as she hates Pattern.  However, for Kaladin, it'll mean everything.  He's not ever going to do something to upset Syl again as he won't want to experience the depression and loneliness he felt when she left him.

 

Third, Shallan will find out about Kaladin killing her brother.  Even if her brother was at fault, it will make for huge problems with those two getting together.  Helaran was the man she wished her father would be.  The man she wished her other brothers would be.  The one who pushed her to pursue her biggest talent.  I don't see her getting romantically involved with the man who killed someone that important to her.  Also, Kaladin is all about honor.  The more he changes, the more the very nature of being honorable will be important to him.  I have a feeling he'll find out about Shallan's involvement with the Ghostbloods and it will turn his opinion of her very quickly.

 

So, IMO, there's no future for Shalladin.  I'll vote for Shadolin instead, even though I'm not certain on that, but it seems most probable of the choices we have here.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Shards of Mist

[Lugonn]

Shallan will find out about Kaladin killing her brother.

 

 

Shallan is not a complete idiot, she already knows and is repressing it. Coming to terms with uncomfortable truths is her entire character arc. If anything, it makes the relationship more likely.

[Shards of Mist]

Shallan is not a complete idiot, she already knows and is repressing it. Coming to terms with uncomfortable truths is her entire character arc. If anything, it makes the relationship more likely.

 

No, she isn't an idiot.  She also hasn't put it together yet or we would've been shown her repressing it in one of her viewpoints while they were in the Chasm together.  

[Terra of Roshar]

In response to the people complaining about Kaladin/Shallan eating up too much time since they're the two biggest POVs, I don't think that would happen.

 

Mistborn Spoilers

Vin and Elend were the two biggest POVs in WoA and HoA, and their relationship didn't take over the story. I imagine a love triangle could be handled with similar tact. Also, as others have said, with Kaladin preparing to leave immediately, there's a good chance that Shallan and Adolin could break up while he's away, avoiding the seemingly-dreaded love triangle. They could also begin to get over some of their brokenness during this time apart, meaning they wouldn't be using each other as crutches so much if/when they did get together. Not saying any of this necessarily will happen, just throwing out some possible solutions to problems people have raised. I also agree with what several people before me have said about the relative depths of Shallan's interactions with Kaladin and Adolin. Plus they were just plain adorable.